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That’s what I figured as well. My issue is grinding / vibration felt through steering wheel, seats and rest of car depending on road. Tires and wheels checked by Tesla, road forced well within limits, wheel runout is good, alignment is good.
Beyond the basics it’s been totally useless trying to work with local SC on any further in-depth diagnostics. Been in six times for same issue without resolution and it’s getting worse and worse. Would be interesting to pitch them ideas from all of you. I’ve given up on the ownership experience and decided to go back to Lexus after a year full of issues and almost a month out of service, but it would be nice to get the car fixed right first before selling.
Grinding noises are almost never a function of wheels or tires. Wheel bearings, bushings, something rubbing or contacting brake components or something that's causing a failure of isolation or proper clearance is more likely to be the principal culprit, but wheel bearing failure in a new car is incredibly rare. I'd be interested to hear from other guys with lots of experience working on suspensions but when you drive somebody else's Tesla I assume you notice a big difference? Did the service tech guys at the service center confirm that there was something going on or were they unable to confirm this? Is it intermittent or constant? The fact that you've been six times without a diagnosis suggests that your local service center does not have a competent person who can really figure this out.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
A few things:
(Not to assume anything) Are you sure it isn’t Lane departure warning? The safety feature will shake the steering wheel sometimes. You can turn it off and see if it improves.
Try to notice if the following makes it worse or better:
1. Road surface
2. Prolonged left versus right turns
3. Difference when accelerating, constant speed, coasting, regenerative braking and using the brakes to slow down.
What I would also try if this was happening to my car:
Find a place where this happens and go there when it isn’t busy. Drive your car above the speed this happens at and put the car in neutral. Assuming you still feel it, lightly press on the brake pedal till you just start to feel the brakes engage. Determine whether the problem is more or less noticeable or the same.
I appreciate the feedback - and understand that a lot of people wouldn’t be able to differentiate lane departure warning versus something mechanical. It’s not LDW, as turning the option on/off doesn’t change anything. Even though I always indicate when changing lanes, this was the first thing I turned off, thinking it could possibly be engaging at the wrong time.
Both of my local service centers have test driven the car with me, and while some techs admit that there is a problem somewhere, the issue remains unresolved when I pick up the car, and it always reverts back to “tire road force and alignment should be checked”. I’m on a first name basis with most staff at the service center because I have been in so many times for this, but every time I conclusively show it’s not whatever they suggest it goes nowhere, even though I have gone up the corporate chain with. Now I am asking them to go through specific components on front suspension and steering, as well as checking bushings and joints. My next course of action if that goes unresolved is filing a lemon law claim and forcing their hand to either repair or refund the car. I hate that it’s come to that after how excited I was about this car a year ago, but the support I’ve experienced from Tesla has been nothing short of awful. I’m not spreading BS or “FUD”, I still want them to win and get this right.
Rough road surfaces definitely make it worse, and on rough highway surfaces it’ll leave your hands numb from all the vibrations in the steering wheel. To make sure I wasn’t loosing my mind I drove an identically configured demo car from Tesla, same wheels and tires, same PSI, and it was like butter - same way mine was when it was delivered. A handful of techs who have driven the car recognize that there is a problem, and a few have said “there’s a vibration but all Model 3s have that”. I’ll be curious to see the response on my upcoming appointment as the problem is worse than it’s ever been before now, and I doubt anyone would be able to call it normal.
Long winded post, but kind of cathartic to type it all out
I appreciate the feedback - and understand that a lot of people wouldn’t be able to differentiate lane departure warning versus something mechanical. It’s not LDW, as turning the option on/off doesn’t change anything. Even though I always indicate when changing lanes, this was the first thing I turned off, thinking it could possibly be engaging at the wrong time.
Both of my local service centers have test driven the car with me, and while some techs admit that there is a problem somewhere, the issue remains unresolved when I pick up the car, and it always reverts back to “tire road force and alignment should be checked”. I’m on a first name basis with most staff at the service center because I have been in so many times for this, but every time I conclusively show it’s not whatever they suggest it goes nowhere, even though I have gone up the corporate chain with. Now I am asking them to go through specific components on front suspension and steering, as well as checking bushings and joints. My next course of action if that goes unresolved is filing a lemon law claim and forcing their hand to either repair or refund the car. I hate that it’s come to that after how excited I was about this car a year ago, but the support I’ve experienced from Tesla has been nothing short of awful. I’m not spreading BS or “FUD”, I still want them to win and get this right.
Rough road surfaces definitely make it worse, and on rough highway surfaces it’ll leave your hands numb from all the vibrations in the steering wheel. To make sure I wasn’t loosing my mind I drove an identically configured demo car from Tesla, same wheels and tires, same PSI, and it was like butter - same way mine was when it was delivered. A handful of techs who have driven the car recognize that there is a problem, and a few have said “there’s a vibration but all Model 3s have that”. I’ll be curious to see the response on my upcoming appointment as the problem is worse than it’s ever been before now, and I doubt anyone would be able to call it normal.
Long winded post, but kind of cathartic to type it all out
I appreciate the feedback - and understand that a lot of people wouldn’t be able to differentiate lane departure warning versus something mechanical. It’s not LDW, as turning the option on/off doesn’t change anything. Even though I always indicate when changing lanes, this was the first thing I turned off, thinking it could possibly be engaging at the wrong time.
Both of my local service centers have test driven the car with me, and while some techs admit that there is a problem somewhere, the issue remains unresolved when I pick up the car, and it always reverts back to “tire road force and alignment should be checked”. I’m on a first name basis with most staff at the service center because I have been in so many times for this, but every time I conclusively show it’s not whatever they suggest it goes nowhere, even though I have gone up the corporate chain with. Now I am asking them to go through specific components on front suspension and steering, as well as checking bushings and joints. My next course of action if that goes unresolved is filing a lemon law claim and forcing their hand to either repair or refund the car. I hate that it’s come to that after how excited I was about this car a year ago, but the support I’ve experienced from Tesla has been nothing short of awful. I’m not spreading BS or “FUD”, I still want them to win and get this right.
Rough road surfaces definitely make it worse, and on rough highway surfaces it’ll leave your hands numb from all the vibrations in the steering wheel. To make sure I wasn’t loosing my mind I drove an identically configured demo car from Tesla, same wheels and tires, same PSI, and it was like butter - same way mine was when it was delivered. A handful of techs who have driven the car recognize that there is a problem, and a few have said “there’s a vibration but all Model 3s have that”. I’ll be curious to see the response on my upcoming appointment as the problem is worse than it’s ever been before now, and I doubt anyone would be able to call it normal.
Long winded post, but kind of cathartic to type it all out
That sounds like a classic description of isolation failure. That usually means a bushing failure or some other way in which suspension components are not properly isolated.
It's what hardcore trackers experience after they replace all the rubber bushings in their suspension with polyurethane and then try to drive the car on the street. Could be Top Hat failure as well but that's just another bushing really.
as someone who is thinking of replacing my suspension with MCS and the various SPL arms, which I believe use PTFE instead of rubber, how bad does it really get? I'm okay sacrificing some level of NVH, but I still want to be able to drive 10 hours to mammoth from san diego in some level of comfort
I think the price tag is too high if you plan on driving your car long distance. The MPP toe and camber arms at least in the rear (not sure about the front Wishbone part) are still rubber isolated and do not cost you anything in terms of comfort. Same with the MVP sport coilovers. Set at the recommended Street settings of 10/12 I actually think the ride is maybe a touch better. More composed less pitchy . Obviously it's a personal decision and a lot of people who don't drive long distance and are concerned just about track performance won't care. They'll just put up with the around town harshness on shorter drives but I could never drive a car cross-country that had rubber bushings replaced by urethane. We just drove from New Hampshire to Florida over three days. The drive was hard enough but I cannot imagine the level of fatigue I would feel if I had been pounded by a suspension without rubber bushings.
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beastmode13
Member
NVH tolerance is personal. Only you can tell what is acceptable. As one of the early MPP Sports Coilovers with helper spring. I can attest that all the sqeaks drove me nuts after a few weeks. And the worst of all, the noises does not build confidence when you are driving the car hard, e.g. at the track. You soon will loose track which noise is normal and which noise is actual loose parts, etc.
So I take it you have not swapped out the helper springs for the replacement columns? I've had literally no noise other than a couple of adjustments 'sproings' early after installation.
The other consideration though about nvh is the different responses to long-term versus short-term exposure. A lot of people drive a car with replaced bushings and think initially "oh, this isn't too bad." But then over time all that extra noise and vibration and harshness gets to you. Especially on the highway.
Maybe I'm just getting too old for this stuff, but I had a similar experience with my first and only set of re71. Loved them in autocross but grew to hate them everywhere else. And since at that point I really couldn't afford two sets of wheels and tires I actually sold them before they wore out.
beastmode13
Member
Before I receive the collar from MPP. I would have intermittent noise from helper spring touching the aluminum collar of the top hat. I decided to spray some lube on the aluminum collar. It seems to silent the noise completely for 2-3 months. Which amounts to about the same frequency that I swap wheels from street/track. Now a light spray of lube is part of routine I do when I swap wheels. If the lube stopped working, I will switch to the MPP collar.
beastmode13
Member
One thing to consider for NVH. EV doesn’t have the engine to mask any of the noise. You will hear suspension noises that you don’t hear with ICE cars. You will hear everything.
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