BYND Beyond Meat out of main

[Swampgator]

That is a ridiculous assertion.
Insulin resistance leads to type 2 diabetes. Insulin resistance occurs from high, sustained insulin levels. This is how resistance works. High insulin levels are much more likely to occur from high carbohydrate intake. Although protein raises insulin levels as well, the AUC is much smaller in response to protein as in response to carbohydrate intake.

You will never see a type 2 diabetic human carnivore.

"Concerning the public health relevance at the global level, our evidence indicates that GI and GL
are substantial food markers predicting the development of T2D worldwide, for persons of
European ancestry and of East Asian ancestry."

From this just released study: Dietary Glycemic Index and Load and the Risk of Type 2 Diabetes: A Systematic Review and Updated Meta-Analyses of Prospective Cohort Studies

It seems carb intake predicts T2D development. In direct opposition to your position that it does not.

This may also interest EVNOW

 

[tander]

BTW, I watched the videos. Absolute confirmation bias created bullsugar.

So somehow the diet that humans existed and thrived upon for the past 200,000 years is somehow killing us and needs to be replaced by Beyond Meat fake food? That is your core argument correct? I'll bet my 14 year old daughter could whip that vegan weakling.

Those videos appear to be backed by good science, I say that as someone who enjoys a good burger. But... as someone who has watched all four of my meat/potatoes/processed food loving Grandparents grow old, and spent many hours in hospitals an emergency rooms with them, I'm seriously thinking about giving up animal products for the sake of my Grandkids if not myself. Your daughter might be able to whip that vegan, but that vegan will probably never be overweight, get cancer, or other diet/lifestyle related diseases (hopefully your daughter doesn't either regardless of diet). And if he wanted to be more muscular, I'm sure he could start lifting weights and drinking vegan protein powder. The bottom line as I see it is that a hamburger, like a lot of things that taste good, is not great for us whether grass-fed beef or some sort of vegan copy.

Do you? Are you Vegan? Do tell. It's similar to position disclosure when covering stocks.
Full disclosure: I have been eating a predominately low carb diet for over 25 years. I am not particularly interested in the carnivore diet because I prefer adding veggies to my daily diet for taste and variety. I also eat carbs and drink wine and beer. But my carb intake is not daily and no sugar is usually consumed. But the carnivore diet is a safe and natural diet that some humans followed for thousands of years. If you can show me a vegan population with that kind of track record I would love to hear about it. I have yet to find one but maybe my confirmation bias has blinded me.

The risks of eating red meat (even in small portions)

 

[Swampgator]

Those videos appear to be backed by good science, I say that as someone who enjoys a good burger. But... as someone who has watched all four of my meat/potatoes/processed food loving Grandparents grow old, and spent many hours in hospitals an emergency rooms with them, I'm seriously thinking about giving up animal products for the sake of my Grandkids if not myself. Your daughter might be able to whip that vegan, but that vegan will probably never be overweight, get cancer, or other diet/lifestyle related diseases (hopefully your daughter doesn't either regardless of diet). And if he wanted to be more muscular, I'm sure he could start lifting weights and drinking vegan protein powder. The bottom line as I see it is that a hamburger, like a lot of things that taste good, is not great for us whether grass-fed beef or some sort of vegan copy.

The risks of eating red meat (even in small portions)

You appear not to understand what good science is. Epidemiology can NOT show causation. It can only suggest associations and in general any "conclusions" taken from an epidemiological study have less than 20% chance of being correct. Why Most Published Research Findings Are False
Again, I amazes me that people can think that meat, which we a species have consumed for 200,000 years, is somehow unhealthy, but that a fake processed substitute is the magical replacement.

 

[JRP3]

What exactly is "fake" about combining plant materials? Are salads "fake"? Is a beef hamburger "fake" since it's processed by grinding?
No one says veggie burgers are magic, and just as few people would suggest eating hamburgers on a regular basis no one is suggesting eating veggie burgers on a regular basis. Some of us see value in having an occasional "burger" without killing a cow.

 

[Swampgator]

What exactly is "fake" about combining plant materials? Are salads "fake"? Is a beef hamburger "fake" since it's processed by grinding?
No one says veggie burgers are magic, and just as few people would suggest eating hamburgers on a regular basis no one is suggesting eating veggie burgers on a regular basis. Some of us see value in having an occasional "burger" without killing a cow.

Seriously? Below is how they get the pea protein isolate. Also, look up canola oil (actually rapeseed oil) production. Then tell me if that is not fake food, what the hell is?

A process for pea-protein isolate production, resulting in low content of phytate and oligosaccharides, has been developed. Oligosaccharides were removed from the protein fraction through ultrafiltration. Ultrafiltration of 50- and 100-kD molecular-weight cutoffs (MWCOs) were tested, and both effectively separated the oligosaccharides from the protein. Phytate degradation was achieved by incubation of the pea-protein solution by addition of exogenous phytase enzyme. An almost complete degradation of inositol hexa-, penta-, tetra-, and triphosphates was reached using an incubation time of 1 h. The reduced content of oligosaccharides and inositol phosphates is likely to result in reduced flatulence and improved mineral bioavailability. These qualities of the pea-protein isolate make it a suitable protein source for infant formula production.

 

[JRP3]

Filter, heat, and add an enzyme. Wow

 

[commasign]

Again, I amazes me that people can think that meat, which we a species have consumed for 200,000 years, is somehow unhealthy, but that a fake processed substitute is the magical replacement.

For 199,900 of those years, we weren't raising cattle in factories and pumping them full of antibiotics and hormones, and we weren't eating them 3 meals/day x 365 days/year.

 

[Swampgator]

For 199,900 of those years, we weren't raising cattle in factories and pumping them full of antibiotics and hormones, and we weren't eating them 3 meals/day x 365 days/year.

Totally agree. Free range cattle and chickens naturally raised are far superior to the usual grocery market offerings.
Also agree that a large part of our modern problems have to do with meal frequency and lack of long enough fasting intervals.

 

[Swampgator]

Filter, heat, and add an enzyme. Wow

Boy, the bias is strong in that one.

Canola oil is made at a processing facility by slightly heating and then crushing the seed.[24] Almost all commercial canola oil is then extracted using hexane solvent[25] which is recovered at the end of processing. Finally, the canola oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation.[24

 

[EVNow]

Again, I amazes me that people can think that meat, which we a species have consumed for 200,000 years, is somehow unhealthy, but that a fake processed substitute is the magical replacement.

Well, isolating anything is going to take processing. Afterall heating is processing too - and a lot of food could not be consumed (even 100k years back) without some processing.

So, pea proteins, whey proteins etc are definitely processed, but not "fake". So are things like stevia or erythritol. Or coffee or chocolate.

 

[tander]

For 199,900 of those years, we weren't raising cattle in factories and pumping them full of antibiotics and hormones, and we weren't eating them 3 meals/day x 365 days/year.

Our ancestors were probably a lot more active than most people today, and more concerned with being predated on and getting infections, and those who survived into what we now would call middle age eating lots of meat still had heart disease/diabetes and obesity if they were inactive. Only a few hundred years ago it was considered desirable to be obese in many cultures. And the idea that our ancestors were living in the ideal ways that we should emulate today makes sense very little sense when you think about it. Just because they survived in a certain way doesn't mean it was the ideal way for back then let alone now, unless you are maybe Amish.

When my Grandpa was a boy and had a cavity, he went to the dentist with $2 and had his tooth pulled. If I get one now they will probably catch it early and it will either get better with proper hygiene/diet or they'll put silver flouride on it and maybe a small filling and send me on my way. In a hundred years hopefully they'll just have a vaccine, or better yet people will just be eating so healthy nobody will get them.

 

[Swampgator]

Well, isolating anything is going to take processing. Afterall heating is processing too - and a lot of food could not be consumed (even 100k years back) without some processing.

So, pea proteins, whey proteins etc are definitely processed, but not "fake". So are things like stevia or erythritol. Or coffee or chocolate.

So what is fake food then? Nothing in your book unless it's totally derived from chemicals in a lab?

Whole foods like animal meat and vegetables and fruits are non processed, real food. And you know (but don't want to admit) that this is our natural diet to which we have evolved to thrive on.

I think I'm going bow out of this Beyond meat thread and let you guys that have all the answers run it

 

[tander]

Well, isolating anything is going to take processing. Afterall heating is processing too - and a lot of food could not be consumed (even 100k years back) without some processing.

So, pea proteins, whey proteins etc are definitely processed, but not "fake". So are things like stevia or erythritol. Or coffee or chocolate.

I just had pea protein this morning, and like most white powders (salt, sugar, flour, cocaine) I doubt it's great for me. But I think it's probably at least a little better than way, and probably a lot better than bacon and eggs.

 

[tander]

So what is fake food then? Nothing in your book unless it's totally derived from chemicals in a lab?

Whole foods like animal meat and vegetables and fruits are non processed, real food. And you know (but don't want to admit) that this is our natural diet to which we have evolved to thrive on.

I think I'm going bow out of this Beyond meat thread and let you guys that have all the answers run it

Not to beat a dead horse, but I wouldn't assume that because our ancestors did something it's the best way to do things. I mean if you really want to play that game go back a couple million years and we were eating pretty much a strictly vegetarian diets like our chimpanzee relatives still do.

 

[Swampgator]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I wouldn't assume that because our ancestors did something it's the best way to do things. I mean if you really want to play that game go back a couple million years and we were eating pretty much a strictly vegetarian diets like our chimpanzee relatives still do.

Homo Sapiens is our species. Our species is thought to be roughly 200,000 years old. For at least the first 190,000 years we ate meat and vegetables. Occasionally fruit (when in season). I mean, do you think it's a good idea to deviate wildly from the diet to which we are evolved? Try feeding your cat 100% vegetables and see what happens.
Why Can't My Cat Be Vegan?

If you want to be Vegan and eat fake meat, go ahead. Just don't try and tell me that the diet I chose to follow, which has been proven to work over hundreds of thousands of years, is somehow killing me. Because you and your kind don't just want to tell me that, you want to ban me from eating it. Or tax it to the point I can't afford to eat it. That is the ultimate goal. You can use health, and when that doesn't work, move on to climate change as your reason. But those are just means to an end. OH BTW, chimpanzees can and do eat meat when they can get it. Chimpanzees over-hunt monkey prey almost to extinction

 

[commasign]

And the idea that our ancestors were living in the ideal ways that we should emulate today makes sense very little sense when you think about it.

Wasn't suggesting we should emulate the ways of our ancestors. Eating meat is fine. Just saying that the current methods of producing meat and the amount we are consuming isn't healthy or sustainable. To be clear, when I say "we" I'm not referring to folks on this forum or any of the reasonably educated population. I'm referring to the those of lower socioeconomic status who eat the dollar menu ultraprocessed cheeseburger or chicken nuggets 3 meals/day.

 

[Swampgator]

Wasn't suggesting we should emulate the ways of our ancestors. Eating meat is fine. Just saying that the current methods of producing meat and the amount we are consuming isn't healthy or sustainable. To be clear, when I say "we" I'm not referring to folks on this forum or any of the reasonably educated population. I'm referring to the those of lower socioeconomic status who eat the dollar menu ultraprocessed cheeseburger or chicken nuggets 3 meals/day.

Worldwide, availability of high quality meat is very limited, and is not being eaten in excess.
I do love me a cheap cheeseburger every once in a while. I do know this is not healthy as a dietary staple.

 

[tander]

Homo Sapiens is our species. Our species is thought to be roughly 200,000 years old. For at least the first 190,000 years we ate meat and vegetables. Occasionally fruit (when in season). I mean, do you think it's a good idea to deviate wildly from the diet to which we are evolved? Try feeding your cat 100% vegetables and see what happens.
Why Can't My Cat Be Vegan?

If you want to be Vegan and eat fake meat, go ahead. Just don't try and tell me that the diet I chose to follow, which has been proven to work over hundreds of thousands of years, is somehow killing me. Because you and your kind don't just want to tell me that, you want to ban me from eating it. Or tax it to the point I can't afford to eat it. That is the ultimate goal. You can use health, and when that doesn't work, move on to climate change as your reason. But those are just means to an end. OH BTW, chimpanzees can and do eat meat when they can get it. Chimpanzees over-hunt monkey prey almost to extinction

We're opportunists and omnivores now and long ago, but that doesn't mean it's always a good thing. It's good if your car is able to run on super low grade gas if that's all you can get, but it's going to wear out your car faster, the emissions will be worse, and the car probably won't run as well. And at some point animals products might be considered low quality gas for humans. People's diet is largely based on what's available, people who live by the sea tend to eat more sea life, people that live in a tropical climate with fruit available all the time are going to eat more fruit.

If by "my kind" you mean vegan, or democrat, I'm not, although the former seems to be making sense if you start paying attention to the current science. By science I'm not talking about anthropology, I'm talking about biology... and double-blind well designed trails. I don't think people should be forced to eat this or that, I still take my Grandpa out for hot dogs and burgers once a week, even though he's spent a lot of time in doctors offices and operating tables as a direct result of too much of that (it's a great way to draw more recent ancestral conclusions). When my Grandpa was born life expectancy for him was 56 and many doctors recommended smoking cigarettes, they were even included in his rations in the Army during WWII. It took a long time and many premature deaths and health problems (my Grandma being one of them) before smoking became questionable, and much longer before it was generally accepted to be unhealthy. Twenty years ago the idea that the best cars you could buy in 2019 would be electric was unbelievable to most. Ten years ago it was believable to some but still laughable and economically impossible to many. Today Tesla has pretty much proved gas cars to be inferior even though they worked great for many generations. Hopefully I'm wrong since I do eat meat, but more and more not eating it is sounding kind of like buying an electric car or not smoking to me.

 

[JRP3]

Boy, the bias is strong in that one.

Unlike yourself, right?

Canola oil is made at a processing facility by slightly heating and then crushing the seed.[24] Almost all commercial canola oil is then extracted using hexane solvent[25] which is recovered at the end of processing. Finally, the canola oil is refined using water precipitation and organic acid to remove gums and free fatty acids, filtering to remove color, and deodorizing using steam distillation.[24

Hexane is a very volatile solvent (boiling point 69ºC, or 156ºF) with a very low toxicity (LD50 in rats of 49.0 milliliters per kilogram). Hexane has been used to extract oils from plant material since the 1930s, and “there is no evidence to substantiate any risk or danger to consumer health when foods containing trace residual concentrations of hexane are ingested.” [1]

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/04/13/ask-the-expert-concerns-about-canola-oil/

Again, as I've said, I wouldn't eat it every day, same as a regular hamburger when I used to eat those.

 

[commasign]

Worldwide, availability of high quality meat is very limited, and is not being eaten in excess.
I do love me a cheap cheeseburger every once in a while. I do know this is not healthy as a dietary staple.

Exactly. I'm a sucker for In 'n Out burger. I have no problem with people that eat meat, especially here. I think anyone smart enough to buy a Tesla is smart enough to make their own decisions about what they eat. But... the food industry is really really messed up now. The jury is still out, but I do think an Impossible Whopper is probably healthier than a regular Whopper. I could be wrong, and in a few years it could very well turn out that whatever processing they do to make the current fake meat actually causes more disease than it prevents. But the key is market competition and innovation. We're only at version 1 or 2 of these fake meats. These are tech companies. Future versions of fake meat are only going to taste better, be more affordable, and be healthier.