Medicare for all - fixing US healthcare

[rxlawdude]

Not just a problem in Canada, same everywhere.

California had a bill that died last year that would have provided a way to donate unused chemotherapy drugs to other patients. Injectable chemotherapy drugs are a whole different ballgame due to stability and sterility issues.

 

[eevee-fan]

California had a bill that died last year that would have provided a way to donate unused chemotherapy drugs to other patients. Injectable chemotherapy drugs are a whole different ballgame due to stability and sterility issues.

It's ridiculous the excuses the phama companies make... if the unit is the most requested, how about make a half-sized on for those who need less. Sigh...

 

[rxlawdude]

It's ridiculous the excuses the phama companies make... if the unit is the most requested, how about make a half-sized on for those who need less. Sigh...

Don't get me started on pharma. That's a big part of the ethics courses I teach. But to your point, they will frequently price the half-size vial at exactly the same price as the full-size vial. (Of course, that price is what the full-size vial would cost in the first place.)

 

[Big Dog]

Point is that unexpected medical expenses are BY FAR the #1 cause of personal bankruptcies in the US.

Point is that this doesn’t occur in ANY developed country.

Point is we can/should fix this embarrassment.

Point is that NO ONE should go bankrupt due to illness or injury. This doesn’t happen in civilized countries. The US should join the civilized and developed world.

Your first point is incorrect. There is limited evidence that "unexpected medical expenses" are the #1 cause of BK. Yes, they contribute to BK, but they do not necessarily cause it.

Agree with Points 2 - 4.

 

[nwdiver]

Your first point is incorrect. There is limited evidence that "unexpected medical expenses" are the #1 cause of BK. Yes, they contribute to BK, but they do not necessarily cause it.

Agree with Points 2 - 4.

.... so if medical expenses aren't the #1 cause what is?

5 Reasons why people go Bankrupt. Medical expenses are >60% according to Harvard.

Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall.

Staggering medical bills are the biggest driver of personal bankruptcies in the US.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy; I'll give you 1 guess...

'Merca.... you're broken.

If you want to be uselessly pedantic you could argue it's the lack of winning the lottery that 'caused' the bankruptcy. But bankruptcy likely would not have occurred regardless of the wealth of their parents or lottery winnings if these unfortunate people lived in a civilized country. Which countries health system should we adopt? France? Lots to choose from and they're all better than the US.............


This is 'merca and it's absolutely pathetic. How.... how did we let things get so bad?????????????

Dad in Kansas Jailed Over Medical Debt from Son’s Leukemia Treatments and Wife’s Seizures

 

[nwdiver]

Now all the people that don't get COVID-19 testing will be paying for the people that do... how is that fair? Isn't the free market supposed to determine how much infectious diseases ravage the population?

New York insurers ordered to to waive costs associated with coronavirus testing

 

[reddy]

Pretty much sums up our 'system'.

 

[eevee-fan]

Oh, what great advice, review your health insurance policy. I guess if one were trying to game ACA, better buy a policy now. Sigh...

 

[nwdiver]

Oh, what great advice, review your health insurance policy. I guess if one were trying to game ACA, better buy a policy now. Sigh...

Renuevo mi pasaporte. Si me enfermo, iré a México. Atención mejor y más asequible que el desastre en los Estados Unidos.

 

[Big Dog]

Now all the people that don't get COVID-19 testing will be paying for the people that do... how is that fair? Isn't the free market supposed to determine how much infectious diseases ravage the population?

New York insurers ordered to to waive costs associated with coronavirus testing

The actual test itself is being paid for by CDC and it not very costly anyway. The big costs to the State insurers will be the visit to the facility for an exam and testing: office visit, the visit to the ER, clinic?

Regardless, the devils in the details. NYC insurers will just come back next year and ask for a higher rate increase to recoup any losses from COVID.


As an aside, Medicare for All (and Bernie) took a big hit yesterday. Both are all-but done for this election cycle. Better luck in four years.

 

[nwdiver]

As an aside, Medicare for All (and Bernie) took a big hit yesterday. Both are all-but done for this election cycle. Better luck in four years.

I keep asking... still no one has answered. Which countries system should we adopt since we can't agree on Medicare for all? Spain? Lots to chose from and they're ALL better than the disaster in the US.

 

[reddy]

The actual test itself is being paid for by CDC and it not very costly anyway. The big costs to the State insurers will be the visit to the facility for an exam and testing: office visit, the visit to the ER, clinic?

Regardless, the devils in the details. NYC insurers will just come back next year and ask for a higher rate increase to recoup any losses from COVID.


As an aside, Medicare for All (and Bernie) took a big hit yesterday. Both are all-but done for this election cycle. Better luck in four years.

I've avoided the politics here.

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that nobody is seriously addressing this problem.

No matter who wins in November, our #1 problem as a country is healthcare. Spending 18% and going up on healthcare , and getting results that rank us as #50 is not a sustainable scenario.

( Bloomberg - Are you a robot? ) .

This reduces the standard of living for everyone here, damages our competitiveness in the marketplace, and exposes all of us to a higher risk of death and disability.

If we are paying Cadillac rates for healthcare, we should get Cadillac care. But, we're not.

The current administration has done nothing to address the problem. It would be better to act on it now, rather than waiting for a full on revolt.

 

[Big Dog]

^^maybe we're getting too much of a good thing, reddy! (sarcasm)

Some of that chart is due to deaths by drug opiates and OD's. (too much drugs?) Other is due to obesity, hypertension and other lifestyle conditions. Obesity is on track to be 50% of the US population, highest in western world; most of the obese already have excellent coverage and medical care. We are obese bcos we eat too much (Frappucinos?) and exercise too little. Free health care is not gonna change those lifestyle choices.

 

[nwdiver]

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that nobody is seriously addressing this problem.

 

[Big Dog]

I keep asking... still no one has answered. Which countries system should we adopt since we can't agree on Medicare for all? Spain? Lots to chose from and they're ALL better than the disaster in the US.

Canada. But note, we could get cheaper total coverage today by just cutting back payments to Big Pharma. Many scripts are much much cheaper in Canada and Mexico due to price controls; the US could immediately do the same. (But we don't have the political will to go there yet. Just the oppostite -- the 1 or 2 price controls in ObamaCare were repealed by bipartisan vote.)

 

[reddy]

Canada. But note, we could get cheaper total coverage today by just cutting back payments to Big Pharma. Many scripts are much much cheaper in Canada and Mexico due to price controls; the US could immediately do the same. (But we don't have the political will to go there yet. Just the oppostite -- the 1 or 2 price controls in ObamaCare were repealed by bipartisan vote.)

Your arguments are dubious, as

^^maybe we're getting too much of a good thing, reddy! (sarcasm)

Some of that chart is due to deaths by drug opiates and OD's. (too much drugs?) Other is due to obesity, hypertension and other lifestyle conditions. Obesity is on track to be 50% of the US population, highest in western world; most of the obese already have excellent coverage and medical care. We are obese bcos we eat too much (Frappucinos?) and exercise too little. Free health care is not gonna change those lifestyle choices.

Even if your arguments did account for the excess deaths (perhaps add gun deaths in there too, did you forget that one) , why are we paying almost double the costs for worse care?

Drugs alone don't account for it.

Your persistent failure to even acknowledge the problem is not unlike the current administration.

It's like an addict. The first part of treatment is getting them to realize that they DO have a problem.

 

[Leeclanual]

TDS Stage 4

Your persistent failure to even acknowledge the problem is not unlike the current administration.

It's like an addict. The first part of treatment is getting them to realize that they DO have a problem.

 

[Big Dog]

Your arguments are dubious, as


Even if your arguments did account for the excess deaths (perhaps add gun deaths in there too, did you forget that one) , why are we paying almost double the costs for worse care?

Drugs alone don't account for it.

Your persistent failure to even acknowledge the problem.....

Huh? With two degrees in public health, I spent 20+ years in health care economics in a former life......the problem is obvious, and so is the solution. (Only a little more complex than the solution to the Social Security shortfall.)

Regardless of whether I could write a dissertation on the problem (the cost disconnect actually started in WWII), and propose a solution If I was health care czar (similar to Canada), my point is two fold: 1) lets not use data points inappropriately (bcos any smart analyst can chew the up easily) -- instead its obvious to all that approaching 20% of GDP is not economically sustainable; but more importantly, 2) the US ain't ready for it yet. If we were ready to address the problem, Bernie would have won a lot more states yesterday for his signature issue.

Just like we aren't yet ready to fix SS, even tho that is a much easier fix. IMO, both problems will have to become more of a crises before the political will arises......

 

[ohmman]

I've avoided the politics here.

What everyone seems to be ignoring is that nobody is seriously addressing this problem.

No matter who wins in November, our #1 problem as a country is healthcare. Spending 18% and going up on healthcare , and getting results that rank us as #50 is not a sustainable scenario.

( Bloomberg - Are you a robot? ) .

This reduces the standard of living for everyone here, damages our competitiveness in the marketplace, and exposes all of us to a higher risk of death and disability.

If we are paying Cadillac rates for healthcare, we should get Cadillac care. But, we're not.

View attachment 518041
The current administration has done nothing to address the problem. It would be better to act on it now, rather than waiting for a full on revolt.

I don't much care to chime in on this discussion, but I did think this automatically generated URL summary on your post was funny (well, until he dropped out):

 

[reddy]

Huh? With two degrees in public health, I spent 20+ years in health care economics in a former life......the problem is obvious, and so is the solution. (Only a little more complex than the solution to the Social Security shortfall.)

Regardless of whether I could write a dissertation on the problem (the cost disconnect actually started in WWII), and propose a solution If I was health care czar (similar to Canada), my point is two fold: 1) lets not use data points inappropriately (bcos any smart analyst can chew the up easily) -- instead its obvious to all that approaching 20% of GDP is not economically sustainable; but more importantly, 2) the US ain't ready for it yet. If we were ready to address the problem, Bernie would have won a lot more states yesterday for his signature issue.

Just like we aren't yet ready to fix SS, even tho that is a much easier fix. IMO, both problems will have to become more of a crises before the political will arises......

Sorry, but I've got you beat on both the degrees, and the experience. Good try though. I doubt anyone here cares about the degrees.

Since you have those public health degrees, you should understand that public health, and population health, are two vastly different topics.

Perhaps my experience is more current, and relevant.

In any event, I accept that you do have a hint of understanding, but are unwilling to do better.

Cheers.