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40bit vs 80bit key fob?

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To phrase a different way, is there a way to identify the new more secure fobs?

Thanks for the clarification, otherwise I was going to suggest asking:). I have an annual service tomorrow and have also asked for the new fobs to replace my existing ones, so I will ask at the SvC. Perchance someone else may provide the answer before then..
 
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There is no point focusing on the 40bit vs 80bit FOB at all. The newer FOB doesn't solve any potential threats. If you wan't to play it safe, you have to stick with passive entry off and pin to drive on.
interesting... I thought it was specifically created to counter the threat of hackers being able to gain access to the vehicle. Pin to drive and turning off passive entry are both countermeasures to having a weak encryption on the original FOBs.. Why create a new 80bit FOB if it doesn't solve those issues?
 
There is no point focusing on the 40bit vs 80bit FOB at all. The newer FOB doesn't solve any potential threats. If you wan't to play it safe, you have to stick with passive entry off and pin to drive on.
Indeed! Relay attacks are still possible with 80 bits.

I did exactly that. Passive Entry is off and PIN to Drive is On.

interesting... I thought it was specifically created to counter the threat of hackers being able to gain access to the vehicle. Pin to drive and turning off passive entry are both countermeasures to having a weak encryption on the original FOBs.. Why create a new 80bit FOB if it doesn't solve those issues?
80-bits makes it more difficult to brute force the key's code, but it doesn't solve the relay attack vector.

So yes, the 80-bits are safer, but they do not solve the relay attack problem.

With a relay attack you are just relaying/forwarding that super secret message between the car and the key without modifying it in any way.
 
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Well, there are 2 different known attacks:
1) relay - it doesn't care if the keyfob is 40, 80 or 8millions bit. It simply relay the signal from your keyfob to the car when you are not near the car. The attackers need 2 piece of hardware: a receiver (to be held close to the keyfob) and a transmitter (to be held close to the car); receiver and transmitter can be miles apart. Well known attack in Europe, less frequent in USA. This is where removing passive entry, and activating Pin2Drive will prevent such attacks. (this is valid for any car with passive entry, not only for Tesla)
2) keyfob cloning - this attack has been demonstrated by a group of researcher, but there are no reports of it being used in the wild. Here an 80bit fob will make the difference to a 40bit one. With such an attack the attackers can "clone" your keyfob and use it as they like: they will have a copy of your keyfob. In such a case disabling passive entry will do nothing to protect you. On the contrary, activating Pin2Drive will still prevent the attackers from stealing your car (but they can steal what's IN the car if they successfully clone the keyfob).

I'm sure someone posted a picture of an open 80bit keyfob, to show how to tell it apart from an 40bit one looking at the part/serial number, but can not find it atm.
 
If u figure out how to distinguish between the two definitely let us know please! :)

At SvC now. What @f205v said is likely the answer per Service Advisor. They don't have the new fobs in yet, so can't confirm.

Like you, I appreciate the information shared by others. I will mull that over. Atm, still leaning toward new fobs. I already have pin to drive enabled.
 
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I got one of the new fobs this past weekend at my annual service appointment.

They are completely identical to the 40bit fobs. The service center made sure to keep the original fobs (they were getting their batteries changed) in a separate bag from the new fob. You wouldn't be able to tell them apart otherwise.

On a related note, the presence of one of the new 80bit fobs in the car, along with both of the original 40bit fobs caused my steering wheel to stop being adjustable. It stopped moving up or down, in or out. Totally would not respond to the adjustment joystick on the side, or a change in driver profiles that would normally move the wheel. The service center ended up keeping my MS a couple extra days so they could consult with engineering about it. Last I heard they determined that they had to swap some sort of body module (their words) to resolve the issue.
 
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