Performance Brakes and Lowered suspension

[lancia delta]

Any details around these which is offered as a free option? If not any speculations?

Is there a change in suspension type or components or is it just lowered?

Similarly for brakes, any details available?

 

[lancia delta]

I assume some of you must have gone with this option though it reduces the range but no additional cost. Any thoughts?

 

[Kuro Houou]

I still have this "free" option selected.. While I don't care about the 21" rims or the lowered suspension.. better brakes are always a win in my book. I can easily change out wheels/tires in 30 minutes, but not suspension bits. Also if its anything like the model 3 lowered suspension.. its only 1cm.. so not a deal breaker.. still would rather have it left alone.

 

[lancia delta]

I assume lot of folks ordered the performance option without knowing what they are

 

[DrSmile]

I can tell you that I definitely would not get the P3D+ again after buying my wife the P3D-. For everyday use the P3D- is just better. How much are 21" tires?

 

[Shayne]

I can tell you that I definitely would not get the P3D+ again after buying my wife the P3D-. For everyday use the P3D- is just better. How much are 21" tires?

Please elaborate how the P3D- is better at everyday? The 21" tires are 100 to 200 more than common tires which is no big deal since they are summers, will last awhile and for those that purchase the performance vehicle. How many times do you switch rubber in the life time of your vehicles? I see no reason to purchase a performance without performance upgrades especially now it is not just a 2000 upgrade from long range but the same as a performance. It would be the performance or the AWD LR. What do you get if you do not upgrade to performance parts that is so good for everyday compared to the LR? Why should people pay the additional cash and not get the brakes, suspension, better pedals etc. The stealth performance may be an AWD LR which is software unlocked. That would be one expensive toggle.

 

[feigen66]

As an engineer, whenever someone said "it's just a software toggle" really got into me as if software is free and cheap.

This is not JavaScript that runs the web. If you have tuned the ECU on an ICE car, you would understand that it's more than software toggle. A good ECU tuning cost easily as much even it's technically "software" update.

 

[ppc750]

Please elaborate how the P3D- is better at everyday? The 21" tires are 100 to 200 more than common tires which is no big deal since they are summers, will last awhile and for those that purchase the performance vehicle. How many times do you switch rubber in the life time of your vehicles? I see no reason to purchase a performance without performance upgrades especially now it is not just a 2000 upgrade from long range but the same as a performance. It would be the performance or the AWD LR. What do you get if you do not upgrade to performance parts that is so good for everyday compared to the LR? Why should people pay the additional cash and not get the brakes, suspension, better pedals etc. The stealth performance may be an AWD LR which is software unlocked. That would be one expensive toggle.

I’ve been on the fence between the performance - and + as well. Switched my order at least twice now.
As far as I’ve researched and seen (not first hand experience) here are the reasons not to get the upgrades:

1) more likely to pop a tire and wheel over a pothole at high speeds with the smaller 35 series tire vs 45 that’s on the 19”
2) staggered tire setup means no tire rotations and the tires will likely last under 20k miles. I drive 26k miles a year. I would likely swap tires every year if I get the performance +.
3) the bigger brakes will likely not cause the car to brake any faster than the regular brakes on the first hard stop. Meaning if you’re driving normally and not on the track where you are heating them up significantly. The tire compound are likely to be the limiting factor in why the performance + will stop faster than the performance - . You could always get the stickier compound if you so choose later to match the stopping distance.
4) loss of 35 miles of range due to stickier tires.
5) more tire choices available on the 19” wheel vs the 21”. The 21” has only the pilot sport4s vs 23 different tires for the 19”.

reasons to get the performance +:

1) better suspension tuned for more aggressive driving? Not sure on this one as all we know is it is “lowered suspension”
2) looks better
3) safer due to the stickier compound tire offered at initial purchase. At least safer stopping distance and accident avoidance wise? Probably insignificant for accident avoidance but at least a few feet due to stickier compound stopping distance.
4) better pedals. Are they just slip ons or do the performance + models get actually different pedals altogether?
5) you could always sell the performance upgrade wheels and tires and out something else on that’s fits over the performance brakes.

 

[DrSmile]

The reasons I like my wife's M3P- more:

1) Range suffers significantly with the 20" wheels and tires. Not sure if the wheel or the tire is to blame.
2) Cost of having to buy a spare set of wheels and A/S or Winter tires here in the snowy Northeast. My rear tires wear pretty fast, but I guess that's due to driving style.
3) I rotate and swap my own wheels but it's annoying to do twice a year.when you have other things to do (like drive the kids to soccer practice).
4) The ride is louder and rougher, not sure if it's the wheels or the suspension, my guess is the wheels.
5) The brakes are really not necessary. I painted the calipers red and it looks 99% as good as my M3P+ (the M3P- has the 19 inch rims, identical in look to the M3P+). Ditto with the pedals.
6) Potholes kill 20" rims

If you're going to track or autocross the car, it might be worth the package, but even then you could probably get better bang for your buck by installing aftermarket brakes and 19 inch rims with R compound tires. Hoosiers are going to be hard to beat with Michelins.

Lastly you're buying an SUV. If you're tracking an SUV you need to rethink your car choice.

 

[zedtava]

Okay, so I am buying a PMY+ for girlfriend who has a long commute. My plan is to sell the 21 and get 20s. The 20s on the Y have a sidewall larger than the 20s on the M3, so I don't think the pothole thing necessarily translates. Why wouldn't you select free upgrades and modify after (possibly pocketing some money from 21s). Also, I heard that they are making all seasons for the 21s.

 

[Shayne]

I’ve been on the fence between the performance - and + as well. Switched my order at least twice now.
As far as I’ve researched and seen (not first hand experience) here are the reasons not to get the upgrades:

1) more likely to pop a tire and wheel over a pothole at high speeds with the smaller 35 series tire vs 45 that’s on the 19” OK how many blow out have you had on your roads? Been driving over 40 years here and I would not call our frost bit plowed roads perfect. Our pot holes are not normally on high speed roads but they truly exists and a couple if you hit them with a cybertruck and it may cause damage. That we call unlucky.
2) staggered tire setup means no tire rotations and the tires will likely last under 20k miles. I drive 26k miles a year. I would likely swap tires every year if I get the performance +. depends on tire tread and if uni or bi directional
3) the bigger brakes will likely not cause the car to brake any faster than the regular brakes on the first hard stop. Meaning if you’re driving normally and not on the track where you are heating them up significantly. The tire compound are likely to be the limiting factor in why the performance + will stop faster than the performance - . You could always get the stickier compound if you so choose later to match the stopping distance. OK heavy duty does normally mean something. Longevity is normally included.
4) loss of 35 miles of range due to stickier tires. Estimate only and could be more or could be less but SC's are our friend and only at -25 to - 30 oC (-22F) this starts to be a factor for me. Then 20" rims will be on and will still be a factor.
5) more tire choices available on the 19” wheel vs the 21”. The 21” has only the pilot sport4s vs 23 different tires for the 19”. If there is money to be made they will make them. So get the P+ so we have more demand ;-)

reasons to get the performance +:

1) better suspension tuned for more aggressive driving? Not sure on this one as all we know is it is “lowered suspension”
2) looks better
3) safer due to the stickier compound tire offered at initial purchase. At least safer stopping distance and accident avoidance wise? Probably insignificant for accident avoidance but at least a few feet due to stickier compound stopping distance.
4) better pedals. Are they just slip ons or do the performance + models get actually different pedals altogether?
5) you could always sell the performance upgrade wheels and tires and out something else on that’s fits over the performance brakes.
6) Easier resell
7) Top tier model including power train. As noted before they most likely bin all parts as I believe they are OCing geeks like some of us. There is no way that they strive for performance and speed like they do without being true geeks. Bin chips, boards, motors, batteries. Run it with liquid nitrogen cooling to see what speed you can get out of a intel cpu ;-). This is the main factor for my performance upgrade not speed but top tier components. I could be wrong but Elon noted they bin motors with 2x the break in. The speed does not go up because you put larger brakes or wider tires on it and I "think" it is not just a software toggle? Until we know what is in the P- 19" compared to the true P your guess is as good as mine. I am fairly sure the P will not have inferior parts to that of a P-.

In blue above.

 

[Shayne]

As an engineer, whenever someone said "it's just a software toggle" really got into me as if software is free and cheap.

This is not JavaScript that runs the web. If you have tuned the ECU on an ICE car, you would understand that it's more than software toggle. A good ECU tuning cost easily as much even it's technically "software" update.

M.Eng here and we are sorry we take you software engineers for granted. Did not mean to hurt your feelings.

 

[zedtava]

Quick question - will the 19s, 20s, 21s have the same staggered tire setup?

 

[jimmym1981]

Quick question - will the 19s, 20s, 21s have the same staggered tire setup?

Only the 21” P will have the staggered setup.

 

[jimmym1981]

Here is my thing. Why NOT get the Performance with the options. You could easily sell the wheels (people are already begging for them) and make money back. Tires are minimal and you can swap out the staggered setup if you want.

Also, looking ahead, no way would I or a lot of people buy a used “Stealth” as we call them now for the same price as the full Performance. These will depreciate the most on the used market. Tesla has the AWD with Acceleration Boost for $2k more which fills this void.

As for potholes, the 255mm tires between the 19” and 21” are about .5in difference so really you’re not gaining that much more. I’m OK with a 20ish mile deduction for a car with parts that are worth more and I can get the range back very easily.

 

[zedtava]

Here is my thing. Why NOT get the Performance with the options. You could easily sell the wheels (people are already begging for them) and make money back. Tires are minimal and you can swap out the staggered setup if you want.

Also, looking ahead, no way would I or a lot of people buy a used “Stealth” as we call them now for the same price as the full Performance. These will depreciate the most on the used market. Tesla has the AWD with Acceleration Boost for $2k more which fills this void.

As for potholes, the 255mm tires between the 19” and 21” are about .5in difference so really you’re not gaining that much more. I’m OK with a 20ish mile deduction for a car with parts that are worth more and I can get the range back very easily.

So there is no issue switching staggered 21s with non-staggered 20s?

 

[iustin]

As for potholes, the 255mm tires between the 19” and 21” are about .5in difference so really you’re not gaining that much more. I’m OK with a 20ish mile deduction for a car with parts that are worth more and I can get the range back very easily.

Between 19 and 21 there are two inches diameter change, so 1 inch radius change. Not 0.5 - that’s between 19 and 20.

 

[jimmym1981]

So there is no issue switching staggered 21s with non-staggered 20s?

I do not see why not. It’s usually just a slightly wider on the back. When we finally get some in hand I’m sure they will confirm the rim size.

 

[jimmym1981]

Between 19 and 21 there are two inches diameter change, so 1 inch radius change. Not 0.5 - that’s between 19 and 20.

You are correct. My mistake. It’s odd because almost every tire calculator has between .75-1.10 difference.

 

[feigen66]

According to tirerack, Model Y has 255 front and 275 rear. Isn't rear taller than the front in this case (not just wider) ?