Ap And Defensive Driving

[SDKoala]

@jyalpert, I'm with you. My commute features mostly surface streets where the flow of traffic is regularly 10-15 MPH over the speed limit, so using AP isn't an option for me most of the time. When I do get a chance to use it, I have a hard time trusting it because it doesn't anticipate, only reacts. It's like driving with a student driver that doesn't have the experience to know whether or not there's a real chance of a collision. I also find it more nerve-wracking sometimes to drive with AP because I feel I have to look out for weird things the car will do on top of weird things other drivers will do.

 

[groovidad]

I'm going to throw an analogy in. I've done some competitive combat shooting, in and out of the military. When you first start out, the key is to be so experienced, intimate, if you will, with the weapons you utilize. There is a learning curve that requires an exceptional amount of attention to detail, safety and functionality. That takes time: running through drills, dry runs, steady hold factors, sight adjustment/alignment, maximum effective range, bullet drop, and live fire and THIS is just in understanding the weapons capabilities and idiocyncrasies, we're not even close to run and gun...yet. Once mastery of the weapon is accomplished: sighting, immediate action in malfunctions, ammunition capabiliity, carry, breakdown, maintenance, assembly, hold factors, recoil, loading, reloading, etc. etc.(Repetitive, right?), THEN moving into firing scenarios or "run and gun".

In combat shooting, you're beginning an entirely new process which, if not performed with the highest level of safety, you could hurt yourself, others and lastly death could result, unintentionally. Again, there is a learning curve on moving, shooting, carry, ammunition, reloading and most paramount, safety. All this, while competing for time against your opponents. This all takes time. Some more than others BUT, you do not master either without time invested....a LOT of time and practice!

Now, small arms are not autonomous.....yet but, in the context of this thread, experience, mastery, ever vigilance and, above all, safety are key to confidence in my example. Adjusting to stationary, pop-up and moving targets, at different distances, height and size, all requiring a differing skill set. Lastly, after running a day of shoot houses or lanes, I'm exhausted. No so much physically, as I am mentally. You know your weapon, it's parts, what makes it work and how do use it efficiently and effectively (muscle memory) as if you could do it blindfolded. (That'll never happen!) So in comparison, the AP/FSD, new to most of us, requires more than using it only on empty streets or highways but, in every possible scenario to understand the advantages and limitations in any given situation. YET, one should always be prepared for the "unexpected".

 

[x t2m x]

For me AP is quite jerky unable to smoothly navigate situations (excessive thrust followed by excessive regen.), reacts to phantom objects, no understanding of 'courtesy' when sharing the road, but it's great when I need a quick nap (...kidding).

I am also less comfortable driving with AP engaged, anticipating if it will 'see' what I see and react appropriately.

Maybe when ALL cars are interlinked AP (and FSD) will be excellent.

 

[RTPEV]

• Use it more and you will understand its limits, which will instill trust. My reply to this is - I wish there were training or more documentation regarding what it's actually capable of. As it is, I'm not particularly happy to be surprised by the seemingly strange interventions and false positives of ELDA, for instance, so maybe I'm predisposed against this method as well.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The trust building process would proceed far more quickly if we really knew what the limits of the vehicle are. Sometimes, I guess you have to just feel it and give it a little more rope each time. A good example of this is: how hard will it actually brake if it needs to. At first, I would chicken out and hit the brakes myself, but I've gradually learned to trust it well past the point of where I would normally apply the brakes as a human driver. It would be great to see some official videos of some kind that showed just how hard the system will brake, but maybe a video wouldn't do it justice and you have to "feel" it for yourself.

But one place that I think a video would help would be in defensive driving type situations. For example, if you are directly next to a car and it starts to move into your lane. Will AP swerve to avoid a collision? I have no idea. I have always taken over in this situation.

Or how about when a wide truck is riding the line an encroaching in your lane. Will AP detect this and react? Again, I have no idea because I have always taken over.

Or how about road debris avoidance? Again, I would like to see some videos or documentation on what size debris (if any) would actually cause the car to react. I suspect that stationary debris (think a tire) still might not cause the system to react.

 

[RTPEV]

For me AP is quite jerky unable to smoothly navigate situations (excessive thrust followed by excessive regen.), reacts to phantom objects, no understanding of 'courtesy' when sharing the road,

When was the last time you used AP?

I find that it now is fairly courteous when it comes to letting people into the lane (it certainly didn't used to be), and at the same time it knows how to get into the passing lane even in heavy traffic.

The excessive thrust/excessive regen seems to only happen to me on on/off ramps as the max speed changes from 70 to 45 to 65 all in a very short span. This drives me nuts, although being on my commute and taking it every day I anticipate it and just keep my foot on the accelerator during that maneuver. But yes, if I were letting it stay in control, that kind of jerky speed behavior would be annoying to people behind me, and possibly dangerous.

 

[drtimhill]

I tend to agree with many of the other posts here. AP isn't about handing over safety to the car, its about letting BOTH you and the car handle safety in a complementary manner. The car contributes untiring vigilance for immediate needs (blind spot monitoring, fast evasive maneuvers and braking) while the human contributes deep situational awareness. Used this way I think AP is a great contribution both to safety and comfort.

 

[x t2m x]

I just think AP needs to advance further before I personally can surrender control to any degree AND feel comfortable at the same time.

It's not a complaint, AP progress is amazing.

 

[raptor5244]

In my experience AP brakes too late and overreacts to situations with herky jerky movements that may cause someone to rear end me. The fact that you can’t trust it yet creates more work for the driver since you have to babysit the system. It is like sitting in the passenger seat while teaching your kid to drive. The increased stress and anxiety makes me want to just drive myself.

Now for highway use cases it works pretty well and can reduce driver fatigue. It manages the throttle and steering in the lane while I watch for road debris and stay out of others blind spots.

If you really think about how much a driver deals with when driving, even many subconscious decisions are made. If it is wet we tend to slow down, if we see a biker we are watching them closely and moving a bit away from them or even changing lanes to create space. We know certain traffic patterns and anticipate what lanes to get in for upcoming turns. We see small road debris and potholes. We spot aggressive drivers, impaired drivers. We hear sirens and make way for first responders and the list goes on and on. I am all for FSD but lets be real, it is going to take a long time to get close to replicating the human brain.

These systems just need to be marketed as drivers assists, which definitely add value and increase overall safety you just can’t fully trust or depend on them anytime soon. I hope to be proven wrong.