Out of this two 2016 P90 D, which one will you pick?

[ShaolinEV]

Car 1 (Silver) - Warranty started June 2016, only 25k miles, have a few rock chips at hood, has sunroof (trouble), no red painted caliper, MCU 1, beige interior which I like.

Car 2 (Silver) - Warranty started Sep 2016, 82k miles, no obvious rock chips, no sunroof, red painted caliper, MCU 2, black interior, Ludicrous mode.

Car 2 is like 4K cheaper, I am torn but leaning Car 2. My reason is the 8 years battery warranty is unlimited miles anyway, don't want sunroof, red caliper is cool, Ludicrous mode is awesome. What will you guys pick?

 

[TSteve]

I feel like even with the higher miles, I'd pick car 2. I really like the idea of the sunroof, but I'm not sure how much I'd actually use it. I'm also a sucker for performance.

Any large difference in total range? MCU 2 is also nice.

Tough call.

 

[dannycamps]

#2 mostly without a doubt - but let me explain.

1. Older Teslas with low mileage may not have encountered certain issues that other cars would have already faced and had repaired under warranty (e.g. drive unit replacement). A 2016 with 25k is not unheard of but I would no way buy a 2012 with 25k miles for example.

2. The MCU 1 to MCU 2 upgrade is almost a requirement so you'd need to spend at least $1500 ($2000 to keep FM/XM radio) so that adds to the difference in price between the two cars.

3. A general rule is to always go for more range but TBH, with the 90D battery, the range between the two will probably be pretty close.

Are there any other differences between the cars (e.g. subzero package, premium audio, etc..)?

 

[PCMc]

Warranty start date is not as important for me than build date, especially relative to Car 1. That's not too far after when the refresh front fascia was introduced and I know when I purchased my mid-2016 MS90D (ordered May 2016, delivered June 30, 2016) there we a number of the original front fascia 2016's still around and being sold. If Car 1 is actually the pre-refresh, then the price difference is even more baffling to me.

You've also said nothing around other items like whether both have autopilot actually purchased/activated or the interior upgrade/convenience features package, cold weather package (rear seat heaters), air vs. coil suspension, etc. If all those items are the same between the two cars, then clearly I'd say Car 1 is overpriced relative to Car 2, or there's some other factor about Car 2 that is reducing it's value. If both are private sales from original owner than unlimited free supercharging would carry over. However if either car has been resold, either trade-in back to Tesla or via auction at some time, then the unlimited free supercharging privilege may have been removed.

 

[ShaolinEV]

Digged into it more, both cars are from used Tesla specific dealership and with the new design 2016.5.

Car 1 - Glossy Obeche wood decor, premium upgrade, autopilot convenience features, ultra high fidelity sound, smart suspension.

Car 2 - Premium upgrade, subzero package, autopilot convenience features, ultra high fidelity sound, smart suspension and unlimited supercharging transferrable.

I think Car 2 is a no brainer the more I thought about it.

 

[KalJoMoS]

Autopilot convenience feature does not mean activated Autosteering (AP1). On both car’s it needs to be paid for Tesla to activate that feature.

 

[PCMc]

Autopilot convenience feature does not mean activated Autosteering (AP1). On both car’s it needs to be paid for Tesla to activate that feature.

The wording of Autopilot Convenience Feature is actual wording which Tesla did use in the mid 2016 timeframe to refer to the purchased option to activate the AP1 autopilot feature.

My original May 2016 order agreement for my MS90D lists Autopilot Convenience Feature as a $2500 paid option. There is no other item listed to indicate that I did purchase autopilot software being enabled.

My final delivery documents provided when my car was delivered at the end of June 2016 lists this exact same item simply as Autopilot as the $2500 paid option.

I would agree, since both cars are used and at least one already is showing the free supercharging having been potentially removed, the most conservative approach would be to get photos of the Controls screen to see the entries to enable autosteer, etc. But I would not immediately make the conclusion that the reference to a feature of autopilot convenience features does not mean AP1 has been purchased and activated.

 

[JimmyB]

A couple of observations from the dealer's website:

- Car 2 also appears to have a sunroof (pic 7)
- Both cars have autosteer enabled - pic 11 for car 1, pic 13 for car 2

Agree that Car 2 is the one to go for here. Get an XCare warranty and enjoy!

 

[ShaolinEV]

Went to test drive this morning, the car has some issues. The main one is the back end of the car making noise at low speed and wear issues. Sale person talked to the tech later, they are aware of it, it is a "link" that needs to be replaced and the part just arrived.

Another interesting thing is the car shows 272 miles of ideal range at 90% charge, I thought it is rated at 270 full charge? New battery installed?

 

[JimmyB]

Ideal range or rated range? Ideal range is massively unrealistic. But I also thought MCU2 cars no longer showed ideal range? Or perhaps it was got rid of in a software update, I can't remember which. Either way, take a look at the sticker on the battery to be 100% sure what you're getting.

 

[ShaolinEV]

I had a Model 3 performance minus that got totaled. I understand the range is unrealistic and there's no rated/ideal range in my model 3.

But if the car shows 272 ideal range at 90% charge, that translate to 300 miles at 100% and that's more than 270 miles new? Where can I find the sticker on the battery? Btw, it shows 218 miles at rated range.

 

[davidc18]

218 is the best you can expect. the 90s had some steep battery losses. the biggest issue is max charging speed which you should check before you buy (if possible).

 

[ucmndd]

I had a Model 3 performance minus that got totaled. I understand the range is unrealistic and there's no rated/ideal range in my model 3.

But if the car shows 272 ideal range at 90% charge, that translate to 300 miles at 100% and that's more than 270 miles new? Where can I find the sticker on the battery? Btw, it shows 218 miles at rated range.

"ideal" range was always more than EPA rated.

Don't use it. For anything. The only figure that matters is rated.

 

[PCMc]

But if the car shows 272 ideal range at 90% charge, that translate to 300 miles at 100% and that's more than 270 miles new? Where can I find the sticker on the battery? Btw, it shows 218 miles at rated range.

Ideal Range is 1.25 * Rated Range. Or done the other way, Rated Range is 0.80 * Ideal Range. That's exactly the ratio which you saw when you switched from Ideal to Rated with 272 miles Ideal equating to 218 miles Rated Range.

Rated Range is what corresponds to the quoted range by Tesla. I don't recall precisely what was stated for the P90D in mid 2016, but my 90D was 294 rated, so a value of 270 when new for a P90D sounds about right. If the car is showing 218 miles rated range at 90%, then that equates to 242 miles at 100% SOC, so relative to a new rated range of 270 would imply about 10-11% degradation. That's probably not to unreasonable for a mid 2016 90 pack.

For reference, my June built MS90D tracks around about 8.5-9% apparent degradation based upon tracking my displayed rated range as captured at the end of my charging sessions. I'm right at 69k miles total. From a total number of charging sessions, I'm right at 80% on Lvl2 AC with 20% from supercharging during long range travel. When I look at it from an added energy as based upon the rated miles added at each charge this ratio is more biased towards supercharging, 55% AC and 45% supercharging. That just mirrors about half my total miles traveled being long range trips.

Good luck on your decision. I would say from everything you've posted that Car #2 seems to be better value if you can work through that there's not some other factor like prior collision damage or pending repair issues on the car.

 

[ShaolinEV]

Bought it, they are dying chrome delete for me and i an going to pick it up the next couple days.

They change out some fade out window buttons, install the missing power seat button and change out the sway bar link the same day. Car drive super fine after it was fixed. I think for 57k, it is a bargain.

 

[JimmyB]

Congratulations and enjoy! Does seem like a pretty good price in today's market.

 

[splffgates]

@ShaolinEV congrats on the purchase! Did your car come with unlimited supercharging or full self driving by chance? Trying to get a gauge for the market. I'm eyeing a normal P90 with both those things and 100k mile for the same price you paid.

 

[ShaolinEV]

@ShaolinEV congrats on the purchase! Did your car come with unlimited supercharging or full self driving by chance? Trying to get a gauge for the market. I'm eyeing a normal P90 with both those things and 100k mile for the same price you paid.

It has unlimited supercharging, autopilot but no full self driving. I don't think the 2016 can do full self driving. not sure.
Ludicrous mode is nut, I am coming from model 3 performance and this is definitely faster.

 

[PCMc]

I don't think the 2016 can do full self driving. not sure.

Cars built up through about mid-Oct 2016 use the AP1 autopilot system which uses hardware from MobilEye. It has only one forward looking camera and forward looking radar. AP1 does radar assisted cruise control and auto steer functionality. I will do automate lane changes which are initiated by the driving turning on the turn signal. It will not do navigate on autopilot or automated lane changes without the driver having to initiate via the turn signals. AP1 does have a basic summon capability which will pull the car straight forward or backwards for upwards of about 20ish feet (I forget the exact value).

Any of the various forms of FSD, including navigate on autopilot, these are only applicable for cars after mid-October 2016.

Talking about a 2016 Model S gets a bit complicated due to three major variants of the car in that calendar year. The old black oval nose built up through mid/late April 2016. The refresh front end, but still with AP1 autopilot capability from late April until mid-Oct 2016. And then the first AP2, 8-camera Tesla vision autopilot/FSD capable cars being built after mid-Oct 2016. That ignores all the minor variants of changes in battery packs, rear cup holders, introduction of solid glass roof versus metal roof or pano roof (openable sunroof glass variant), etc., etc., etc..

 

[dannycamps]

I don't think the 2016 can do full self driving. not sure.

Easiest way to tell is to look at the side markers on the front fenders near the door. If it's a solid silver piece with the Tesla logo, then it's AP1 and cannot do FSD. If there is a camera there, it has minimally AP 2.0 and can be upgraded to FSD.