Should I buy this CPO 2014 MS 85

[BrianSF]

Looking for a quick sanity check on this vehicle, $1k DP has been made but unsure if I should wait for something better down the road (i.e. dual motor)

Seems to be one of the cheapest AP1 Model S, esp after seeing the 70d on this forum get scooped up within hours.

$56k, no transportation fee
2014 Model S 85 kWh
48k total milage
4 year 100k warranty CPO
White Solid Paint
Black Roof
19" Silver Cyclone Wheels
Black Nappa Leather Seats
Carbon Fiber Décor
White Alcantara Headliner
Free Supercharging
Tech Package
Smart Air Suspension
Premium Interior Lighting
Autopilot 1.0 HW equipped

 

[TaoJones]

It seems to be priced a tad on the high side, but then again you'll end up with $4K of coverage through 100K miles and it is an AP1 car.

I plan to replace the current AP2 car with an AP1 car very similar to what you found, which is very similar to what I happily owned for 2+ years before ending up with the current... vehicle.

So yes, you should buy it. Wish I'd found it before you did.

 

[BrianSF]

It seems to be priced a tad on the high side, but then again you'll end up with $4K of coverage through 100K miles and it is an AP1 car.

I plan to replace the current AP2 car with an AP1 car very similar to what you found, which is very similar to what I happily owned for 2+ years before ending up with the current... vehicle.

So yes, you should buy it. Wish I'd found it before you did.

thank you, whats making you go back to an ap1 if you dont mind me asking?

 

[TaoJones]

thank you, whats making you go back to an ap1 if you dont mind me asking?

The short answer is that *overall*, AP1 works better than AP2 at this point, this point being:

1 year after the announcement of AP2

and

almost a year after the promise of parity with AP1

I also like speed limit signs that are read correctly instead of erroneously displayed/acted upon from an error-riddled database.

 

[Zorg]

Nice find.

 

[JPUConn]

If you don’t have a use for AWD and lack of pano roof is ok for you then that’s a fair deal factoring in the CPO benefits.

Being a 2014 that is likely a pre center console car just for your awareness.

 

[calisnow]

It seems to be priced a tad on the high side, but then again you'll end up with $4K of coverage through 100K miles and it is an AP1 car.

I plan to replace the current AP2 car with an AP1 car very similar to what you found, which is very similar to what I happily owned for 2+ years before ending up with the current... vehicle.

So yes, you should buy it. Wish I'd found it before you did.

What version AP2 firmware are you on?

 

[calisnow]

The short answer is that *overall*, AP1 works better than AP2 at this point

No it doesn't.

 

[calisnow]

thank you, whats making you go back to an ap1 if you dont mind me asking?

I have both cars - it's no contest. AP2 is what I'd keep if I had to choose. It isn't even close. Going back to AP1 is irrational if one is doing so for performance - AP2's driving experience is continuously improving (as one would expect), has been doing so since its birth, has achieved dramatic performance gains in the last two weeks and is still in its infancy. It has been closing in on AP1 for several months and in the last two weeks has achieved a rock solid driving behavior even on very poorly marked low contrast roads (.40 and above firmware). AP1 is a great, but mature product at the end of its dev cycle.

An AP1 car is the clear choice over ever other car sold except an AP2 car. The AP2 situation is so fluid and fast changing you can't rely on any reviews or articles more than a day or two old if they don't specify what firmware they tested.

 

[TaoJones]

No it doesn't.

Of course it does. But only those who had AP1 and AP2 and an objective view would know that. I’ve described the *one* use case in which AP2 has proven superior. Other than that, just the speed limit fail alone disqualifies any credible assertion that AP2 is better.

I also don’t believe speed limit signs will be recognized by (and therefore reacted to) by AP2 *ever* as they were with AP1. Why? Because it was a deliberate choice to replace that functionality (camera read) with an as yet buggy database. Why why? Because with AP1, if there was a big truck in the right lane and you were in the middle lane, a new speed limit sign would not be read. That’s just one example. Others included school zone signage for awhile. So they decided to use a database that some third party would update. After all, map data got updated periodically.

And so here we are. Yet another example of how AP2 is not today as good as AP1. Can it be? With a retrofit, sure, and that’s not a Bad Thing for those who shelled out their $8,000 with, in part, the promise of *polite cough* parity which is now only about a year late.

By the way, I drive the same roads locally, relatively speaking, that you do. Want a glaring example of how godawful bad AP2 is compared to AP1 six months ago? Go drive Portuguese Bend in both directions. And then try the spring rolls at Pho America in the ass end of Long Beach - they’re delicious and the size of small burritos.

 

[calisnow]

@BrianSF - having said that if your budget is $56K go for it - you will LOVE the car.

 

[calisnow]

Of course it does. But only those who had AP1 and AP2 and an objective view would know that. I’ve described the *one* use case in which AP2 has proven superior. Other than that, just the speed limit fail alone disqualifies any credible assertion that AP2 is better.

I also don’t believe speed limit signs will be recognized by (and therefore reacted to) by AP2 *ever* as they were with AP1. Why? Because it was a deliberate choice to replace that functionality (camera read) with an as yet buggy database. Why why? Because with AP1, if there was a big truck in the right lane and you were in the middle lane, a new speed limit sign would not be read. That’s just one example. Others included school zone signage for awhile. So they decided to use a database that some third party would update. After all, map data got updated periodically.

And so here we are. Yet another example of how AP2 is not today as good as AP1. Can it be? With a retrofit, sure, and that’s not a Bad Thing for those who shelled out their $8,000 with, in part, the promise of *polite cough* parity which is now only about a year late.

By the way, I drive the same roads locally, relatively speaking, that you do. Want a glaring example of how godawful bad AP2 is compared to AP1 six months ago? Go drive Portuguese Bend in both directions. And then try the spring rolls at Pho America in the ass end of Long Beach - they’re delicious and the size of small burritos.

What firmware are you on?

 

[calisnow]

Oh for god sake Tao your AP2 system is 3 firmwares and two updated neural nets behind what is current and you don't even bother to tell the newbie that? C'mon man you're being irresponsible in your advice to a 5 post newbie. You are right - .34 is not nearly as good as .40 and .42. I know because I had .34 up until recently. I'd challenge any normal person to blind identify .42 AP2 from AP1. AP2 continues to accelerate ahead of AP1 and any competing products on the market. You know quite well the reviews the latest builds are getting - but you conveniently left them out of your newbie advice, while using the opportunity to gripe once more about the past.

 

[TaoJones]

Oh, puh-lease.

Now see here, Sunshine...

Does *.42 solve the speed limit fail?
How about lanekeeping?
How about the TACC foible at low speed?

I didn’t think so.

And all the cherrypicking in the world won’t change that.

Again - drive a non-vanilla, real world road with both AP2 *.[latest] and AP1.

Newbies have enough sunshine blown up their skirts. Until AP2 is as good or better than AP1, it isn’t.

And it isn’t.

Go drive both cars and see for yourself. It’s a matter of a simple afternoon at Terranea with either of the local clubs.

 

[calisnow]

Of course it does. But only those who had AP1 and AP2 and an objective view would know that. I’ve described the *one* use case in which AP2 has proven superior. Other than that, just the speed limit fail alone disqualifies any credible assertion that AP2 is better.

I also don’t believe speed limit signs will be recognized by (and therefore reacted to) by AP2 *ever* as they were with AP1. Why? Because it was a deliberate choice to replace that functionality (camera read) with an as yet buggy database. Why why? Because with AP1, if there was a big truck in the right lane and you were in the middle lane, a new speed limit sign would not be read. That’s just one example. Others included school zone signage for awhile. So they decided to use a database that some third party would update. After all, map data got updated periodically.

And so here we are. Yet another example of how AP2 is not today as good as AP1. Can it be? With a retrofit, sure, and that’s not a Bad Thing for those who shelled out their $8,000 with, in part, the promise of *polite cough* parity which is now only about a year late.

By the way, I drive the same roads locally, relatively speaking, that you do. Want a glaring example of how godawful bad AP2 is compared to AP1 six months ago? Go drive Portuguese Bend in both directions. And then try the spring rolls at Pho America in the ass end of Long Beach - they’re delicious and the size of small burritos.

As a side note - it isn't logical to believe Tesla will not build sign recognition. It is logical to believe they prioritized goals last year and rightly put driving ahead of speed limit signs on local roads.

 

[calisnow]

@BrianSF - I will say a couple things - I have an air suspension car and a coil. I'd go for air every time so good choice on that.

Having said that - depending on your budget and your tax bracket you have a choice here:

AP1 for $56K
AP2.5 brand new for $69.5K after tax - that's the lowest price config with autopilot. For your roughly $15K extra you get:

-glass roof
-significantly faster acceleration
-better seats
-all wheel drive
-roughly 50K extra miles of warranty
-48K fewer miles
-quieter car
-improvements to safety (seatbelt design changes for small overlap crash)
-suspension system improvements
********-a much more capable autonomy platform that's on a very rapid development trajectory and has the entire company laser focused on improving it as fast and as much as possible.
-some improved interior materials
-numerous other design and engineering changes from three years of development.

 

[calisnow]

So having said all that I'd want any AP1 car to be in the mid $40K range before I felt it a decent value.

 

[Sunshine State]

No it doesn't.

Most with experience agree AP1 is superior but you're fine to disagree. I have to admit that it has been a week and a half since I drove an AP2 car but it was still prone to surprises where AP1 is still almost foolproof. Most people with AP2 are not willing to go back to an older car with generally better equipment though just because of the inferior newer AP. Give it another year or two and I’m sure AP2 will become stable after all Tesla is working hard and has already come out with AP2.5 to replace it.

 

[calisnow]

Also Brian - a "stripped" 75D with no options but EAP is pretty damn loaded now. All the stuff that matters is included: air suspension glass roof power lift gate. For a HEPA filter you don't need PUP - you can go aftermarket.

 

[calisnow]

Most with experience agree AP1 is superior but you're fine to disagree.

I would've agreed until .40 - at this point guys like you and Tao are the equivalent of audiophiles straining to hear minor differences in extremely good gear and losing the forest for the trees. AP1 is a horrible value proposition unless the car has a huge discount. It is a dead end platform in maintenance mode. An excellent platform - but it has no future. AP2 has had lightening fast progress in 12 months - far faster than AP1 did - it drives indistinguishably for "civilians" in the latest builds of .40 and later - and all Tesla's resources are pushing it forward.

It is one thing to have in-crowd nerd fights about almost imperceptible differences between systems (if you're talking about comparison drives at the "terranea" club you know you are out of touch with the real world) among the crowd here - but when strangers come asking us for advice let's try to keep some big picture perspective about where the value lies and where the future is.