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great assessment Dave...do you think there's a significant chance this momentum leads to new ATH before the Q4 earnings call?

i would say yes only because of the immense short position that is likely being significantly covered from this leading indicator announced today...but I suspect if we go above 200 it could get very volatile again soon after with daily 10-20 point swings down, then up, etc. for a while with new battles between the TSLA bears and bulls.

I'm not expecting to take out ATHs prior to Q4 ER but there's always the possibility. I was surprised we closed over $160 today. When I first heard the 6900 number I thought we were going over $160 but it could take a couple days. We'll have to see how buyers/sellers act over the next few to several days and see if there are more catalysts (ie., analyst upgrades, etc).

In coming weeks if it gets close to ATHs I'd expect to see a lot of selling pressure as people who bought up around there (ie., in late-Sept or early Oct) try to exit to end the pain they've been going through the past few months. I'd imagine a lot of people are thinking "once it gets back up to $200, i'm selling". So in order to break through $200, we might need some real upward pressure coming from some very strong positive catalysts (ie., super strong 2014 guidance, NHTSA clearing investigation, etc).
 
I'm not expecting to take out ATHs prior to Q4 ER but there's always the possibility. I was surprised we closed over $160 today. When I first heard the 6900 number I thought we were going over $160 but it could take a couple days. We'll have to see how buyers/sellers act over the next few to several days and see if there are more catalysts (ie., analyst upgrades, etc).

In coming weeks if it gets close to ATHs I'd expect to see a lot of selling pressure as people who bought up around there (ie., in late-Sept or early Oct) try to exit to end the pain they've been going through the past few months. I'd imagine a lot of people are thinking "once it gets back up to $200, i'm selling". So in order to break through $200, we might need some real upward pressure coming from some very strong positive catalysts (ie., super strong 2014 guidance, NHTSA clearing investigation, etc).

I agree fully. The stock will be bound to a (quite broad) range by people looking to end pain - if it rises, people who sat through the downturn will exit with a sigh of relief. If it goes down, shorts who got burned by the recent announcements will buy to cover.
 
Nissan sells 100,000 LEAFs since 2010 and why this is good news for Tesla

Nissan has recently announced that they’ve sold a cumulative 100,000 Nissan LEAFs since 2010:
Nissan Sells 100,000 LEAFs, Captures 48% Of Worldwide Market To Date

This is great news because it's showing that electric cars are picking up in adoption and acceptance. As you can see from the wikipedia chart below, Nissan LEAF sales have picked up in recent years, especially in 2013 when Nissan dropped the price of the LEAF significantly.


Growing sales of the Nissan LEAF is good news to Tesla Motors as well. The reason being is because there are actually two important factors for Tesla's future success:
1. The EV market must grow significantly and become a major market.
2. Whoever has the best product (ie., performance, value, reliability, etc) will take the largest market share in the EV market.

For Tesla, the EV market's overall size and growth is crucial. It's no use for Tesla if they have the best product but the EV market is minuscule and not growing. But a healthy and growing EV market gives the potential for Tesla to release their dominant products (Model S/X, Gen3, etc) and take a large market share of a large EV market.

In short, robust sales of the Nissan LEAF is validating the EV market and growing the pie for EV manufacturers in the future. As more and more people buy Nissan LEAFs (and other EVs), the awareness of electric vehicles grow and more and more people desire to buy one. As price goes down (or range goes up) this serves to attract buyers even more and accelerate the adoption rate.

This sets up Tesla for the release of Gen3 perfectly. By the time Tesla releases Gen3 (Model E) in late-2106 or early 2017, the EV market will likely have picked up significantly and the adoption/awareness of EVs will have increased substantially. In other words, people will be more open to buying an EV and it will be attractive to more people than ever. As long as Tesla delivers with their promise of a Gen3 car at $35,000 with the performance of a BMW 3 series and a range of 200 miles, then the demand will be there. In fact, I expect the demand to be off the charts. People will be drooling for this car like nothing we've ever seen before with a car.

Go EVs. Go Tesla.

Nissan Leaf sales by top national markets
between 2010 and 2013 CYTD[SUP](1)[/SUP]
CountryTotal2013
CYTD[SUP](1)[/SUP]
201220112010
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States[SUP][296][/SUP][SUP][299][/SUP][SUP][302][/SUP][SUP][355][/SUP]
35,58816,0769,8199,67419
23px-Flag_of_Japan.svg.png
Japan[SUP][158][/SUP][SUP][160][/SUP][SUP][161][/SUP][SUP][356][/SUP]
30,6679,22311,11510,31019
21px-Flag_of_Norway.svg.png
Norway[SUP][166][/SUP][SUP][167][/SUP]
5,7103,0392,298373
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
UK[SUP](2)[/SUP][SUP][252][/SUP][SUP][253][/SUP]
2,159825699635
23px-Flag_of_France.svg.png
France[SUP][169][/SUP]
1,56595852483
23px-Flag_of_Germany.svg.png
Germany[SUP][205][/SUP][SUP][214][/SUP]
1,172721451

23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png
Netherlands[SUP][221][/SUP][SUP][357][/SUP]
860301265294
23px-Flag_of_Canada.svg.png
Canada[SUP][185][/SUP]
792382240170
23px-Flag_of_Spain.svg.png
Spain[SUP][238][/SUP][SUP][239][/SUP][SUP][358][/SUP]
37616315459
23px-Flag_of_Italy.svg.png
Italy[SUP][218][/SUP][SUP][219][/SUP][SUP][359][/SUP]
3752241465
23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Sweden[SUP][360][/SUP][SUP][361][/SUP]
347218129

Total top markets[SUP](1)[/SUP]79,60832,12725,84021,60338
Note (1) CYTD: Calendar year to day, as of September 30, 2013. (2) UK sales through June 2013.
 
Nissan has recently announced that they’ve sold a cumulative 100,000 Nissan LEAFs since 2010:
Nissan Sells 100,000 LEAFs, Captures 48% Of Worldwide Market To Date

This is great news because it's showing that electric cars are picking up in adoption and acceptance. As you can see from the wikipedia chart below, Nissan LEAF sales have picked up in recent years, especially in 2013 when Nissan dropped the price of the LEAF significantly.


Growing sales of the Nissan LEAF is good news to Tesla Motors as well. The reason being is because there are actually two important factors for Tesla's future success:
1. The EV market must grow significantly and become a major market.
2. Whoever has the best product (ie., performance, value, reliability, etc) will take the largest market share in the EV market.

For Tesla, the EV market's overall size and growth is crucial. It's no use for Tesla if they have the best product but the EV market is minuscule and not growing. But a healthy and growing EV market gives the potential for Tesla to release their dominant products (Model S/X, Gen3, etc) and take a large market share of a large EV market.

In short, robust sales of the Nissan LEAF is validating the EV market and growing the pie for EV manufacturers in the future. As more and more people buy Nissan LEAFs (and other EVs), the awareness of electric vehicles grow and more and more people desire to buy one. As price goes down (or range goes up) this serves to attract buyers even more and accelerate the adoption rate.

This sets up Tesla for the release of Gen3 perfectly. By the time Tesla releases Gen3 (Model E) in late-2106 or early 2017, the EV market will likely have picked up significantly and the adoption/awareness of EVs will have increased substantially. In other words, people will be more open to buying an EV and it will be attractive to more people than ever. As long as Tesla delivers with their promise of a Gen3 car at $35,000 with the performance of a BMW 3 series and a range of 200 miles, then the demand will be there. In fact, I expect the demand to be off the charts. People will be drooling for this car like nothing we've ever seen before with a car.

I like this analogy.
As a matter of fact, they were showing commercials on TV this weekend during the football games that allude to this.
The guy says something like "I was interested in better gas mileage so I was thinking about getting a hybrid, so I went to look at a Prius. But I found that Ford has much better looking ones and so I bought one.."

I think expansion of the EV market is good for us
 
Fire in Toronto garage

Earlier today Business Insider published an article about a Tesla Model S catching on fire in a garage in Toronto.

Tesla’s official statement to Business Insider was: (bold emphasis mine)
“Dealing with occasional fires is something that every car company has to do, as no vehicle is completely fireproof under all circumstances. What matters is the number of such incidents per car, and it is worth noting that gasoline car companies experience an average of five to ten times more fires per car than Tesla. Also extremely important is the fact that there has never been a serious injury or death in a Model S as a result of a fire or any other cause. The Model S continues to have the best safety track record of any vehicle in the world. In this particular case, we don’t yet know the precise cause, but have definitively determined that it did not originate in the battery, the charging system, the adapter or the electrical receptacle, as these components were untouched by the fire.

There are some puzzling pieces to the story:
- According to the article, "The company also offered to take care of the damages and inconvenience caused by the fire, but the owner declined.” It’s puzzling why the owner would decline.
- Also, this story was published by Business Insider (a financial news site) on a day when Tesla closed at a all-time high and just prior to earnings being released next week. You can’t help but wonder who gave the author the lead and where is the author getting the info outside the official statement from Tesla.
- The article and Tesla’s statement is somewhat cryptic. We’re not sure what could have been the cause of the fire.

My initial reaction was that the fire could have been caused by some electrical issue from a modification the owner had made (ie., installed a radar detector, etc).

I heard that someone who contacted Tesla received an email from Tesla management referencing the Business Insider article as containing Tesla’s official statement and answering most questions. It appears that for now Tesla is okay with the Business Insider article’s take on the story.

I heard that someone else had conversations with Tesla and is saying that the cause of the fire seems to be related to the 12 volt system.

Regardless, it’s a tense time for TSLA investors as 4th quarter earnings is just days away (Feb 19th). Recently TSLA has been on a roll and closed today just off of $200. However, I think a lot of the rise is due to enthusiasm and expectations for the 4th quarter earnings report and guidance. The question is will this Toronto garage fire damper the enthusiastic/euphoric sentiment surrounding TSLA from this recent run, and if so how much.

Long-term this fire has no effect on the Tesla story or the company’s fundamentals. It’s completely innocuous in the bigger picture. However, this fire does have the potential to spoil the party mood TSLA’s been in recently and bring us into earnings with a more sober attitude. A lot will depend on how the market reacts to this event tomorrow.

On a side note, I'll be co-hosting w/sleepyhead a google hangout on Feb 19 evening to discuss Tesla's Q4 earnings and conference call (hangout details will be posted soon).
 
DaveT’s Q4 2014 Earnings Preview

Q4 2013 earnings is just a few days away (Feb 19) so I’ll share my Q4 estimates. The TMC community has been generous so it’s an honor to contribute.

Quick Summary:
$680m revenue (non-GAAP)
25.3% gross margin excluding ZEV income
$34m income (non-GAAP)
$0.21 eps (non-GAAP)
$21m loss (GAAP)
-$0.17 eps (GAAP)

Here are the key numbers to look out for.

1. Total Revenues (non-GAAP)
I’ve forecasted 6880 deliveries with an avg sales price of around $95k. The reason I’ve done this is because in Q3 I think Tesla benefited from early European signatures but in Q4 I think the number of signatures and fully loaded cars to Europe might have decreased. $103 asp for Q3 was an abnormally high number IMO. I think $95k is more realistic for this quarter and I’d imagine it to fall a bit in coming quarters as well. So, at $95k asp, I’m projecting total non-GAAP revenue at $680m.

2. Gross margins w/o ZEV income
It will be important for Tesla to deliver strong gross margin numbers, around 25% excluding ZEV income. 24-26% would meet shareholder expectations, anything more would exceed.

3. non-GAAP income and eps
At $680m non-GAAP revenue and a 25.3% gross margin w/o ZEV income, I’m forecasting a non-GAAP income of $34m. I’m estimating a non-GAAP eps (diluted) of $0.21 eps. Tesla needs to report over $700m to exceed shareholder expectations (ie., $100k ASP would bring in $710m revenue, $45m non-GAAP income, and non-GAAP $0.29 eps, diluted.

4. GAAP eps
I’m estimating a GAAP eps of -$0.17 eps, basic. Even if they brought in $710m, GAAP eps would be -$0.08. The only way for TSLA to be GAAP positive this quarter is if they can have strong ZEV credit income along with strong revenue. If they can achieve $28m in ZEV income (with my existing 6880 deliveries at $95k asp), then I’m showing a GAAP profit of $0.03 eps. However, Tesla management has said multiple times to expect near zero ZEV credit in Q4 2013. So, I think it’s wise to heed their advice, and thus I’ve forecasted $3m in ZEV credit. But it’s interesting to note that Tesla can be pushed into GAAP positive territory with strong ZEV income if that occurs in Q1 2014 or later.

Overall, I think Tesla will report a strong quarter, but the bigger question is will it meet shareholder expectations. With a high-growth momentum stock like TSLA, the analyst estimates sometimes are on the low-end. The reason being is because the analysts aren’t the ones usually holding TSLA stock. The people holding TSLA stock are Tesla believers (both institution and retail), traders and momentum investors. The typical shareholder is very bullish on TSLA and after the recent $60 rise in the past month, shareholders will have high expectations going into Q4 earnings.

Since Tesla pre-announced deliveries for Q4, the key part of the earnings report/call will likely be in other areas. Here are they key areas to watch out for besides what I mentioned above (ie., revenue, GM, eps, etc):

1. FY 2014 delivery guidance
Tesla will likely share how many vehicles they’re planning to deliver in 2014. While I think they could guide as high as 37,500, I think they’ll play it conservatively and guide at 35,000 units for 2014. I’m expecting this to meet shareholder expectations.

2. Battery Gigafactory
Elon is expected to share more details on the battery gigafactory. Some people have dilution fears (ie., the gigafactory will need a large stock offering to fund it). I’m optimistic that Elon will have a creative plan to tackle the gigafactory and financing it. Further, I don’t think the full financing amount needs to be done up front. If Tesla needs to raise $1 billion this year for the gigafactory (since it could take 1-2 years to build), then that’s only diluting the stock 1/25 (out of the current $25b valuation). I don’t think shareholders need to fear dilution as Tesla’s valuation is high enough to make dilution less severe. Further, Elon can involve partners and creative funding mechanisms to prevent stock dilution. Regardless, the battery gigafactory is going to be something to focus on in the shareholder letter and earnings conference call. Personally, I think if presented well the gigafactory presents upside to TSLA’s valuation.

3. Production ramp
If TSLA gives FY 2014 guidance then that will answer most of the questions regarding how fast they can ramp in 2014. However, if they don’t offer 2014 guidance for units delivered, then it’s going to be important for TSLA to show that it’s ramping and scaling production (or has immediate plans) in a meaningful way.

4. 2014 Gross Margin guidance
If Tesla offers guidance for 2014 gross margin, this has potential upside to TSLA’s valuation. More specifically, if TSLA guides to reach 30% gross margin by end of 2014 then this will be significant as it shows that Tesla is doing what most people thought they couldn’t do (ie., make high-margins on the Model S).

5. Model X and S demand
I don’t think this will happen in Q4 ER, but at some point this year people will wake up to the fact that demand for Model X is very strong. On TMC we know Model X reservations are already at around 12,000. And I think Model X demand could be at least as high as the Model S. At some point (maybe this year), people will realize that Model S global demand is at 50k+ units/year and Model X global demand is at 50k+ unit/year. If you do the simple math (100k units x $100k asp = $10b x 30% gross margin = $3b GM x .5 (expenses) = $1.5b income. Give it a 25x forward multiple and you’re looking at a $37.5b valuation or close to a $300 stock price). In other words, if Model S remains robust (ie., U.S., Europe, China) and Tesla is able to ramp production significantly, and if Model X reservation pace picks up (test drives are supposedly starting in Autumn this year), then it could become clear to the market that Tesla is headed to 100k Model S/X per year in a couple years, and that could take the stock higher. I wouldn’t be surprised to see TSLA print $300 at some point this year. That being said, if TSLA runs into challenges (ie., production challenges, safety issues, fires, etc), then the stock could get hit as the valuation is based on future earnings potential and a generous multiple.

Overall, I think Tesla is in control. They can release as much good news as they deem fit in Q4 ER. However, my hunch is that they’ll be somewhat conservative and space out the good news/expectations throughout the year.

Sleepyhead and I will be co-hosting a google hangout on the evening of earnings (Feb 19) where we’ll evaluate the earnings report/call and share our thoughts.

ps., I'm open-sourcing the spreadsheet I've created. Feel free to add your own numbers and share your creations.

download excel spreadsheet: View attachment Q4-2013.xlsx
*note: I originally created the spreadsheet on Numbers (Mac) so I'm not sure if it exported the excel file correctly or not, so some functions/formulas might not work.

Q4 2013.png
 
I've got 3 points that are hopefully relevant to the discussion;

1. How much has the Supercharger build-out actually cost so far? Maybe this fits more into Q1 '14, but I recall hearing that they were opening a new one somewhere in the world every few days. At $250k? Each, there is some significantc ost over the course of a quarter.

2. I feel comfortable with the R&D number, but am worried that between X, Gen III and, the Giga Factory, these costs could be climbing higher and faster than we expect. I realize they've kept it relatively consistent to date, but I have a funny feeling that these costs are climbing.

3. Stock-based compensation. Does anyone feel that all the talk of poached Apple employees and overall growth will drive this number higher? I don't know the current head count at Tesla, but attracting the best and brightest, and retaining them are two different things. That has to be especially tough when you're up against Apple and Google that can throw wads of cash at people.

My apologies if these seem like minor items in the grand scheme, but this is all I can really comment on in Dave's model. Everything else is brilliant. Well done!
 
I've got 3 points that are hopefully relevant to the discussion;

1. How much has the Supercharger build-out actually cost so far? Maybe this fits more into Q1 '14, but I recall hearing that they were opening a new one somewhere in the world every few days. At $250k? Each, there is some significantc ost over the course of a quarter.

2. I feel comfortable with the R&D number, but am worried that between X, Gen III and, the Giga Factory, these costs could be climbing higher and faster than we expect. I realize they've kept it relatively consistent to date, but I have a funny feeling that these costs are climbing.

3. Stock-based compensation. Does anyone feel that all the talk of poached Apple employees and overall growth will drive this number higher? I don't know the current head count at Tesla, but attracting the best and brightest, and retaining them are two different things. That has to be especially tough when you're up against Apple and Google that can throw wads of cash at people.

My apologies if these seem like minor items in the grand scheme, but this is all I can really comment on in Dave's model. Everything else is brilliant. Well done!

Supercharger build outs are CAPEX and they get depreciated over a long period of time, so it does not show up as an expense immediately. Maybe 5% of the cost will show up as depreciation expense during the first year post build-out, if we use a 20 year depreciation schedule.
 
Interesting observation on production and feel free to move if not the right place
I was at Fremont SC This past Saturday night at 1030 and the employee parking lot was packed as if it was a Tuesday at 10am

<snippiness alert>

Larry: that's mutually incompatible terminology. If you write in such fashion, it has to read Saturday night at 2230. Writing 1030 means in the AM.

</snippiness alert>

And otherwise....great observation!
 
I've got 3 points that are hopefully relevant to the discussion;

1. How much has the Supercharger build-out actually cost so far? Maybe this fits more into Q1 '14, but I recall hearing that they were opening a new one somewhere in the world every few days. At $250k? Each, there is some significantc ost over the course of a quarter.

2. I feel comfortable with the R&D number, but am worried that between X, Gen III and, the Giga Factory, these costs could be climbing higher and faster than we expect. I realize they've kept it relatively consistent to date, but I have a funny feeling that these costs are climbing.

3. Stock-based compensation. Does anyone feel that all the talk of poached Apple employees and overall growth will drive this number higher? I don't know the current head count at Tesla, but attracting the best and brightest, and retaining them are two different things. That has to be especially tough when you're up against Apple and Google that can throw wads of cash at people.

My apologies if these seem like minor items in the grand scheme, but this is all I can really comment on in Dave's model. Everything else is brilliant. Well done!

Those look like great ?s to me. My thoughts are
1) Agree with sleepy comment- a virtual non-issue; long term depreciation and one of the best stock-value ways to spend it anyway
2) I think they will indeed climb higher (X & E) as Tesla has projected for this year. But those costs are well in hand imo as ModS represented the bulk of risk-of-unknown. Both development and manufacturing ramp costs are well known and will be accurately projected imo. That said, I believe they will add capacity and new manufacturing capabilities that will inflate some of those, a valid case to keep an eye out for that.
The GigaFactory costs will be handled separately as an issue and definitely one that will play into the value proposition for the stock price. Fortunately, all evidence is Elon's financial acumen is more than up to the task. (I'm personally excited about the possible Apple partner leverage; but many other mechanisms are at his disposal)
3) Actually I see this the other way around. Tesla offers those employees a growth, mission, and development path (not to mention economic) that Apple and Google no longer posses for them. Advantage Tesla for the kind of employees they need
 
I've got 3 points that are hopefully relevant to the discussion;

1. How much has the Supercharger build-out actually cost so far? Maybe this fits more into Q1 '14, but I recall hearing that they were opening a new one somewhere in the world every few days. At $250k? Each, there is some significantc ost over the course of a quarter.

2. I feel comfortable with the R&D number, but am worried that between X, Gen III and, the Giga Factory, these costs could be climbing higher and faster than we expect. I realize they've kept it relatively consistent to date, but I have a funny feeling that these costs are climbing.

3. Stock-based compensation. Does anyone feel that all the talk of poached Apple employees and overall growth will drive this number higher? I don't know the current head count at Tesla, but attracting the best and brightest, and retaining them are two different things. That has to be especially tough when you're up against Apple and Google that can throw wads of cash at people.

My apologies if these seem like minor items in the grand scheme, but this is all I can really comment on in Dave's model. Everything else is brilliant. Well done!

Sleepy's already answered the question about superchargers as a capex expense. I agree with him that it could be depreciated over a long period like 20 years. So the actual recorded expense is not that large.

Same thing goes with R&D. R&D expenses will grow but Model X factory tooling and other factory expenses will likely be capex and depreciated over time, so only a small portion of that (ie., 10% if depreciated over 10 years, or 5% over 20 years) show up as expenses. The gigafactory is another story since it's a huge expense and we'll see how Tesla proposes to fund it.

Regarding stock-based compensation, I'm not too concerned about this. Tesla will spend what it needs with this and I think it'll be manageable.
 
Here's my newly revised estimates based off of $720m instead of $680m in revenue. After conversing with vgrinshpun in the Q4 thread, I realize my revenue figures are probably too low. 20% over Q3 revenue's of $602m would be about $720m. The actual "20% higher revenue than guidance" announcement by Tesla is a bit cryptic because they never guided for total revenue (just 6000 cars delivered and relatively flat ASPs), but we aren't clear what powertrain, ZEV, GHG/Cafe, and development services income will be. So the revenue number is a bit arbitrary. Since I can't find a clear Q4 total revenue guidance number, I'm using Q3 revenue as a sort of "guidance" and adding 20% to that number.

View attachment 43636
 
I will be intrested to see if Austin's ZEV theory is correct, but I like the more conservative approach you've taken. Fascinating how a 5% difference in ASP is a ~$35,000,000 swing. Getting that number absolutely correct seems to be a somewhat elusive beast. As you pointed out earlier, "relatively flat" is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Dave T - i like your analysis. Great work and thanks for sharing.

I am curious, why do you calculate ASP on Total Revenues vs. Automotive Revenues?

I've been calculating ASP by dividing Vehicle Sales by # vehicles delivered. Vehicle sales not including ZEV, powertrain or GHG/Cafe. But somebody mentioned that GHG/Cafe should be included. If anyone knows, please let me know.
 
I've been calculating ASP by dividing Vehicle Sales by # vehicles delivered. Vehicle sales not including ZEV, powertrain or GHG/Cafe. But somebody mentioned that GHG/Cafe should be included. If anyone knows, please let me know.

I always included them in my modeling spreadsheets, because Tesla includes them in their 25.2% GM calculation.

They said a while back that they have long term contracts for these GHG/CAFE credits so they are more predictable and sustainable.
 
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