Who in Maryland has applied for the Pepco Time of Use Discounted EV Charging?

[DCEV]

I came across the page below outlining the Pepco Electric Vehicle Program for Maryland customers. Has anyone applied for it and know how the process works? I see a link to a PDF form to flll out but no information on how to submit it.

Wonder what the savings are and how to sign up.

Electric Vehicle Program (MD) | Pepco - An Exelon Company

 

[ewoodrick]

Don't assume that a TOU rate is cheaper. Depending on your normal usage, it could be significantly more expensive. Remember, it's the rest of the house that uses a lot more energy than charging the car.

 

[DCEV]

Don't assume that a TOU rate is cheaper. Depending on your normal usage, it could be significantly more expensive. Remember, it's the rest of the house that uses a lot more energy than charging the car.

Wait, what?

I thought with TOU pricing you get the usual rate you always pay during the daytime and then the lower rate at night.

Has anyone contacted Pepco in Maryland to see what the current situation is with regards to any special EV/TOU pricing?

 

[preilly44]

I did the math when this program first came out years ago (unless it has changed since then) and it was much more expensive for me.

Since then, I put 67 solar panels up...that's the way to go...

 

[David.85D]

Watch out for this program. The daytime rate is way more than the usual price you’d pay. Seems to only make sense for applications where all load could be shifted to night (like you have a separate meter just for charging).

AND, just to really piss you off, you can’t combine it with net metering (as in - anyone with solar panels)

Run away ... call your congressman ... smoke and mirrors ...

 

[gnuarm]

Wait, what?

I thought with TOU pricing you get the usual rate you always pay during the daytime and then the lower rate at night.

Has anyone contacted Pepco in Maryland to see what the current situation is with regards to any special EV/TOU pricing?

Wow! They charge the high rate from noon until 8 PM which is pretty onerous. Clearly they are not looking for anyone to use this plan.

I'm on ToU with Rappahannock in central VA. In the summer peak rates are around $0.38 / kWh and off peak $0.08. Peak hours are 3 to 7 pm. The rest of the year peak rates are $0.21 / kWh and peak times are 6 to 9 am and 5 to 8 pm. The idea is the utility has to pay higher rates during peak times for generation since providers have to fire up generators they don't use the rest of the day, so they get a much higher rate for that electricity.

Before I switched service they had asked for voluntary cutbacks during summer peak and I programmed my thermostat to cut off the AC during peak time. Temperatures rose three or four degrees before coming back on at 8 pm, so not too bad. When I got an EV I switched my service and programmed the thermostat to cut off the heat during the winter peak times. Again, not bad. My last bill had some 700 kWh of service but only 14 kWh of peak charges.

Just like with Pepco, you can't have net metering with your own power generation and also get ToU metering. You can however get ToU metering and install solar that only supplies the house without feeding back to the power company. I don't know how many installers know how to do this though.

If you aren't interested in cutting back your heat and AC during peak times it will likely cost you more, especially on a plan where peak rates are from noon to 8 pm!!!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Wow! They charge the high rate from noon until 8 PM which is pretty onerous. Clearly they are not looking for anyone to use this plan.

I'm on ToU with Rappahannock in central VA. In the summer peak rates are around $0.38 / kWh and off peak $0.08. Peak hours are 3 to 7 pm. The rest of the year peak rates are $0.21 / kWh and peak times are 6 to 9 am and 5 to 8 pm. The idea is the utility has to pay higher rates during peak times for generation since providers have to fire up generators they don't use the rest of the day, so they get a much higher rate for that electricity.

It just depends on the shape of demand.
Here the basic TOU (delivery only) has peak prices 7am-8pm weekdays (except holidays), and the more extreme "optional" TOU (which I'm on) has additional off-peak pricing for the shoulder period 12pm-4pm.

There used to be such a large service fee for the optional TOU plans that it wasn't worth it. But when they made it the same as the basic TOU I jumped.

It helped my decision that I can download my smartmeter data and do the calculation myself to pick the right tariff.
If the OP can do that, to see the basic numbers from historic data, they should be able to figure out if and where they can make any necessary adjustments.

Something to note is that TOU pricing shifts the economics of energy efficiency, with better insulation and a more efficient cooling system saving more on peak pricing at the margin.

 

[gnuarm]

It just depends on the shape of demand.
Here the basic TOU (delivery only) has peak prices 7am-8pm weekdays (except holidays), and the more extreme "optional" TOU (which I'm on) has additional off-peak pricing for the shoulder period 12pm-4pm.

There used to be such a large service fee for the optional TOU plans that it wasn't worth it. But when they made it the same as the basic TOU I jumped.

It helped my decision that I can download my smartmeter data and do the calculation myself to pick the right tariff.

Those are some weird times. If you look at the general electric usage graph you will find there is a small morning peak as usage ramps up from the night time low. During the day it is fairly level until later in the afternoon when it has another, more pronounced peak until falling off to the night time usage. Charging you higher rates to promote conservation during the noon to 4 pm period does pretty much nothing to mitigate their peak costs which are from 4 to 8 pm.

By (delivery only) I assume you mean "distribution" which is the term I've always seen for the local utility charges of their distribution network. Most of their costs are fixed and they typically have a base charge plus a rate which is sometimes variable dropping with higher usage. Rappahannock is schizophrenic charging you a lower distribution rate with higher usage and a higher supply rate with higher usage. Go figure!

 

[willow_hiller]

We did some napkin math on this rate and concluded it's not worth it unless you have a dedicated disconnect for your EVSE.

Full rates effective until Sept 2019 are available here https://www.pepco.com/MyAccount/MyB...ctive 040119 Rider SOS to include R-TOU-P.pdf

The EV-only rate starts on page 37/138. Looks like a super-cheap $0.01710 per kwhr. And is only effective for your car, and the outlet is only operative from 8 pm to 8 am.

The TOU pilot program rates are on page 77/138. It's effective for the whole home and offers a very tempting $0.02274 per kWh during off-peak hours (8 PM to 8 AM weekdays, and all weekends); but the on-peak rate is an abysmal $0.19910 per kWh. And that's all before taxes, fees, etc. If we compare like for like, my rate for my last electricity bill was $0.0327100 per kWh. More than the TOU off-peak rate, but certainly less than an average between the TOU off-peak and on-peak rates.

I've been tracking my effective price per kwh by taking the total price after all taxes and fees and dividing by the kwh usage for the last year or so. Chart attached below, but we're getting an average of $0.1439 per kWh, and I doubt we could beat that with the TOU program.

 

[DCEV]

We did some napkin math on this rate and concluded it's not worth it unless you have a dedicated disconnect for your EVSE.

Full rates effective until Sept 2019 are available here https://www.pepco.com/MyAccount/MyBillUsage/Documents/MD Pepco Current Rate Schedule effective 040119 Rider SOS to include R-TOU-P.pdf

The EV-only rate starts on page 37/138. Looks like a super-cheap $0.01710 per kwhr. And is only effective for your car, and the outlet is only operative from 8 pm to 8 am.

The TOU pilot program rates are on page 77/138. It's effective for the whole home and offers a very tempting $0.02274 per kWh during off-peak hours (8 PM to 8 AM weekdays, and all weekends); but the on-peak rate is an abysmal $0.19910 per kWh. And that's all before taxes, fees, etc. If we compare like for like, my rate for my last electricity bill was $0.0327100 per kWh. More than the TOU off-peak rate, but certainly less than an average between the TOU off-peak and on-peak rates.

I've been tracking my effective price per kwh by taking the total price after all taxes and fees and dividing by the kwh usage for the last year or so. Chart attached below, but we're getting an average of $0.1439 per kWh, and I doubt we could beat that with the TOU program.

View attachment 400103

Okay so I did the same math too and my numbers add up very similar to yours.

This whole PEPCO EV TOU "Electric Vehicle Program" pricing scheme seems like a scam from what I can tell. You'd think they'd offer the same rate for peak as you pay now and then offer a discount for off peak use, but oh no. They totally screw you over during peak hours where your peak charge is almost 50% more than you pay now. So any night time savings are obliterated by the $.19 off peak rate, which is completely ridiculous.

Now I need to figure out how to cancel my application, which they have "approved" so that I'm not completely screwed.

Who came up with and approved of this rip off anyway? Who can I report to the dishonest way they are running this program by not disclosing the fact that by receiving a better off peak rate, they will then increase what you pay during the peak hours? Are the regulated by Montgomery County or the sate of Maryland. Should I report this to: The Electricity Division - Electricity

Oh and by the way, they conveniently have no phone number and they only correspond via email, replying only to emails that they feel like replying to. Also nowhere on the PEPCO EV Plan Web page do they say anything about increasing your peak charges when you sign up for this.

 

[gnuarm]

Okay so I did the same math too and my numbers add up very similar to yours.

This whole PEPCO EV TOU "Electric Vehicle Program" pricing scheme seems like a scam from what I can tell. You'd think they'd offer the same rate for peak as you pay now and then offer a discount for off peak use, but oh no. They totally screw you over during peak hours where your peak charge is almost 50% more than you pay now. So any night time savings are obliterated by the $.19 off peak rate, which is completely ridiculous.

Now I need to figure out how to cancel my application, which they have "approved" so that I'm not completely screwed.

Who came up with and approved of this rip off anyway? Who can I report to the dishonest way they are running this program by not disclosing the fact that by receiving a better off peak rate, they will then increase what you pay during the peak hours? Are the regulated by Montgomery County or the sate of Maryland. Should I report this to: The Electricity Division - Electricity

Oh and by the way, they conveniently have no phone number and they only correspond via email, replying only to emails that they feel like replying to. Also nowhere on the PEPCO EV Plan Web page do they say anything about increasing your peak charges when you sign up for this.

Sorry for your troubles, but I suspect the best you can do it to contact Pepco and tell them you are not interested after all. The good part is even if they make you stay in the program for a month, this is a time when you won't have much in the way of AC or heating costs, so it won't be too bad.

As to the public service commission, I had a problem with my utility in Viriginia and ended up contacting the PSC about it. Rappahannock had changed over to a new computer system and web site and I could not download the last bill. After several phone calls they insisted it would be impossible to send me a PDF of my last bill from before the change. I sent an email to the PSC and later that same day I received a statement from Rappahannock by email. In general the electric companies are very concerned about getting the attention of the PSC. Same with insurance companies.

I don't know the PSC will do anything to help you, but they are the ones who approve all the rates, so you should let them know you don't care for the pricing on this plan.

I'm not sure what you expect really. Unless they installed a new meter just for the car, how would they know your usage was for the car and not the house? They aren't going to give you something for nothing by just lowering the rates at night.

I tried to explore the Peak Energy Savings Credit, but I guess I'm with a different utility in Maryland. I'm with Potomac Edison and you are with Pepco which actually are not the same thing. You might look into this. If you don't mind turning down or off your AC in the summer afternoons, or better yet, have a smart thernostat you can control from your phone, it looks like you can save some significant money during summer peaks. The gotcha on this program is that you only get the credit once your peak usage drops below your average consumption rate. I think that means turning off the AC and anything else using much electricity during the announced peak times. Certainly you don't want to be charging the car. But once you get below the average $1.25 per kWh is nothing to sneeze at. The question is what average are they talking about? An average over the whole billing period, an average over the day or an average over the peak use time? It might be like dunking the basketball at the carnival.

 

[gnuarm]

PS When I clicked your link for the PEPCO web page there was a banner at the top of the page about public hearings for rate increases. You should get all the information you can before you attend the hearing and then raise a voice. The various savings plans should be revenue neutral without changing your usage for a typical customer. Then you get a savings by changing your usage which saves the company money. It's not clear to me they set up these plans that way.

I lived in PG county when in college and they instituted a tiered billing plan that encouraged water savings. The boneheads vastly underestimated how much water it would save and had to up everyone's water bills to compensate for the lost revenue. Seems water companies have rather high fixed costs and not much in the way of per unit costs. That's the sort of thing electric companies want to avoid with programs like the ToU billing.

 

[DCEV]

Sorry for your troubles, but I suspect the best you can do it to contact Pepco and tell them you are not interested after all. The good part is even if they make you stay in the program for a month, this is a time when you won't have much in the way of AC or heating costs, so it won't be too bad.

As to the public service commission, I had a problem with my utility in Viriginia and ended up contacting the PSC about it. Rappahannock had changed over to a new computer system and web site and I could not download the last bill. After several phone calls they insisted it would be impossible to send me a PDF of my last bill from before the change. I sent an email to the PSC and later that same day I received a statement from Rappahannock by email. In general the electric companies are very concerned about getting the attention of the PSC. Same with insurance companies.

I don't know the PSC will do anything to help you, but they are the ones who approve all the rates, so you should let them know you don't care for the pricing on this plan.

I'm not sure what you expect really. Unless they installed a new meter just for the car, how would they know your usage was for the car and not the house? They aren't going to give you something for nothing by just lowering the rates at night.

I tried to explore the Peak Energy Savings Credit, but I guess I'm with a different utility in Maryland. I'm with Potomac Edison and you are with Pepco which actually are not the same thing. You might look into this. If you don't mind turning down or off your AC in the summer afternoons, or better yet, have a smart thernostat you can control from your phone, it looks like you can save some significant money during summer peaks. The gotcha on this program is that you only get the credit once your peak usage drops below your average consumption rate. I think that means turning off the AC and anything else using much electricity during the announced peak times. Certainly you don't want to be charging the car. But once you get below the average $1.25 per kWh is nothing to sneeze at. The question is what average are they talking about? An average over the whole billing period, an average over the day or an average over the peak use time? It might be like dunking the basketball at the carnival.

What I want them to do is to be honest about their program and not come across as a scam. I have enclosed a screen capture of their Web page at Electric Vehicle Program (MD) | Pepco - An Exelon Company

They misleadingly imply how this will save money but nowhere do they tell you until you essentially sign up that your peak rate almost doubles to $.19. This is super deceptive. Also it took me hours of research and going through a rate publication of dozens of pages to figure this out.

 

[gnuarm]

What I want them to do is to be honest about their program and not come across as a scam. I have enclosed a screen capture of their Web page at Electric Vehicle Program (MD) | Pepco - An Exelon Company

They misleadingly imply how this will save money but nowhere do they tell you until you essentially sign up that your peak rate almost doubles to $.19. This is super deceptive. Also it took me about half an hour of research and going through a rate publication of dozens of pages to figure this out.

View attachment 400568

Yeah, if the fact that the utility's rates are not so easy to find and read bothers you, don't ever try to read laws. There are so many things that affect you every day that you likely would not be happy with. Here's a small one. By accepting the terms and conditions of a forum like this, you have agreed to whatever is in them which you likely have not read, but worse, they are allowed to change them at any time and you automatically agree to the new T&C without ever having read them! Do you know where your first born male child is? Still worse, many states have passed laws such that at web sites you have not expressly agreed to T&Cs, simply by using the web site you have agreed to those T&Cs. I have looked for the T&Cs on any number of web sites and found broken links! How can I be bound by T&Cs I can't read???

It seems reasonable to me that PEPCO would make you aware of the conditions and rates before you sign up. In particular, that web page which says "save money" needs to be justified, but notice it says, "By shifting some of the demand for electricity from peak to off-peak hours"... That *is* the point of ToU billing. To encourage you to change your usage. But I think it should start out revenue neutral and provide savings for YOU by saving the utility money, not just saving the utility money.

In California I believe many consumers face tiered billing where your rates increase not with time of day (which is how the utility rates are set) but by total usage during the month. Someone with a tiny house gets a lower electric cost than someone with a larger house.

 

[DCEV]

Yeah, if the fact that the utility's rates are not so easy to find and read bothers you, don't ever try to read laws. There are so many things that affect you every day that you likely would not be happy with. Here's a small one. By accepting the terms and conditions of a forum like this, you have agreed to whatever is in them which you likely have not read, but worse, they are allowed to change them at any time and you automatically agree to the new T&C without ever having read them! Do you know where your first born male child is? Still worse, many states have passed laws such that at web sites you have not expressly agreed to T&Cs, simply by using the web site you have agreed to those T&Cs. I have looked for the T&Cs on any number of web sites and found broken links! How can I be bound by T&Cs I can't read???

It seems reasonable to me that PEPCO would make you aware of the conditions and rates before you sign up. In particular, that web page which says "save money" needs to be justified, but notice it says, "By shifting some of the demand for electricity from peak to off-peak hours"... That *is* the point of ToU billing. To encourage you to change your usage. But I think it should start out revenue neutral and provide savings for YOU by saving the utility money, not just saving the utility money.

In California I believe many consumers face tiered billing where your rates increase not with time of day (which is how the utility rates are set) but by total usage during the month. Someone with a tiny house gets a lower electric cost than someone with a larger house.

Great! I am glad that we both agree that if they are going to significantly increase what you pay for peak usage, they should disclose that.

 

[PhilDavid]

What I want them to do is to be honest about their program and not come across as a scam. I have enclosed a screen capture of their Web page at Electric Vehicle Program (MD) | Pepco - An Exelon Company

They misleadingly imply how this will save money but nowhere do they tell you until you essentially sign up that your peak rate almost doubles to $.19. This is super deceptive. Also it took me hours of research and going through a rate publication of dozens of pages to figure this out.

View attachment 400568

So basically what PEPCO is selling for EV customers is basically a sham as for most of those customers, the savings will be very limited or might actually cost them more based on their AC usage during the day. I get shifting demand to off peak hours but there certain electrical consumption, such as for the AC, can't really be shifted if you have people living in the house.

PEPCO should state exactly what the fee schedule would be with this program rather than burring it in a 120 page rate schedule.

This whole notion customers are expected to find a rate schedule and locate the relevant sections in a 120 page rate schedule to learn what the rates under this program is preposterous. They should publish the rate information on the actual EV Program Web site and state how this results in higher fees during the day time.

 

[gnuarm]

So basically what PEPCO is selling for EV customers is basically a sham as for most of those customers, the savings will be very limited or might actually cost them more based on their AC usage during the day. I get shifting demand to off peak hours but there certain electrical consumption, such as for the AC, can't really be shifted if you have people living in the house.

PEPCO should state exactly what the fee schedule would be with this program rather than burring it in a 120 page rate schedule.

This whole notion customers are expected to find a rate schedule and locate the relevant sections in a 120 page rate schedule to learn what the rates under this program is preposterous. They should publish the rate information on the actual EV Program Web site and state how this results in higher fees during the day time.

I can't agree with you more. They meet the letter of "the law" by posting the rate schedules. But they should have to meet the same truth in advertising rules as anyone else. The front page "save money" should not be shown without at least a mention of the actual rate structure. The way to make your voice heard is to attend the public hearings for rate increases that are upcoming. They only change the rates once in a while and you need to make yourself heard. The PSC understands that only a tiny fraction of the customers ever attend the meetings. So every voice heard there is like 100 or even 1000 voices to them. Get organized and bring others to the meeting and get on the list to speak. Calmly explain how you read the "ad" and thought it was a way to save money. I would ask if the utility is exempt from truth in advertising laws. I'm pretty sure the web page would be considered misleading by federal regulation.

 

[David.85D]

I think Pepco is being dishonest in how they market this plan, but it does have a purpose. It would work fine if you had a second meter installed just for car charging.

Given that a 10,000 miles/year driver spends around $500 a year in electricity, even cutting that in half is a $250 a year savings, so hard to justify a $1000 to $2000 expense in the second meter.

BUT, if you had, say, two Tesla’s, and drove them more, it would start to make sense.

 

[DCEV]

I think Pepco is being dishonest in how they market this plan, but it does have a purpose. It would work fine if you had a second meter installed just for car charging.

Given that a 10,000 miles/year driver spends around $500 a year in electricity, even cutting that in half is a $250 a year savings, so hard to justify a $1000 to $2000 expense in the second meter.

BUT, if you had, say, two Tesla’s, and drove them more, it would start to make sense.

All I can say is that I'm glad that I ran away from it...

 

[Bluchip]

Hi I have been part of this program since 2015. Something strange happened in the last few months. I have a dedicated charger. In September, 2018 I used 236 kw and paid $28.76. In April 2019, I used 258kw and was charged $26.11. By September, I used 270 kw and the Bill went to $41.89. In October, I used 372 kw and was charged $49.14. All of the charging is off peak. Any thought from other Pepco users as to what is going on?