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Buying a Crashed Model X
- Thread starter EVOntario
- Start date
And, from all I've read here about Tesla owners' experiences in getting repairs done in a timely and knowledgeable fashion by either a Tesla Service Center or an authorized body shop, clean-titled Tesla owners' endless nightmare is different how?
I'm not entirely convinced of Tesla's ability to unilaterally void a warranty that runs with ownership of the car (note, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but we can do pretty much anything we put our minds to, including read). In fact, if you look at that HV Inspection form, Tesla forces an owner to waive your rights to the warranty to get that inspection -- that says that the OWNER is agreeing to the warranty cancellation because Tesla can't cancel it unilaterally for no deliberate acts by the owner to cause damage to the vehicle. Yes, if you crack open an onboard charger, the warranty is voided on the charger (not the entire car), but there's a STICKER on there that you have to physically damage which is evidence of your agreement that the warranty will be void if you CHOOSE to breach it.
In other words, I think this salvage title nonsense is all one, big, lawyers' bluff and if it's fact that Tesla cannot staff its Service Centers with competent technicians that can determine if a car is safe to work on EACH TIME IT COMES IN, that is not the customer's problem (like Tesla's beancounters and lawyers would like it to be).
As an example - you're in your brand new P100S Ludicrous MS and a truck ahead of you drops a muffler (it happens). You, nor the computer, can avoid running it over with the rear wheel and in the ensuing dynamics, the metal pieces cut the power cable's insulation going to the rear drive unit (it's not armored like it SHOULD be if it was designed properly). 400V is sitting there, lethal, can take out a tech in a heartbeat (literally), yet you have a clear title to the car sitting in the glovebox. This scenario IS very possible.
In another example, a 60%-of-actual-cash-value damaged Tesla that an insurance company decides to have repaired is not a salvage car, retains a clear title despite extensive repairs being needed, yet has been hit in a crash to where high voltage cable insulation has been cut by a torn aluminum body component (that metal is SHARP) in a collision and is now a definite hazard and threat to Service Center personnel and maybe (not in this case) to the Supercharger.
Yet, in the instance where a car that's been written off at 60%-of-actual-cash-value (ACV) by an insurance company, written off because of the way TESLA designed the passenger rear quarter panel on a MX that makes repairs crazy expensive, the title has to be branded salvage by state law, yet somehow this car gets it warranty unilaterally voided by Tesla because the subwoofer housing has a crack in it (it's the only electrical component in there and it's not HV)? The warranty gets blindly and unilaterally voided by Tesla because of the cost to repair, which is Tesla's defect, not because the car is a safety hazard (note in passing: cars that cannot be restored to being safe on the road are titled as "junk", not "salvage").
My position in all this, and based on reading that bs HV Inspection legal document that's been posted in this thread (thanks for posting that one), is that an owner of a salvage titled vehicle needs to sign to get the "HV Inspection" and that Tesla cannot unilaterally void a warranty where the owner did not cause the problem (equity principle of "unclean hands"...I guess pun intended) and the document itself is pretty much is an admission of that because they added a clause where the owner gives up warranty rights.
On top of all that, the nature of the beast is it has high voltage in it and Service Center personnel MUST ensure that EVERY vehicle that comes in is not compromised on the high voltage side or there's going to be a huge lawsuit when a tech gets electrocuted while working on a recently delivered car (factory defect or quality control problems can pose a shock hazard as well) that never crashed.
I also didn't mention that the FIRST thing you do when working on the HV portion of an EV is to disable the contactors. The car also has comprehensive diagnostics to where IT KNOWS the AC or a heat exchanger is not working and it will REFUSE charging, even on a low current 110V plug (my MS did this). Again, NONE of this policy is founded in engineering or fact that I can see....I think it's a ruse to get out of warranty coverage and taht it accomplishes nothing but damaging the valuation of the entire fleet of Tesla's that's out here in the wild.
I think this salvage title policy nonsense is some beancounter at Tesla trying to cut costs by weaseling out of a warranty that creates resale value of the car, irrespective of the type of title being held by the owner of the car. With all the problems they've had with powertrains in the early days of MS (and even to this day with the clunks many people report when the suspension is raised), they'd like nothing more than to not have to replace drive units in the crashed (or merely stolen) cars sitting at salvage auction -- 63 pre-2015 Model S are currently at one auctioneer alone. About a million bucks in drive units not deployed under Elon's million mile guarantee and a million bucks in drive units to SELL just in this snapshot in time.
Now, some of you reading this will think, meh, salvage cars...I'm never getting one like these peasants are and none of this affects me. But it does. You see, with canceled warranties and non-marketability of rebuilt cars, the value of the cars at salvage auctions drop like a rock. That totaled $85,000 MX or $50,000 MS can fetch between a third to a half of ACV -- that means YOUR insurance company reduced its out of pocket on a totaled vehicle by 30%-50%. Collapse that recovery to 10% and guess whose insurance premiums go up? Hint: starts with "every" and ends with "body's".
This is what Tesla doesn't get because they haven't grown up yet. A healthy "secondary" market in salvage and junk cars is actually essential to keeping insurance rates down (Elon's answer to this is to become an insurance agent... when he'll not be moonlighting as a cab company owner) AND it's key to a body shop getting your car back in a week vs waiting three or four months for parts from Tesla because, squeezed as they are for capacity and revenue, that $800 quarter panel can be allocated to fix your car, or it can go on a car they'll sell for $90,000. Tough decision, lol. Now you know why you get screwed for repair parts and why they can't be ordered easily (don't get me started on "restricted" parts).
I know Tesla folks monitor this forum, which is great. But I'm fully equipped to call them on their bullshit -- I have an MX I just got with 1500 miles on it. It was in a crash that took out the rear suspension and quarter panel. NOTHING to do with high voltage and inspecting the charger inside that quarter is a ten second look, hardly warranting the $5,000 or whatever fee they are charging when their own shop safety practices should COMPLETELY screen HV hazards for every vehicle that comes in, even if it's just to top off the coolant.
And, as far as Tesla's "authorized" repair methods to replace the panels? Pop-rivets. Really? Pop-rivets? I'm spotwelding, and aircraft riveting my "salvage titled" car so it's a RESTORED (title will say "rebuilt") luxury car vs a bandaid-repaired beercan with a clean title.
If Tesla's going to survive these teenager years they're in, they need to make some big changes. And a big part of that is not F-ing over their customers and not doing ANYTHING that will devalue their cars, no matter what title is in the glovebox. Above all, they need to put in shop practices and procedures that ensure none of their techs get electrocuted/injured and, in doing so, the brand on the title becomes irrelevant. They also need to end the BS on the supercharging as well - the cars refuse to charge if even the slightest fault presents itself in the car's onboard systems and a Supercharger is nothing more than a stack of the chargers in my quarter panel. If the car can't drink from a firehose on the cooling side, it backs off the charge rate by request. The ONLY way a Supercharger can be endangered that I can see is if non-Tesla hardware is used to fake out the Supercharger on a homebrew EV, but if that's the case, the type of title is still irrelevant.
There are dozens, if not hundreds of lawyers and a few engineers on this forum as Tesla owners. I'm hoping to provoke a discussion here where the outcome is that everybody wins and nobody is legitimately endangered.
At least in the United States, those stickers are not only not binding, but actually per se illegal to install.
Voiding a warranty in exchange for a repair inspection is also almost certainly illegal, but until somebody sues Tesla about it, that's kind of moot. It is, in fact, illegal to void a warranty for any reason other than to the minimum extent required for damage caused by abuse (e.g. the accident itself) or improperly performed repairs (i.e. if you open up the charger and damage it, they can refuse to give warranty service on that part).
If the inspection finds nothing wrong with the repair work, then it is almost certainly highly illegal for Tesla to void the warranty. They can, of course, refuse to warrant any failures caused by mistakes made during that repair, but only if they can show reasonable cause to believe that the failure was caused by a botched repair or other damage arising out of the accident.
In short, I'd lay strong odds that this ends up in court eventually, because what Tesla is doing is almost certainly not legal.
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dennisvab
Member
I’m sure the auction for this one has passed. But no one has mentioned that this one is doctored up. I am 100% certain that this was being sold by someone other than insurance company.
