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Adaptive air suspension makes me pause...
- Thread starter MitchV
- Start date
You are dead wrong, NO Toyota Land Cruisers in the USA have air. Air suspension uses compressed air, the land cruiser uses hydraulic fluid.
Again, I own a 2013 LX 570 (200 series land cruiser in disguise) It has active hydraulic (liquid not air) With springs, Toyota calls it AHC. It can raise, lower, actively dampened, and adjust ride feel. It was available on the 100 series that ran from 1998-2007 and is on the 200 series that is mostly mechanically unchanged since 2007 and will run through at least 2022. In the USA Lexus LX gets AHC, Toyota Land Cruiser it isn’t an option. Around the rest of the world the Toyota has AHC as an option but it is the same hydraulic (not air) system the Lexus has in the USA.
The Prado (which is arguably not a true land cruiser) in Australia, has an option of air on the rear wheels. But from what I see on the land cruiser form I regular, is the off road crowd either don’t get the air option or pull it out first thing.
see below from the service schedule, replace FLUID.
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What's part number 4800660024 then 2019 Toyota Land Cruiser Air Suspension Compressor. System, ACTIVE, Brakes - 4800660024 - Genuine Toyota Part
Looks like it’s For a Prado VX. Rear air for the tow package and again Prado is not available in the US. My guess is It works with load level bags that inflate within the springs. Again you can’t buy a Prado in the USA. Probably Looks something like this:
It is something that you put in when towing and take out when not. Many of the off road guys with lifted (soft) aftermarket suspensions use them for towing.
Still don’t believe me, Here you go build your own and see if there is an air suspension option:
2020 Toyota Land Cruiser Luxury SUV | The timeless icon.
Still, still don’t believe me? Go to the this Land Cruiser enthusiast site and ask about the durability and off functionality of the “air suspension” on the 2019 Toyota 200 series Land Cruiser. I’ll be sitting back with popcorn...
200-Series Cruisers
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Ok went through all the diagrams not just the one I was looking at and you're right it's a ancillary air. ( I can admit when I'm wrong) but It is out of a 2019 Land Cruiser not a Prado and it is a permanent part not something you put in for towing only, There's one on each wheel all the way around, in addition to the Gas strut and spring, but that still isn't the point I was trying to make that was simply a (wrong as it turns out) example. While it's a somewhat a religious argument there's still a lot of support for Air Suspension in the off-road/4x4 world.
- The Land Rover Defender is a well known Air ride 4x4 that's un wide use today
- Despite my idiocy above a lot of people DO put full air ride in Land Cruisers and a lot of other offroad vehicles
Generally air ride is considered to provide a more comfortable ride and better handling than hydraulic suspension.
The issues with taking air off-road in addition to durability like I mentioned earlier are what 1 trying to keep minimum pressures at full extension?
the durability point is out the window if we're comparing to hydraulic suspension as it's just as prone to issues and failure and often more expensive to fix and service
so what's the issue besides adoption? we also need to make sure we're comparing apples to apples here as a lot of the existing examples are going to be from trucks with a solid rear axle which behaves much differently than independent which presumably the CT will be.
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Ok. If you look at the big picture I don’t think the land cruiser vs CT is a fair comparison. The Land Cruiser is Toyota’s halo vehicle. The current 200 series a 15 year old $90k+ hand built (all in Japan), archaic, beast of a truck, that ships ~8k trucks a year to the USA (~3k Toyota, ~5k Lexus LX). Go on the land cruiser forum and see the “I want to buy a land cruiser buy does it really not have apple play?...” posts. Think of them as the G wagon equivalent of Toyota. Land cruisers are built to a 25 year, 300k mike entirely off road service life. The KDSS in the land cruiser is a hydraulic Active disconnecting sway bar system and AHC is the “fancy” active dampening and ride height form. I agree 100% that modern air suspensions are robust and great for on road driving and the vast majority of CTs will never go off road. But no one in the off road community widely uses air for many reasons, the biggest is articulation (well loss there of) when the height is raised up. Articulation is at least as important was ground clearance. And air suspensions get firmer the more you raise them. With the AHC my suspension gets softer when raised due to the easing of the pressure on the springs. Look up ramp travel index, to put it in perspective a 200 series has more articulation than a 4 door Wrangler rubicon or gladiator rubicon with their sway bars disconnected.
When Toyota developed the hydraulic AHC, they were in their hay day. The system is much more expensive but also much more robust than air systems, some of the 15k GVW armored ”cruisers” use their system with “beefier” struts. Last time I was overseas I drove a 100 series with AHC with over 500k km of an all off-road life original suspension components. Can’t say that about a Rover let alone one with air. As for ride my LX is the softest riding vehicle I’ve ever driven but a sports car it is not even close.
I’ve owned at least one Land cruiser continuously over the last 30 years. (J60, 80 series, and my current 200). The land cruiser was (and still is) their halo vehicle, In my mind comparing one to a CT is like comparing the new roadster (Land Cruiser) to a corvette (CT). I put in a reservation for a CT day one but if I get one will keep my LX for the off-roading we do to get to hunting/fishing/camping/skiing/...
And still I’ll say the only close to valid off roader with Air is Land Rover but these days at least the first 2 owners never take them off road and when they are “built out” first thing done is pull the air for springs. And LR is consistently the worst brand for reliability on the JD power lost.
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Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
Really? They military uses this on gun trucks... it will handle your suburban needs pretty easy..
Those are both hydraulic fluid with springs. The LORD MR is like a cross between Toyota AHC and GM “magnetic”. So not air suspensions.
I have a Lexus LX suv with variable height suspension. It is hydraulic not air Suspension and designed mostly for off road issues rather than road driving. I envision the cybertruck to have more adaptive air height adjustment both on the road and off - at least that would be my hope. I also have a diesel Class A RV with air bag suspension and leveling. It is wonderfully practical. No jacks for leveling and the ride is very comfortable. The air bags adjust pressure as needed via a small pony air compressor. When the engine is turned off and leveling takes place the whole rig drops Closer to the ground for easier access. I think that gyros and adjustments could be updated to computerized Changes on the fly (so to speak). Both the RV and the Lexus level out if weight shifts, like when towing is engaged. I had the air bags on the RV checked last summer and after over ten years they still don’t need changing. Also, they are not very expensive if they do require change out. The system is somewhat complex and can be adjusted by a technician if needed. Lots of over the road trucks and buses have air bag Suspension. If that is what Elon has in mind for the cybertruck, I think it is brilliant. By the way, I ordered both the two and three motor version. Will choose the best characteristics that meet my needs as more information becomes available. The 500 mile range is particularly attractive to me as I am considering downsizing to a camper trailer in the next couple of years. Sorry the comments are long-ish, but I hope helpful to the dialogue.
Rothgarr
Active Member
I have a couple questions (concerns) about the CT suspension...
1) Do we know if we'll be able to set it to ride height to something pretty low, so that it's a firm ride when we want it?
2) My main concern is that it will ride like my wife's Honda Pilot which is so soft and squishy -- I hate it. My current Model 3 has a nice firm ride that I like.
1) Do we know if we'll be able to set it to ride height to something pretty low, so that it's a firm ride when we want it?
2) My main concern is that it will ride like my wife's Honda Pilot which is so soft and squishy -- I hate it. My current Model 3 has a nice firm ride that I like.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Bottom line is that we don't KNOW anything, but if it is anything like the air suspensions in the S and X you will be able to set it however you want it.
Dan
Musk did talk about the air suspension being used to help with cornering at one time. Whether it happens or not is up in the air.
That would require a very powerful compressor though to be able to quickly add pressure to one side (or maybe easier to reduce pressure in the off side), then recover after so you aren’t driving a lopsided car down the highway before or after the turn.
