BYND Beyond Meat out of main

[Swampgator]

I don't really know much about them and don't worry about it unless the doctor says I should.

Have you read these?
Could A Vegan Diet Help Prevent Cancer?

Not that particular blog no. But the actual study the activist (in her profile) blogger references...........Yes. It is based on Seventh day Adventists studied in the blue zone. The participants answered food survey questionnaires trying to recall what they have eaten in the past. Are you good at that? At the core, it is an epidemiological study. As such, it can NOT show causation. But the authors write as they they have (a fatal conceit)
And what did it suggest as an association? A small increase in the RELATIVE risk for cancer in non vegans. Why not look at the absolute risk? They don't even mention it, why not? It's because the difference in absolute risk is so small as to be statistical noise. The authors even write this:

The potential limitations of our study include unavoidable inaccuracies in the assessment of food consumption. It is likely that participants may have overestimated some foods generally considered beneficial due to social desirability. However, this type of misclassification should be nondifferential, usually biasing the results toward the null. Furthermore, our published data (14) comparing questionnaire with six 24-hour dietary recall data suggest good validity for the foods used to determine the vegetarian categories.


Huh? I can't even make sense of those last two sentences. This study is garbage IMO. But even if you choose to take stock, the chance of it's findings being correct is less than 20% based on meta-analysis of epi studies from the past. Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

 

[JRP3]

But the actual study...

There were a number of references in the article, not the single study you focus on.

 

[JRP3]

But even if you choose to take stock, the chance of it's findings being correct is less than 20% based on meta-analysis of epi studies from the past. Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

You keep referencing this as if it's definitive, which it's not.

But the claims that the model employed in this paper constitutes a “proof” that most published medical research claims are false, and that research in “hot” areas is most likely to be false, are unfounded.

Why Most Published Research Findings Are False: Problems in the Analysis

The paper contains no real data, it is purely based on conjecture and simulation.

A summary of the evidence that most published research is false · Simply Statistics

 

[tander]

Not that particular blog no. But the actual study the activist (in her profile) blogger references...........Yes. It is based on Seventh day Adventists studied in the blue zone. The participants answered food survey questionnaires trying to recall what they have eaten in the past. Are you good at that? At the core, it is an epidemiological study. As such, it can NOT show causation. But the authors write as they they have (a fatal conceit)
And what did it suggest as an association? A small increase in the RELATIVE risk for cancer in non vegans. Why not look at the absolute risk? They don't even mention it, why not? It's because the difference in absolute risk is so small as to be statistical noise. The authors even write this:

The potential limitations of our study include unavoidable inaccuracies in the assessment of food consumption. It is likely that participants may have overestimated some foods generally considered beneficial due to social desirability. However, this type of misclassification should be nondifferential, usually biasing the results toward the null. Furthermore, our published data (14) comparing questionnaire with six 24-hour dietary recall data suggest good validity for the foods used to determine the vegetarian categories.


Huh? I can't even make sense of those last two sentences. This study is garbage IMO. But even if you choose to take stock, the chance of it's findings being correct is less than 20% based on meta-analysis of epi studies from the past. Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

I agree a lot of research findings seem questionable. But if you believe they are all false, why list those studies supporting meat? What do you think about that guy doing blood tests after eating plant based? Not an expert on blood tests or much of anything actually, but they seemed pretty eye-opening. It would be interesting to put a study together like that comparing various diets/blood results and let the numbers do the talking. Might be interesting to do that with people eating various burger patties too.

Back to the OP which I just somehow managed to read (wow this thread has gone down the rabbit hole), hopefully BYND does well, I'd try it, I imagine it will be volatile for a while. Don't think there is anything wrong with shorting it or tsla as long as people aren't obscuring the truth in the process. Also hope people don't assume that switching to BYND burgers makes it healthy, kind of reminds me of switching from marlboros to menthol cigarettes, or cigarettes to vaping.

 

[EVNow]

Have you read these?
Could A Vegan Diet Help Prevent Cancer?

This doesn't make much sense. Afterall carcinogens can get in various ways - pesticides, for eg.

Only direct link of meat to cancer I know of is a particular way to cure the meat that uses nitrogen. If you are not using that meat, no support for any kind of link to cancer that I know about.

OTOH, there are a lot of Indians who do not eat but get cancer. Since that is a population as big as US population, much better to use that fact than a small group like 7th day. Meat eating is definitely a risk factor for colon cancer - since it almost never happens with non-meat eaters. Anyway, pick your paper !

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,48&q=cancer+meat+eating&oq=cancer+meat

 

[EVNow]

If your HDL is higher than your TG you are doing great. Most likely not a regular sugar eater either.

I think I wrote earlier - I don't eat any grains or starches. Ofcourse no sugars either. Otherwise with diabetes I won't have an A1C of 5 (and no medication).

And trust me, any paper you have read on nutrition, lipid profiles, CVD, or cancer......I have read long ago. I'm pretty old and this is kinda my job.

Not possible. Lots of papers are new

BTW, you should check out Keto science nerds, unite! . Lots of new science and discussion about this stuff.

 

[Merrill]

Here is my take on this issue, my motto is everything in moderation, having said that at my age if you told me to stop eating something that I like and that if I did that I would live 5 years longer I would say I want to enjoy what is left and would probably not stop eating it if I like it!

 

[JRP3]

Here is my take on this issue, my motto is everything in moderation, having said that at my age if you told me to stop eating something that I like and that if I did that I would live 5 years longer I would say I want to enjoy what is left and would probably not stop eating it if I like it!

Interestingly there were things I thought I would miss but really don't. What I've found is there are many more amazing foods out there than what I once would have called my favorites.

 

[Sparky]

The reason I am against Beyond meat, and other fake meat companies, is that these are being pushed by a global agenda of driving down meat consumption. Current push is from EAT Lancet. The entire thing though is a carefully orchestrated campaign backed by the agricultural industry wearing a Tech mask.
I love new ideas. I drive a Tesla after all. And since I do NOT believe in CAGW my reasons for buying the car have everything to do with the tech and the driving experience.
Beyond Meat just rings a little too close to Solyent Green for my tastes.

I own some BYND. Bought late, roughly $90. I tried the burger at Carl's and thought, "this is fine." Certainly not worse than the beef version and aspects of it were better (no liver flavor). I would buy it again.
I do believe in entropy, gravity, Maxwell-Faraday equation, and AGW (why add the "C"?, redundant).
I also believe we (all of us) are better off with less factory beef production and Beyond and Impossible and copycats all seem like they might bend the curve down a bit. So, that's why I vote with my wallet. Just like buying TSLA & Tesla(s).
Less factory beef production reduces CH4. More EVs reduce oil consumption which also leads to less CH4.
Reducing CH4 emissions is the best chance we have of some quick impact on AGW since it's not as long lasting as CO2. I like easy decisions.

 

[tander]

This doesn't make much sense. Afterall carcinogens can get in various ways - pesticides, for eg.

Only direct link of meat to cancer I know of is a particular way to cure the meat that uses nitrogen. If you are not using that meat, no support for any kind of link to cancer that I know about.

OTOH, there are a lot of Indians who do not eat but get cancer. Since that is a population as big as US population, much better to use that fact than a small group like 7th day. Meat eating is definitely a risk factor for colon cancer - since it almost never happens with non-meat eaters. Anyway, pick your paper !

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,48&q=cancer+meat+eating&oq=cancer+meat

As I understand it, Indians have lower cancer rates overall, but higher death rates from it because they they catch it much later and don't have the same treatments as the US.

Why are Cancer Rates so Low in India? | NutritionFacts.org

Here is my take on this issue, my motto is everything in moderation, having said that at my age if you told me to stop eating something that I like and that if I did that I would live 5 years longer I would say I want to enjoy what is left and would probably not stop eating it if I like it!

That's what my Grandpa's doctors tell him, at his age they figure he's gotten this far doing what he does so they tell him to do as he pleases, which is hard to argue with.

 

[renim]

In as far, as India has the largest cattle population in the world (followed by Brazil then China), I would not consider India to be an ideal example plant only, but rather of the difference between vegetarian VS vegan, they consume a lot of dairy in India, otherwise B12 deficiency would've caused neuro deformities each and every generation.

The developed world's current greatest meat eaters, are also the world's longest living people. Hong Kong. Currently about 1 in 7 Hong Kong are protesting against plans to allow extradition to China. Can you imagine 1 in 7 Americans taking to the streets to protest Trump, that would be 46 million people.

 

[Swampgator]

I own some BYND. Bought late, roughly $90. I tried the burger at Carl's and thought, "this is fine." Certainly not worse than the beef version and aspects of it were better (no liver flavor). I would buy it again.
I do believe in entropy, gravity, Maxwell-Faraday equation, and AGW (why add the "C"?, redundant).
I also believe we (all of us) are better off with less factory beef production and Beyond and Impossible and copycats all seem like they might bend the curve down a bit. So, that's why I vote with my wallet. Just like buying TSLA & Tesla(s).
Less factory beef production reduces CH4. More EVs reduce oil consumption which also leads to less CH4.
Reducing CH4 emissions is the best chance we have of some quick impact on AGW since it's not as long lasting as CO2. I like easy decisions.

The C is added for a very specific reason. You know what it is.

 

[JRP3]

The developed world's current greatest meat eaters, are also the world's longest living people.

Wealth and good health care can work wonders.

 

[JRP3]

Meat consumption per capita

Healthiest countries

 

[EVNow]

but rather of the difference between vegetarian VS vegan

There is no traditional society that is vegan. That should say something.

Of course that doesn't mean one can't be vegan and healthy today with supplements.

 

[Swampgator]

Meat consumption per capita

Healthiest countries

So, no correlation then?

 

[JRP3]

So, no correlation then?

That's certainly one way to (not) look at the data.

 

[Deeppurple]

I realize the debate over meat will be with us for decades, here are a few points and how I decided on this subject:
1. Meats and fish if were produced sustainably without the additives and hormones would probably be half as bad for us, but feeding farm salmon with corn is going to produce side-effects.
2. There is overwhelming evidence that switching to more veggies especially organic, will be more beneficial and you can test this one on yourself, by simply eating fresh veggies for a day and noticing less digestive and other issues. There is a Hippocrates Health institute Welcome - Hippocrates Health Institute in West Palm Beach, FL that has been specializing in curing terminal diseases like cancer and diabetes by majorly adjusting people's diets and seeing results in weeks.
3. Unfortunately, a lot of folks will give up meat and mistakenly replace it with highly processed "organic" processed chips and stuff--that's just poor substitutes. Mushrooms, beans, and beyond meat or similar burgers once in a while works for us and we stopped craving meat even after months going almost vegan.

 

[commasign]

Mushrooms, beans, and beyond meat or similar burgers once in a while works for us and we stopped craving meat even after months going almost vegan.

This sums it up. I tried going vegan a couple years ago and didn’t last a week. No plans to try going vegan again, but if Beyond and Impossible burger had been around back then I probably would have succeeded. It’s not a 100% perfect imitation and it may not even be “healthy”, but it’s tasty and safe enough for occasional use to satisfy the craving for meat for those who for whatever reason want to eat less meat.

 

[tander]

... you can test this one on yourself, by simply eating fresh veggies for a day and noticing less digestive and other issues...

+1 for your #2, Just give it a try and see how it works. We went to Paris one time, ate a lot of pastries, cheese, ham, wine, only walking for exercise. It was great for a couple days but by day 3-4 I swear my blood vessels started to actually feel gunked up. When my Grandparents finish a big typical "American" dinner of meat and potatoes they usually look uncomfortable and get out of breath easily (and the real fun comes later). If they eat something that is more plant based/whole food they seem to walk better and even the next morning they seem better rested and spry. It's a small sample size but the pattern is pretty reliable.