Automatic Emergency Braking Failure, the Movie

[Octo]

I guess we’ll know for sure if Tesla is a leader or not once they deploy their next gen vision HW and SW. I expect it to detect, visualize and warn about objects in the blind spot with reliability that’s better than traditional blind spot warning systems.

Right now it’s beta level awful. Kinda works but way too poor to be actually useful.

If they can’t even do that with HW3 then what’s the point of their solution to autonomy?

 

[raptor5244]

I guess we’ll know for sure if Tesla is a leader or not once they deploy their next gen vision HW and SW. I expect it to detect, visualize and warn about objects in the blind spot with reliability that’s better than traditional blind spot warning systems.

Right now it’s beta level awful. Kinda works but way too poor to be actually useful.

If they can’t even do that with HW3 then what’s the point of their solution to autonomy?

The Tesla Model 3 is the best car I have ever owned. My favorite aspect of the car is the driving dynamics. It truly makes most if not all ICE based vehicles feel like ancient history. The power-train is the main event when it comes to owning a Tesla at this point.

However, to your point, as it relates to AP/FSD Consumer Reports, regardless of what anyone thinks of them, said it well.

“The system’s role should be to help the driver, but the way this technology is deployed, it’s the other way around,” says Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ senior director of auto testing. “It’s incredibly nearsighted. It doesn’t appear to react to brake lights or turn signals, it can’t anticipate what other drivers will do, and as a result, you constantly have to be one step ahead of it.”

“Tesla is showing what not to do on the path toward self-driving cars: release increasingly automated driving systems that aren’t vetted properly,” he says. “Before selling these systems, automakers should be required to give the public validated evidence of that system’s safety—backed by rigorous simulations, track testing, and the use of safety drivers in real-world conditions.”

“This isn’t a convenience at all,” says CR’s Fisher. “Monitoring the system is much harder than just changing lanes yourself. Using the system is like monitoring a kid behind the wheel for the very first time. As any parent knows, it’s far more convenient and less stressful to simply drive yourself.”

Then Motortrend did a follow up to the Consumer Reports article.

First Test: Tesla's Navigate on Autopilot - MotorTrend

"So is Consumer Reports right, and is Alan being too forgiving of this rather erratic software programming?

It depends on your tolerance for a new type of driving. Right now, all these systems require you to be a vigilant monitor. Even Cadillac's ACC and LC Super Cruise, which I'm a big fan of, needs my periodic intervention. Does that mean it's dangerous? No. But they ask us to understand that what we classically think of as "driving" is transforming into a driver-and-semi-automated collaboration. Unfortunately, some Tesla buyers and shoppers mistakenly believe Autopilot means they can drive hands-free. That is an incorrect assumption."

 

[bwilson4web]

How would you know? It appears you are usually asleep at the wheel. Literally.

Our Model 3 has not crashed, my wife and I are uninjured and alive . . . proof enough for us that it works and is safer with AutoPilot than without.

Bob Wilson

 

[Daniel in SD]

Our Model 3 has not crashed, my wife and I are uninjured and alive . . . proof enough for us that it works and is safer with AutoPilot than without.

Bob Wilson

What was your crash rate before Autopilot?

 

[AdamVIP]

Dont get Bob started.

I have regular autopilot and while its pretty good it still gets too far to the edges in turns for my liking. Plus Im paranoid its going to hit a bucket or something that might be next to a barrier close to the road. I prefer to use the regular speed adaptive cruise as I can do the steering input smoother and be able to react to in road debris better. Mine seems to react well to other cars coming into the lane. I keep my setting at 7 seconds gap.

 

[bwilson4web]

What was your crash rate before Autopilot?

1966 - age 16
1972 - age 22

I have regular autopilot and while its pretty good it still gets too far to the edges in turns for my liking. Plus Im paranoid its going to hit a bucket or something that might be next to a barrier close to the road. I prefer to use the regular speed adaptive cruise as I can do the steering input smoother and be able to react to in road debris better. Mine seems to react well to other cars coming into the lane. I keep my setting at 7 seconds gap.

The first version I had back in March was pretty bad on right curves by riding on the center lane line. Left curves were no problem. More recent versions improved lane following and handle sharper curves, Still, in an abundance of caution with sharper city curves, I reduce the speed 5-10 mph. The last minute steering adjustments takes getting used to.

Bob Wilson

 

[Daniel in SD]

1966 - age 16
1972 - age 22

Doesn't seem like enough data to say that your crash rate has improved with Autopilot. Average crash rate in US is somewhere between one per 150k-500k miles (depending how you count). That doesn't take into account severity of crashes either.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The last minute steering adjustments takes getting used to.

That's a very charitable description.

As my wife commented last night after we got off the freeway after a brief drive from the airport on AP, "I don't like the way the car is driving right now, I feel like it used to be better; there is lots of jerking." My response: "Yes, it's definitely not nearly as good at driving smoothly as I am - my metric is to not do anything that would wake a sleeping passenger."

Then this thread crossed my mind - maybe Autopilot is intentionally jerky so as to wake the sleeping driver.

 

[Daniel in SD]

That's a very charitable description.

As my wife commented last night after we got off the freeway after a brief drive from the airport on AP, "I don't like the way the car is driving right now, I feel like it used to be better; there is lots of jerking." My response: "Yes, it's definitely not nearly as good at driving smoothly as I am - my metric is to not do anything that would wake a sleeping passenger."

Then this thread crossed my mind - maybe Autopilot is intentionally jerky so as to wake the sleeping driver.

I find that the autopilot is quite smooth when following a smooth driver. Unfortunately a surprisingly large number of drivers use both the accelerator and the brake to maintain constant speed and Autopilot is perfectly happy to mimic them. And then there's the problem of "cut in detection" which seems to not detect vehicles until they are fully in your lane and then initiates violent braking.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Unfortunately a surprisingly large number of drivers use both the accelerator and the brake to maintain constant speed and Autopilot is perfectly happy to mimic them.

Ensuring minimal latency is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[Wingsy]

Alan, please send a copy of this handbook to the Tesla software team. They desperately need it.