Stopping mode changed from HOLD to Creep automatically in snow?

[THEbuz]

It snowed all through the night last night and into this morning, and as I was on my way to drop my daughter off at school, I noticed that my 2023 Model Y was not stopping in “HOLD” mode as it normally does in my driver profile. I checked the settings menu and found this…(SEE PHOTO). The words “Slowly move when pedals are released” were displayed in the settings under Pedals & Steering, and I was unable to change it back to “HOLD” mode. Did my TESLA just recognize that it is driving through heavy snow and enable some sort of “snow creep” mode to assist me on my morning drive in?

Later on in the day, when the snowfall had subsided and much of the snowfall had already melted off, my Model Y returned to “HOLD” mode on its own. Pretty cool—but I think an on-screen visual alert with an audio warning is warranted any time the vehicle no longer holds but rather applies creeping idle. Had I not been paying attention, I may have rolled into the car ahead of me at the red light.

 

[CMPT PAD]

Are U saying that it moves from HOLD to CREEP or ROLL mode then back to HOLD automatically? that would be wonderful

HOLD is IMO pretty much like a 2nd Gear in ICE hence it has a chance to "lock" wheels in snow condition and that's very dangerous.
With my old ICE I learned to shift Gear to neutral before applying brakes in snow and it made a HUGE difference

 

[THEbuz]

Are U saying that it moves from HOLD to CREEP or ROLL mode then back to HOLD automatically? that would be wonderful

HOLD is IMO pretty much like a 2nd Gear in ICE hence it has a chance to "lock" wheels in snow condition and that's very dangerous.
With my old ICE I learned to shift Gear to neutral before applying brakes in snow and it made a HUGE difference

I keep it in HOLD 100% of the time. I noticed that I was unable to change it while driving with snow on the ground. As you can see, the screen options were disabled, but it seemed to have placed it in a “snow” mode of sorts (no mention of a “snow mode” on-screen, mind you) with what felt to me like a 50% Creep, not full Creep and not Roll. I did not enable Slip Start. This change was autonomous. Hope that helps to clarify.

 

[avramd]

That is a little bit freaky. If this is really what's going on, it is a cool feature, but it is not cool for it to happen silently, or for us not to have a choice (although add it to the list I suppose).

I don't remember though - can we normally change stopping mode without being in Park? Or were you in Park, and it still wouldn't let you change it?

... I know, I could just go out to my car and test this, but it's 12:40am, and I'm in bed... I hope nobody minds me being a little lazy (and wanting to stay warm

 

[CMPT PAD]

That is a little bit freaky. If this is really what's going on, it is a cool feature, but it is not cool for it to happen silently, or for us not to have a choice (although add it to the list I suppose).

I don't remember though - can we normally change stopping mode without being in Park? Or were you in Park, and it still wouldn't let you change it?

... I know, I could just go out to my car and test this, but it's 12:40am, and I'm in bed... I hope nobody minds me being a little lazy (and wanting to stay warm

[I don't remember though - can we normally change stopping mode without being in Park? Or were you in Park, and it still wouldn't let you change it?]
I don't know but I am curious so will try it next time out driving. If the software automatically changes from HOLD to CHILL depending on snowy roads then it's fantastic. Just based on my past experience with ICE car the HOLD mode in Tesla would be like shifting to the 2nd gear , That's why I ALWAYS shift it to neutral before applying brakes, even with my current 1996 RWD MB E-320

 

[THEbuz]

That is a little bit freaky. If this is really what's going on, it is a cool feature, but it is not cool for it to happen silently, or for us not to have a choice (although add it to the list I suppose).

I don't remember though - can we normally change stopping mode without being in Park? Or were you in Park, and it still wouldn't let you change it?

... I know, I could just go out to my car and test this, but it's 12:40am, and I'm in bed... I hope nobody minds me being a little lazy (and wanting to stay warm

I don’t think I put it into PARK to try to change it (and I didn’t know at the time that you cannot change this setting unless in PARK). In short, it is no longer snowing now and I don’t know if I could have changed it at the time (had I put it in PARK). The important thing here is that it still showed that it was in HOLD mode but the setting was disabled (possibly because I was driving). However, where the literal rubber met the road, it wasn’t performing a HOLD at red lights. The “creep” it was doing was not like the CREEP setting. I would guess that it was 50% of that degree of creep due to the snow. I was paying attention while stopped at the red light, so when I took my foot off the brake, I immediately noticed that the car was moving forward slightly.

 

[arbitrage000]

Are you sure it didn't load a different driver profile or the easy access profile? I know sometimes I get in my car all by myself and it loads my partner's profile for no reason and all of a sudden I notice all sorts of setting differences (most recently was that her profile didn't have the new auto turn signals enabled). Before I had a profile for her I noticed it sometime would default to the easy access profile instead of mine.

I've never read anything about MY changing drive modes in the snow. I had mine out in December in about a foot of snow and it didn't switch modes on me.

And yes you do need to be in Park to change between those three modes.

 

[TechnoMinds]

HOLD is IMO pretty much like a 2nd Gear in ICE hence it has a chance to "lock" wheels in snow condition and that's very dangerous.
With my old ICE I learned to shift Gear to neutral before applying brakes in snow and it made a HUGE difference

It sounds like you are saying Hold option affects the car while it is driving. It does not. It only keeps the car from rolling when you come to a stop. It holds you in place so you don't have to keep your foot on the brake. Whether you are in the snow, on sand or in water, it does not matter and I can't possibly think of how it would be dangerous.

 

[TechnoMinds]

It snowed all through the night last night and into this morning, and as I was on my way to drop my daughter off at school, I noticed that my 2023 Model Y was not stopping in “HOLD” mode as it normally does in my driver profile. I checked the settings menu and found this…(SEE PHOTO). The words “Slowly move when pedals are released” were displayed in the settings under Pedals & Steering, and I was unable to change it back to “HOLD” mode. Did my TESLA just recognize that it is driving through heavy snow and enable some sort of “snow creep” mode to assist me on my morning drive in?

Later on in the day, when the snowfall had subsided and much of the snowfall had already melted off, my Model Y returned to “HOLD” mode on its own. Pretty cool—but I think an on-screen visual alert with an audio warning is warranted any time the vehicle no longer holds but rather applies creeping idle. Had I not been paying attention, I may have rolled into the car ahead of me at the red light.
View attachment 897761

I live in the snow and I have not experienced anything similar to this. Mine stays in Hold mode all the time. Do you have multiple profiles?

 

[THEbuz]

Are you sure it didn't load a different driver profile or the easy access profile? I know sometimes I get in my car all by myself and it loads my partner's profile for no reason and all of a sudden I notice all sorts of setting differences (most recently was that her profile didn't have the new auto turn signals enabled). Before I had a profile for her I noticed it sometime would default to the easy access profile instead of mine.

I've never read anything about MY changing drive modes in the snow. I had mine out in December in about a foot of snow and it didn't switch modes on me.

And yes you do need to be in Park to change between those three modes.

Pretty sure it was in my profile. It defaults to mine, as it’s my car and I am designated as the primary driver. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[THEbuz]

I live in the snow and I have not experienced anything similar to this. Mine stays in Hold mode all the time. Do you have multiple profiles?

I have a few other profiles:
Me (primary driver)
Daughter
Wifey
GUEST
Easy Entry

I am as certain as I can be that it was in my profile. Every day, my daughter drives us to her school (she has her learner’s permit), and then I get in the driver seat and head to work. It ALWAYS defaults to my profile (from Easy Entry to my profile after I enter my drive code) when I get into the driver seat after her. The only thing different that day is that it snowed and I worked from “home” (i.e. coffee shop).

 

[CMPT PAD]

It sounds like you are saying Hold option affects the car while it is driving. It does not. It only keeps the car from rolling when you come to a stop. It holds you in place so you don't have to keep your foot on the brake. Whether you are in the snow, on sand or in water, it does not matter and I can't possibly think of how it would be dangerous.

No, that's NOT what I am saying
(1) HOLD in stopping mode has ZERO effect while driving
(2) HOLD mode IMO function more like I put my ICE in 2nd or 3rd gear which is still OK
(3) on SNOWY roads, HOLD could lock wheels and that's why I said 'could be dangerous'. If Tesla software could sense the slippery conditions of SNOWY roads and automatically change its mode from HOLD to Roll or Creep then IMO that's what I need.

I have been driving ICE since 1973 and still driving my 1996 MB RWD E-320. Until this day, on SNOWY road I ALWAYS shift gear to neutral before braking and it stops straight and true

 

[arbitrage000]

Pretty sure it was in my profile. It defaults to mine, as it’s my car and I am designated as the primary driver. Thanks for weighing in.

I also have my profile setup as primary driver and 98% of the time it defaults correctly. But I've also caught it going to Easy access or my partners profile when she is nowhere near the car and not coming along with me. It does happen and really it is the only thing that explains your situation as the car does not change that mode on its own.

Remember it doesn't display what profile it is using while in drive. You have to be in park to even see the profile icon and name on the top of the screen.

I would check your other profiles as I bet one or more of them have that setting in Creep and that is the one it loaded. Likely your daughters if she was near the car (even though she went into school) before it happened. Or maybe EasyAccess if you say it goes to that one before yours usually.

 

[avramd]

No, that's NOT what I am saying

(1) HOLD in stopping mode has ZERO effect while driving
(2) HOLD mode IMO function more like I put my ICE in 2nd or 3rd gear which is still OK
(3) on SNOWY roads, HOLD could lock wheels and that's why I said 'could be dangerous'. If Tesla software could sense the slippery conditions of SNOWY roads and automatically change its mode from HOLD to Roll or Creep then IMO that's what I need.

I don't quite understand your #2 or #3 here. How is hold mode like putting an ICE car in 2nd or 3rd gear?

Your #3 above seems to contradict your #1 - could you clarify? My experience is that HOLD does not engage until the car is already stopped. I don't see how that could be dangerous - unless you are talking about being on a very icy hill, where you barely managed to stop - and then say there is motion in the car (like a person scooching in their seat) - that might break the friction between the tires and the ice. Then I can see a car in hold mode being in trouble b/c it's sliding and it doesn't know it's moving, so it'll keep the breaks locked. You'd need to tap the accelerator to "tell it" that it's moving. However this would be an unusual corner case.

When I was at winter driving school, I never experienced hold mode causing a problem. This includes several dozen exercises involving stopping in an iced-over braking zone. It was definitely the opposite, the ABS was hyper-aggressive due to the regenerative braking. As I mentioned in my post about track mode snow settings, the challenge was that the ABS wouldn't stop even though I wasn't touching either pedal. This is b/c the car applies ABS even to slip that is caused by regen. What I needed to do (but failed to train my brain to do) was apply light accelerator to get the ABS to stop - effectively telling the car "No, I want to go this speed, please stop with the ABS," and then lift the accelerator only slightly, to get regen braking - but less than fully lifting off the pedal, so the ABS would not re-engage.

 

[avramd]

The important thing here is that it still showed that it was in HOLD mode but the setting was disabled (possibly because I was driving).

Based on your photo in your OP, I would say that it is showing that it is in Creep mode. It is very faint due to the control being disabled, but it looks to me like Creep is slightly brighter than the other two.

However, where the literal rubber met the road, it wasn’t performing a HOLD at red lights. The “creep” it was doing was not like the CREEP setting. I would guess that it was 50% of that degree of creep due to the snow. I was paying attention while stopped at the red light, so when I took my foot off the brake, I immediately noticed that the car was moving forward slightly.

I hear you. This definitely seems like an odd experience. Given that I did not experience this at winter driving school, despite being constantly in slippery conditions, my personal analysis is that there is no automatic snow-creep mode feature as you've suggested. Although, I acknowledge that I was in track mode the whole time, and that might disable such a feature if it exists.

 

[THEbuz]

Based on your photo in your OP, I would say that it is showing that it is in Creep mode. It is very faint due to the control being disabled, but it looks to me like Creep is slightly brighter than the other two.



I hear you. This definitely seems like an odd experience. Given that I did not experience this at winter driving school, despite being constantly in slippery conditions, my personal analysis is that there is no automatic snow-creep mode feature as you've suggested. Although, I acknowledge that I was in track mode the whole time, and that might disable such a feature if it exists.

I took another look at the the photo that I OP, and I agree with you. It is entirely possible that I was in my daughter’s driver profile at the time (while sitting at a red light—and since she had driven us to her school and I got into the driver seat). Who knows? Pretty sure I would have noticed her seat placement feeling OFF to me. Of course, I didn’t know at the time that this setting is disabled except when the car is in PARK.

 

[CMPT PAD]

No, that's NOT what I am saying

I don't quite understand your #2 or #3 here. How is hold mode like putting an ICE car in 2nd or 3rd gear?

Your #3 above seems to contradict your #1 - could you clarify? My experience is that HOLD does not engage until the car is already stopped. I don't see how that could be dangerous - unless you are talking about being on a very icy hill, where you barely managed to stop - and then say there is motion in the car (like a person scooching in their seat) - that might break the friction between the tires and the ice. Then I can see a car in hold mode being in trouble b/c it's sliding and it doesn't know it's moving, so it'll keep the breaks locked. You'd need to tap the accelerator to "tell it" that it's moving. However this would be an unusual corner case.

When I was at winter driving school, I never experienced hold mode causing a problem. This includes several dozen exercises involving stopping in an iced-over braking zone. It was definitely the opposite, the ABS was hyper-aggressive due to the regenerative braking. As I mentioned in my post about track mode snow settings, the challenge was that the ABS wouldn't stop even though I wasn't touching either pedal. This is b/c the car applies ABS even to slip that is caused by regen. What I needed to do (but failed to train my brain to do) was apply light accelerator to get the ABS to stop - effectively telling the car "No, I want to go this speed, please stop with the ABS," and then lift the accelerator only slightly, to get regen braking - but less than fully lifting off the pedal, so the ABS would not re-engage.

To me... HOLD mode would stop the car quicker than Chill or Roll mode. IMO 'pseudo' braking' happens to get regen. Not sure if HOLD function more like ABS. I use HOLD all the time. I am not sure if I want HOLD mode on snowy/ice roads being afraid that it would lock the wheels (I could be totally wrong)... But I know one thing for sure on Snowy/Icy roads I ALWAYS shift gear of my RWD 1996 MB E-320 to neutral (I guess similar to chill?) before I apply my brakes and the stopping is always straight and true

 

[avramd]

To me... HOLD mode would stop the car quicker than Chill or Roll mode. IMO 'pseudo' braking' happens to get regen. Not sure if HOLD function more like ABS. I use HOLD all the time. I am not sure if I want HOLD mode on snowy/ice roads being afraid that it would lock the wheels (I could be totally wrong)... But I know one thing for sure on Snowy/Icy roads I ALWAYS shift gear of my RWD 1996 MB E-320 to neutral (I guess similar to chill?) before I apply my brakes and the stopping is always straight and true

Ok, so if I'm hearing you right, this is more your interpretation of what HOLD mode sounds like it means than a claim about your real-world experience with it? I'll pay closer attention next weekend when I go back to Winter Driving School to see if any of the stopping modes have any effect on slip. So far I'm pretty confident that: HOLD does nothing until all four wheels are stopped; CREEP starts to apply a little bit of accelerator to mimic an automatic when the car gets down to just a couple MPH; and ROLL does either nothing - just lets the wheels freewheel when neither pedal is pressed, or it leave regenerative braking in play which would still allow some roll, not sure about this one. Adding to my to-do list for WDS.

I agree you're making the right call on a rear-wheel drive vehicle shifting into neutral in slippery conditions. 2WD vehicles inherently cause asymmetric braking at only the drive wheels, which increases the risk of lift-throttle under/oversteer and brake locking. This is one of the least understood benefits of AWD - symmetric engine-braking to all four wheels, making engine braking as safe as regular braking, and sparing drivers from the effort and knowledge to do what you are describing.

 

[CMPT PAD]

Ok, so if I'm hearing you right, this is more your interpretation of what HOLD mode sounds like it means than a claim about your real-world experience with it? I'll pay closer attention next weekend when I go back to Winter Driving School to see if any of the stopping modes have any effect on slip. So far I'm pretty confident that: HOLD does nothing until all four wheels are stopped; CREEP starts to apply a little bit of accelerator to mimic an automatic when the car gets down to just a couple MPH; and ROLL does either nothing - just lets the wheels freewheel when neither pedal is pressed, or it leave regenerative braking in play which would still allow some roll, not sure about this one. Adding to my to-do list for WDS.

I agree you're making the right call on a rear-wheel drive vehicle shifting into neutral in slippery conditions. 2WD vehicles inherently cause asymmetric braking at only the drive wheels, which increases the risk of lift-throttle under/oversteer and brake locking. This is one of the least understood benefits of AWD - symmetric engine-braking to all four wheels, making engine braking as safe as regular braking, and sparing drivers from the effort and knowledge to do what you are describing.

I am glad that U have the luxury of going to the Winter driving school. Share with us what U are going to learn. Thx