Serious security issue with phone as a key

[N5329K]

It's kind of unfair to compare Tesla's phone-as-key approach with a Prius fob. Just as it would be unfair to compare Tesla's build quality with Toyota's. The Prius fob has been around a while, is seamless, ultrareliable, and stable. Leave it in your pocket. Walk up and the door is unlocked by the time your fingers touch the handle. Walk away and the car is locked. No buttons to press, no fingers to cross. No software updates are going to leave you standing in the rain or sheepishly explaining to friends to wait a moment while you dig out a card. They really nailed the engineering on the Prius fob. I really hope Tesla's (when it comes out) is as good.
Robin

 

[daniel]

I think it is fair to compare a fob (dedicated, single-purpose device) to the phone-as-key concept (trying to make fifty different kinds of phones, each of which can be running any of a half dozen different operating systems, perform reliably as a car key, using a notoriously unreliable wireless protocol, Bluetooth).

The phone will never be a reliable key because it is not a single device built to interact with a specific car.

In addition, there is no simple way to open the frunk on the Model 3. Either you pull your phone out, unlock it, scroll to the proper screen, and press the Open Frunk button, which is a colossal pain in the ass, or you open the car and lean way in to press the icon on the screen, which is almost as much of a pain in the ass.

 

[Kichwas]

The FOB is yet another bulky object one has to carry around.

We all basically have either a wallet or a phone in a case that holds credit cards on hand.

Very few of us are without our phones for long. I walk down the street these days and half the people are holding a phone to their face.

The other half are not phone junkies... and tend to have a wallet...

So basically we’re all likely covered.

The only risk is the folks who are not phone junkies and also don’t use a wallet. Such people also often don’t have pockets on their clothes so a fob wouldn’t be any better for them. Just heavier.

The card is super light. I could see my wife putting it in her handbag and not feeling the weight at all, unlike the super bulky fob of her catering truck...

And the app on a phone... is probably a lot easier to deal with than the pain of losing a key fob... ever had to get your key fob replaced by a disinterested dealer?

 

[ngogas]

This thread is stupidly nuts.

 

[Twiglett]

This thread is stupidly nuts.

Yep
Folks leaving $800 computing devices lying around and complaining that someone else might walk off with that and $60K of car.
Personally I look after my stuff and take responsibility for it.
Also not looking to blame someone else for my mistake.

 

[JeffK]

Folks leaving $800 computing devices lying around and complaining that someone else might walk off with that and $60K of car.

Exactly and that was a rented car too. If someone rented my car and left something inside itching for someone to come break the windows I'd be a little angry.

 

[daniel]

Folks leaving $800 computing devices lying around ...

My phone's only half that.

 

[ChrisH]

My phone's only half that.

What phone do you have? Lol they are stupidly expensive these days!

 

[daniel]

What phone do you have? Lol they are stupidly expensive these days!

iPhone SE. Love it. It's the right size for my hand and my pocket, yet still big enough to use Google Maps while driving, with a little holder that lets it sit on the dashbaord or center console where I can see it. I much prefer it over larger phones. I don't need or want my phone to be a full computer. It does fine with airline apps and ride-share apps, all the kinds of things I want to be able to do when I'm not at home.

I don't dispute the value of those monster phones. I just don't need or want one.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My phone's only half that.

And mine was less than 7% of that, although it is also likely too old to work as a key, being Android 4.4. However, it costs me only $100 a year in care and feeding (Tracfone) and does everything I need, so I refuse to replace it with something expensive.

 

[ChrisH]

iPhone SE. Love it. It's the right size for my hand and my pocket, yet still big enough to use Google Maps while driving, with a little holder that lets it sit on the dashbaord or center console where I can see it. I much prefer it over larger phones. I don't need or want my phone to be a full computer. It does fine with airline apps and ride-share apps, all the kinds of things I want to be able to do when I'm not at home.

I don't dispute the value of those monster phones. I just don't need or want one.

Fair enough. I think they stopped making the SE with the latest roll out of phones. Too bad for those who like smaller phones.

 

[contaygious]

There is a fob coming so moot point...

 

[JeffK]

There is a fob coming so moot point...

Not if the OP decides that leaving their fob in the car is a security issue...

 

[daniel]

Fair enough. I think they stopped making the SE with the latest roll out of phones. Too bad for those who like smaller phones.

According to this, it looks like the iPhone SE is not being discontinued after all. Rather, the rumored SE 2 will not be built. Won't affect me, because I generally keep a phone for many years. This is actually my first smartphone. Before this I went through two stupidphones (i.e., flip phones), keeping each until the battery was pretty well shot and even places where you can donate old outdated phones didn't want them.

 

[ChrisH]

According to this, it looks like the iPhone SE is not being discontinued after all. Rather, the rumored SE 2 will not be built. Won't affect me, because I generally keep a phone for many years. This is actually my first smartphone. Before this I went through two stupidphones (i.e., flip phones), keeping each until the battery was pretty well shot and even places where you can donate old outdated phones didn't want them.

Hmmm that’s from July and the new phones were just released. I will have to double check but I don’t think the SE is available anymore.

 

[daniel]

Hmmm that’s from July and the new phones were just released. I will have to double check but I don’t think the SE is available anymore.

If you go to the Apple web site and click on the iPhone tab at the top, then scroll down and click on Find the iPhone that's right for you, then click on See all models, the SE is still listed. They make it hard to find, but it's there. Verizon also still lists it, at the very bottom of a long page of phones, though admittedly that could be left-over stock. But for the moment it seems to be still available.

 

[copyhacker]

There's another scenario I didn't see brought up on this thread (although it did turn up elsewhere): going for a run or a swim or some other exercise that you wouldn't ordinarily take your phone with you. Sure, you can turn your phone's Bluetooth off (if you remember to) and just take the card--but that assumes you have a place to put the card. Lots of workout clothes have pockets that are just the right size for a key or a fob, but the wrong size for a card.

All this is first-world-problems stuff. Just like Apple killing the floppy and the CD-ROM and the headphone jack and the mouse port, people will adapt, and clothing manufacturers will adapt... eventually.

But that said, it'd be pretty simple for Tesla to put out an app update that allows your Apple or Android watch to work as a key, as someone else already mentioned. If I can leave my phone in the car and pay for groceries with my watch, I ought to be able to unlock my car with it after.

 

[daniel]

The size of a phone, even my little SE, makes it awkward in general, even aside from times when you're going running or swimming. And having to turn BT off in order to leave it in the car is a kludge unworthy of a space-age car like the Tesla.

 

[LucyferSam]

In addition, there is no simple way to open the frunk on the Model 3. Either you pull your phone out, unlock it, scroll to the proper screen, and press the Open Frunk button, which is a colossal pain in the ass, or you open the car and lean way in to press the icon on the screen, which is almost as much of a pain in the ass.

This is simply not true, you can open the frunk from the permanent notification from the Tesla app (though I don't use iDevices so I'm not sure if the notification is different, but based on other reports I've read I don't think it is). I fail to see how this is much different than pulling a fob out of your pocket and pressing the frunk button.

 

[ChrisH]

If you go to the Apple web site and click on the iPhone tab at the top, then scroll down and click on Find the iPhone that's right for you, then click on See all models, the SE is still listed. They make it hard to find, but it's there. Verizon also still lists it, at the very bottom of a long page of phones, though admittedly that could be left-over stock. But for the moment it seems to be still available.

I went to the SE pages on both Verizon and sprints website and both of them say out of stock.