AutoPilot dangerously veering back into overtaking lane midway through moving back into middle lane

[DarkWing]

Has anyone else suffered this? It is a real issue for me that I am trying to convince Tesla service about (next appointment mid-August) and any additional experiences would be very welcome. I am hoping I have a car-specific problem they can solve (camera alignment or something) rather than a generic AP issue, but if it is an AP issue I’d rather they were aware and able to address it…


The specific issue on AP occurs when overtaking in the outside lane and then initiating a return with the indicator to the middle lane when clear. If there is a van or truck in the inside lane then it is common (and repeatable) for the car to begin the manoeuvre into the middle lane then suddenly ‘see’ the truck/van and think it is partly in the middle lane causing the alarms to go off and a sudden veering back into the outside lane. If this happens when I am trying to clear the outside lane for a faster car coming up behind me this is clearly a scary moment.


It has got so bad now that I am extremely careful when I initiate the return to middle lane to avoid any chance of it happening and I have lost confidence in AP so will not use it when I have passengers. What I am surprised about is that I cannot find anything like this in the forums, if it was a generic issue then I’m sure someone else would have posted it and it would make the auto lane changing the in USA particularly painful I’m sure.


I do notice that when in the outside lane the visualisations never show anything in the inside lane. Maybe this is the issue, but there are only so many hours of YouTube Tesla driving I can take to find out if this is common. So, a quick follow up question is: does your car show visualisations for vehicles 2 lanes over?

 

[SlimJim]

My AP doesn't do lane changes

 

[totoro722]

My AP FSD does not show visualizations two lanes over, nevertheless one can see demonstrations in this forum showing that AP sees much more than shows on the visualization in the car. I have many times had my car react to events happening more than one lane away, sometimes quite a bit more than one lane away.

 

[CurtisVL]

What you described is a bug in the EU firmware it seems! It has been around for a couple of months.

'Tesla Driver' did a video on YouTube talking about it believe, and I've experienced it myself too.

As you noted, it can't move back into the middle lane if a truck is in the outside lane, briefly it sees it as being in the middle lane and it freaks out. To avoid this, I time it so it'll start moving over (After the 3 indicator blinks) just as I pass the truck, in this case it moves back in normally.

Really strange issue, really hope they fix it soon!

 

[JeremyOO07JDG]

I get the same thing DarkWing, it’s mostly when there is a truck in lane one and my planned manoeuvre takes me in close to middle or rear of that vehicle. It’s a real issue and sadly I need to wait a second or two longer before I indicate or if something fast is coming up quickly I knock off AP. Not good!

 

[KenC]

Definitely try to get video documentation.

 

[DarkWing]

What you described is a bug in the EU firmware it seems! It has been around for a couple of months.

'Tesla Driver' did a video on YouTube talking about it believe, and I've experienced it myself too.

As you noted, it can't move back into the middle lane if a truck is in the outside lane, briefly it sees it as being in the middle lane and it freaks out. To avoid this, I time it so it'll start moving over (After the 3 indicator blinks) just as I pass the truck, in this case it moves back in normally.

Really strange issue, really hope they fix it soon!

Thanks for the feedback and YouTube tip CurtisVL, I found something by Tesla Driver from March that shows something similar, I would be less worried by it refusing to return to the lane (as I saw in his video) than this nasty; start the process then abort. Still, all good evidence...

 

[DarkWing]

I get the same thing DarkWing, it’s mostly when there is a truck in lane one and my planned manoeuvre takes me in close to middle or rear of that vehicle. It’s a real issue and sadly I need to wait a second or two longer before I indicate or if something fast is coming up quickly I knock off AP. Not good!

Thanks for the confirmation JeremyOO07JDG, like you, I find myself waiting longer or second guessing when to start the process - how that could work for auto lane changing (should that ever arrive here...) is a question I shall be asking

 

[DarkWing]

My AP FSD does not show visualizations two lanes over, nevertheless one can see demonstrations in this forum showing that AP sees much more than shows on the visualization in the car. I have many times had my car react to events happening more than one lane away, sometimes quite a bit more than one lane away.

Thanks totoro722, appreciate the confirmation on the 2 lane element, I also recognise it's a developing (and Beta) system and I am happy to be on that (often exciting) journey and accept it will get better over time

 

[Vipercat]

@DarkWing, this indeed seems to be a bug or permanent glitch in the system. Not specific to your car only. I experience the same behavior and like @JeremyOO07JDG described I too try to plan my return to the middle lane in such a way that I just passed the truck in the right lane. Otherwise the car indeed swirls back to the left lane. Sometimes I forget and instantly regret I did. When I look on my driver console screen (Model S) I can clearly see a red truck turn up and move from right to left and back to right again. This issue wasn’t there last year on (I believe) v9 of the software. I truly hope that Tesla is able to get this resolved, because it’s dangerous and annoying.

 

[CurtisVL]

@DarkWing, this indeed seems to be a bug or permanent glitch in the system. Not specific to your car only. I experience the same behavior and like @JeremyOO07JDG described I too try to plan my return to the middle lane in such a way that I just passed the truck in the right lane. Otherwise the car indeed swirls back to the left lane. Sometimes I forget and instantly regret I did. When I look on my driver console screen (Model S) I can clearly see a red truck turn up and move from right to left and back to right again. This issue wasn’t there last year on (I believe) v9 of the software. I truly hope that Tesla is able to get this resolved, because it’s dangerous and annoying.

I'm honestly surprised it's lasted this long!

Maybe because we all got used to it and avoid it no one is putting in bug reports for it anymore.

 

[DarkWing]

@DarkWing, this indeed seems to be a bug or permanent glitch in the system. Not specific to your car only. I experience the same behavior and like @JeremyOO07JDG described I too try to plan my return to the middle lane in such a way that I just passed the truck in the right lane. Otherwise the car indeed swirls back to the left lane. Sometimes I forget and instantly regret I did. When I look on my driver console screen (Model S) I can clearly see a red truck turn up and move from right to left and back to right again. This issue wasn’t there last year on (I believe) v9 of the software. I truly hope that Tesla is able to get this resolved, because it’s dangerous and annoying.

Thanks Vipercat, I've had my Model 3 for almost a year now and I know I didn't experience this in the first few months and I put a lot of miles on it early on (I suspect that was version 9 too) so it is good (though also sad) to hear others have seen this same regression issue. I'll be pointing the service team at this growing body of evidence that there is an issue that is real and needs sorting...

 

[Arpe]

I am pretty sure this is a EU only problem. In Europe we have so many rules for "autonomous vehicles" that make them get more dangerous than safe. In EU a lane chance most not take more than 5 second (all included), if anything happens during the 5 second your vehicle are forced (by the EU) to get back into the lane which it came from. Also it is not allowed to do the actual lane change faster than 2 second i think it was. So if the car spend 2 seconds waiting for a vehicle to be able to take the lane change the 5 seconds will soon be gone and as your vehicle starts to change lane the 5 seconds is up and it is forced back into the first lane again.

I really don't know why the EU finds this safer, they should really try driving these cars to see how dangerous it is when stupid threshold laws are in place. I also find myself always being ready to take over in case the vehicle reaches any of the EU limits. Back in the days the vehicles were also not allowed to speed up/down during the lane chance, making the 5 second rule even more difficult to match!

So EU only problem, the only thing we can do about it is making our EU politicians hearing about their stupid laws.

My take on the hole problem is, I believe that EU Tesla AP/FSD will be shitty until VW, BMW, AUDI and Mercedes have comparable systems to Tesla. If Tesla was allowed to have the full AP/FSD systems we can see from USA then it would be all over for the old German brands. EU is trying with everything it can to save European jobs.

I know Elon Musk have several times been talking about how he and Tesla is negotiating with the EU politicians and law makers. It can only get better from this point. Stay strong and safe out there

 

[DarkWing]

Update following my service visit yesterday, after reviewing all the various dash cam videos, time stamped logs and other bits the technician had a thorough physical review of the car and found one of the ultrasonics very slightly unseated ("couple of mm"). Also had a long conversation about Beta programs and ever evolving capability (which I am 100% on board with) and that the issue may just be one of those things. So, with some disappointment I set off home and had a couple of attempts to try and recreate it, both of which passed with flying colours. I then took it out for a longer test drive in the evening, various light conditions, even some rain and falling dusk and in about 15-20 attempts to make it happen again I simply couldn't where as, even on the way down to the service centre I had managed to get it to trigger 3 times, including one point when going form the middle lane to an empty left lane (that was a new one).

So, at the moment, after about 100 miles and some significant attempts to recreate it I am cautiously optimistic that the underlying issue has been found and it was a car specific problem. I have a long trip coming up (about 1000 miles in 5 days) so will be tested more thoroughly then...

One moral of the story for me is not to give up on it, I have had this dialog on and off since January with Tesla and, had I not dug my heels in, it may have effected the car forever.

Here's hoping for a happy ending after all