Vehicle to home power during emergency

[deonb]

Closer to home than you'd think.
https://www.quora.com/In-what-places-is-it-prohibited-or-punished-to-be-off-the-grid

There's nothing in that link that points to an instance of off-grid electricity being illegal.

Off-grid water is illegal in a few places for obvious reasons, and living without electricity whatsoever is against fire code since our homes are no longer constructed with heavy candle usage in mind. You also can't stay in an RV in some places on land that's not zoned for it. But all of those are different from what we're talking about here.

I don't see an instance where a Solar + Powerwall model would be breaking any laws in the U.S.

 

[KarenRei]

So, this was just tweeted by Musk, and makes it sound like you can use solar as backup with a powerwall:

During Irma’s Power Outages, Some Houses Kept The Lights On With Solar And Batteries

 

[montreid]

Agree with OP -- there's no GOOD reason not to be able to do V2x with a Tesla car.

It's NOT IN TESLA's interest to let you do this. As several posters have mentioned -- 'buy the Powerwall'. That's exactly what Elon and stockholders want and hope the brainwashed masses do by plucking down another $10k for additional batteries and installs to feed the Gigafactory and overpaid SolarCity debt. -- the warranty voiding is just another legal barrier Tesla is putting up to make sure sales are through put into Powerwalls.

It's safe and easy to draw DC from batteries. Both Honda and Nissan have proven that with their systems. Folk will say the cycles will run down the battery even faster. Powerwall 7KwH will cycle deeper yet have essentially the same warranty. Even with 2 Powerwalls at 14KwH, that represents 50 miles of charge that's at a slow drain of 3-6kw in the V2H/Powerwall application---hardly a fast draw on the battery use scenario in support compared to what a BEV demands.

V2G demonstrations using Nissan Leaf batteries with NO TAM in Denmark have proven viable abilities without damage on capacities. UCSD is about to do another V2G project too on this with the Leaf again on their Microgrid.

Poster earlier mentioned the potential abuse with arbitrage with the superchargers, but that's A LOT of work for minimal TOU peak rate return -- solution ===get rid of free supercharging.

The real solution Tesla should offer -- Powerwall 2.0 with an optional plug in for Tesla EV into it to leverage longer use needs in emergency backup. Everyone gets to their cake and eat it too. Sales for SolarCity; orders for the GigaFactory , AND Green/extended backups.

Nissan will eventually force Tesla's hand once they start making their own energy systems available and allow the passthrough connection to happen.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Agree with OP -- there's no GOOD reason not to be able to do V2x with a Tesla car.

It's NOT IN TESLA's interest to let you do this. As several posters have mentioned -- 'buy the Powerwall'. That's exactly what Elon and stockholders want and hope the brainwashed masses do by plucking down another $10k for additional batteries and installs to feed the Gigafactory and overpaid SolarCity debt. -- the warranty voiding is just another legal barrier Tesla is putting up to make sure sales are through put into Powerwalls.

Again, Tesla explicitly disallowed V2G applications even in the Roadster (way before Tesla energy).

It's safe and easy to draw DC from batteries. Both Honda and Nissan have proven that with their systems. Folk will say the cycles will run down the battery even faster. Powerwall 7KwH will cycle deeper yet have essentially the same warranty. Even with 2 Powerwalls at 14KwH, that represents 50 miles of charge that's at a slow drain of 3-6kw in the V2H/Powerwall application---hardly a fast draw on the battery use scenario in support compared to what a BEV demands.

The discontinuing of the 10kWh is actually telling. The 10kWh used NCA cells like in the cars. The 7kWh and updated Powerwall 2 uses NMC. NCA has worse cycle life than NMC.

The car warranty (either unlimited or based on miles) simply is not compatible with V2G usage. The Powerwall warranties are either based on cycles or MWhs.

V2G demonstrations using Nissan Leaf batteries with NO TAM in Denmark have proven viable abilities without damage on capacities. UCSD is about to do another V2G project too on this with the Leaf again on their Microgrid.

Funny to say that when the Leaf has been proven to be one of the worse EVs in terms of degradation, especially in warmer climates. This claim is definitely citation required.

Poster earlier mentioned the potential abuse with arbitrage with the superchargers, but that's A LOT of work for minimal TOU peak rate return -- solution ===get rid of free supercharging.

Others already chimed in that in Japan, people who have V2G do transport electricity from public chargers for home use even when the electricity isn't free (although it is discounted). It's actually not that much work. 15 minutes is enough to get enough power for a whole day of average American household electricity use. If the supercharger is at a mall they visit anyways, they can do it while shopping.

As for getting rid of free supercharging, they can't do that for existing customers. Second of all, the marketing value of free supercharging is far higher than the niche application of using the car as backup power.

The real solution Tesla should offer -- Powerwall 2.0 with an optional plug in for Tesla EV into it to leverage longer use needs in emergency backup. Everyone gets to their cake and eat it too. Sales for SolarCity; orders for the GigaFactory , AND Green/extended backups.

Nissan will eventually force Tesla's hand once they start making their own energy systems available and allow the passthrough connection to happen.

Given the unit required to make the Nissan solution work costs about $4000 (almost the cost of a Powerwall 2 which includes the batteries), I don't think the uptake will be very high and I don't think Tesla will have much pressure.

 

[montreid]

Someone's drinking the Tesla Koolaid

Again, Tesla explicitly disallowed V2G applications even in the Roadster (way before Tesla energy).

Just because Tesla says 'no', doesn't mean it's not viable. They say 'no' because it's not in THEIR best interest. Until Tesla's powerbrokering, Grid-Tied Batteries were explicited prohibited by the Utilities to avoid arbitrage. They may claim other reasons like spikes and sort, but if that were true, those who did it after installs surely didn't brown out or black out their neighborhoods.

The discontinuing of the 10kWh is actually telling. The 10kWh used NCA cells like in the cars. The 7kWh and updated Powerwall 2 uses NMC. NCA has worse cycle life than NMC.

Supposition. Elon said low demand for it. They also cancalled Powerwall 1.0 and completely redesigned 2.0 setup---perhaps no demand for 1.0 right?

The only thing confirmed on batteries is that Powerwall 2.0 is using the new
batteries that are the same batteries for the Model 3 out the Gigafactory. I have not seen any reports of differing chemistries between the two sets despite people flexing the NMC/NCA theory.

The car warranty (either unlimited or based on miles) simply is not compatible with V2G usage. The Powerwall warranties are either based on cycles or MWhs.

Supposition again. No proof otherwise.

Funny to say that when the Leaf has been proven to be one of the worse EVs in terms of degradation, especially in warmer climates. This claim is definitely citation required.

HERE and insideevs.com had also. My point exactly; Leaf has a terrible reputation chiefly without TAM -- and believe that's more from the fast DC issues on heat management, yet it STILL WORKS.

Extending your concern on degradation--so driving your car at highway speeds for an additional 40miles a day (which is higher strain on the battery than a fully utilized PW2.0 situation with daily cycles) will cause enhanced degradation of your car battery? Evidence is showing that if you mid-cycle your EV, it's actually a bit better -- see reference.

Others already chimed in that in Japan, people who have V2G do transport electricity from public chargers for home use even when the electricity isn't free (although it is discounted). It's actually not that much work. 15 minutes is enough to get enough power for a whole day of average American household electricity use. If the supercharger is at a mall they visit anyways, they can do it while shopping.

As for getting rid of free supercharging, they can't do that for existing customers. Second of all, the marketing value of free supercharging is far higher than the niche application of using the car as backup power

Again, Tesla Koolaid and financial protection to Tesla - Not a viable reason for V2H not being a viable solution

Given the unit required to make the Nissan solution work costs about $4000 (almost the cost of a Powerwall 2 which includes the batteries), I don't think the uptake will be very high and I don't think Tesla will have much pressure.

HERE and costs 330,000 yen = ~$3000. That's still cheaper than PW 2.0 and it connects a much larger battery option. Cheaper is cheaper.


--The powerwall is great. It would be better if Tesla was truly a full partner in being green and allow for a pass through connection to the tesla EVs; but alas the all mighty dollar rules

 

[KarenRei]

There's another potential thing one could add to the list of what powerwalls could eventually provide: fast DC charging at home. Probably not realistic at present, but after 5-10 years it very well could be. Nothing stops the Powerwall from discharging quickly, after all.

Not that home DC charging is super-essential. But you know there's some minority of buyers who would consider that their must-have feature.

 

[david_42]

The only times we have lost power in seven years has been when a tree or branch from the property across the street has taken out the utility lines. If the owner sells soon, I expect a developer to bulldoze the house and cut down 80% of the trees, as the lot is big enough to build 3 or 4 homes. That would eliminate the most likely source of outages.

Solar makes zero sense in the Portland, OR area. The only person I know who has a solar setup said he gets usable power three months of the year and his payoff time is over 40 years.

I've got a 4500 watt generator from my previous home and lots of extension cords. I actually get some use out of the generator, as our lot is deep enough that it is easier and safer to run the generator when using electric tools (cultivator, leaf blower, chipper, etc) out back.

 

[DenBur]

How about installing rollers and a generator in the garage

/s

Are you related to Rube Goldberg?