Calling all former M, AMG and RS Drivers

[z335is]

Greetings,

I'm new to the forum and potentially new to Tesla as well. The Model 3 Performance is on the short list of cars that I'm looking at and I was hoping to get some opinions on the car from former drivers of the aforementioned performance brands. I have been a German car guy for the last 20 years, so the possible transition to Tesla is both exciting and scary at the same time.

I'm most worried about things that I've grown accustomed to, such as interior amenities, bulging fenders, snarling exhaust, etc. So to all you former owners (who I assume were in the same boat as me) was the Tesla Model 3 Performance enough to fill those gap?

Your honest opinions are MUCH appreciated!

 

[BLKMDL3]

Greetings,

I'm new to the forum and potentially new to Tesla as well. The Model 3 Performance is on the short list of cars that I'm looking at and I was hoping to get some opinions on the car from former drivers of the aforementioned performance brands. I have been a German car guy for the last 20 years, so the possible transition to Tesla is both exciting and scary at the same time.

I'm most worried about things that I've grown accustomed to, such as interior amenities, bulging fenders, snarling exhaust, etc. So to all you former owners (who I assume were in the same boat as me) was the Tesla Model 3 Performance enough to fill those gap?

Your honest opinions are MUCH appreciated!

My whole past has been M5s, CLS AMGs, Panamera Turbos, Audi S6 etc... And I now have a 3 and a X. The 3 drives better than all of them and way happier with the 3 than any of them

 

[RyanT]

I went from a Porsche 911 to model S to model 3. I agree with the post above. The 3 drives the best out of all of them. I've never slid into/around so many corners in all my years as I have the last 5 months with the model 3 performance : )

 

[Nate977p]

Here is my post from another thread, but I think is spot on for you!

My $.02 sense for you is that you need to decide what you are looking for at the root of it. I went from a last gen Manual Audi A4 and we had a M5 at the time as well. Nothing compared to that visceral 4.4TT in the tunnels. But honestly, the power was lacking in comparison to my P3D (mind you the MT had a Dinan tune with HP in the 600+ range). The feeling of lack of torque was due to having to deal with transmission hunting for gears, even with the quick gear changes of the M5. If you need the sound, you will be disappointed by the Tesla.

Here is my concise summary. This comes from driving my cars, company cars, and family cars a significant deal. Cars I have put enough mileage on to form a sold option in the last 3 or so years are (all 2013 or newer): MT Audi A4, Scion FRS, M5, Prius Prime, Genesis G80, Model S, P3D (my current DD), Volvo XC90.

Luxury: The M3 is less luxurious than competitors on the interior. This has nothing to do with it being minimalistic; that is it's most luxurious feature. All materials you touch feel great, but everything feels a step below the Germans. When I step into my 115k mile Audi, it still feels new and the interior is beautiful. I feel at the same age, the Tesla will be showing more age. There are also weird creature comforts missing compare to competitors (cooled seats, 360 camera, heated steering wheel, ext). The car is also noiser than I am used to on the highway. It is luxury quiet, just not Audi quiet. That being said, the white seats are beautiful. Overall, I would say it is definitely a luxury car, just not quite up to Germans, but still very well executed.

Sportiness: The handling of the car is amazing in my opinion. The stock tires are too narrow for the track, but that is an easy fix, and they are plenty for spirited driving on regular roads. It honestly feels as nibble as my old FRS, despite some major weight disadvantage.

Features: LOL. Nothing is close. It is amazing how my car gets better every day, I have never experienced anything like that. For any real highway driving, Autopilot is amazing. I arrive rested to places, it is a whole new look on driving. This car is so hard to compare to anything else.

Performance: Absolutely amazing. As I said, I have had some serious performance cars (from light and nimble to brute) and this is my favorite bar none. The instant throttle is amazing and changes how you drive. There is so much on tap. Over 70, it does lag a bit, but still plenty there! Also I feel the AWD setup I'd very underrated. There are two motors! You can do SOOOOO much more with that from a handling perspective. In the corners it is so balanced. You start to get a bit of oversteer, then bam, the front motor starts pulling you. It is such a weird, but amazing, feeling as it is so instant and direct.

Style: Meh. The Model S was stunning, and still is a beauty. The 3 is a very nice looking car, but is not trying to hard to be anything, it is just a sharp car. That being said, the P brakes and spoiler give it a nice stealth look. But you can do a lot to make it more aggressive. I did a blackout and new rims and it looks a world better!

Overall: In my opinion, this is the best car out there right now. It has its flaws, but they are beyond outweighed by pros. I believe I have a qualified opinion on sporty and luxury vehicles to form this opinion. The Alfa is amazing, I was looking at them; they are stunners. But man the 3 is just light-years ahead. While there are a few flaws (light on looks and luxury) the pros beyond outweigh that. You have to also realize the pros are not something you are used to comparing (Autopilot, updates, instant acceleration, dial motors) and once you have them, cannot go back.

Just my $.02!

 

[Jaguar]

The Tesla more than fills the gap, IMHO. I had an E46 M3 from 2004 which I thoroughly enjoyed when it wasn't being repaired.Of all the cars I've owned, it's the one that most resembles the Model 3 Performance, both being solidly planted and responsive when being driven quickly. Both also feel somewhat heavy on the road, despite the BMW being under 3,000 pounds. The Tesla is much quicker (no contest there) and at least equal to the BMW in cornering and handling. The steering on the BMW had a lot better road feel -- the Tesla's is numb by comparison but that may be due to one being hydraulic and the other electric; I suspect later M3s with electric steering are also lacking. I wasn't enamored with the BMW interior but luxurious interiors have never been a priority with me. As I alluded to above, the BMW was the most expensive car I've owned when it came to maintenance (and I started off with a Jaguar!). My hope is that the Model 3 will be much cheaper to own.

 

[JetFalcon]

I drove a BMW M3 for a while, and I didn't really enjoy that it was my only car I could drive as I didn't have a commuter car on the side. It wasn't a comfortable commuter car, it was a car that had an engine that only wanted to go fast, and going slow like in traffic was not that great.

But after I got the Model 3, I completely didn't care to drive the BMW M3 anymore, and only wanted to drive the Model 3. And it's only dual motor, yet I still feel it performs better than the M3.

And I can accelerate with control to any traffic light, especially those left turn lights, I can always make them before it turns red. I feel with gas cars, there is too much lag if you need immediate acceleration on moments notice. But with a Tesla Model 3, you get instant acceleration like the same way you play with slot cars.

I much prefer the drive of an EV than gas. It def feels futuristic, and gas cars are more like old school now.

 

[chickensworth]

Been driving several BMW's and M cars for the last 16 years. My E86 M coupe driven since new has sat unloved and untouched in my garage since picking up the Tesla. That was one of the last fully analogue M cars, and the experience now feels like riding in a tin can full of rocks down the street. The driving experience of a Tesla is very different, but in a good way. The things i thought i'd miss... the heel-toe downshifts, the 8000 rpm screaming red-line, the mating of mechanical systems and driver... are just vestigial memories of a bygone era. Maybe the one thing I miss if i was to nitpick would be the older hydraulic steering, but the P3D's electric steering is still nicely weighted and more than good. The Tesla distills and simplifies the driving experience and does what you want it to without hesitation and without drama.

in the style department, I think there's an argument to be made that the P3D doesn't feel 'special' enough compared to the other 3's. I think buyers of M3's and C63's like the extra bulge and flare... the alcantera or carbon detail... the ///M Power cast on the motor ... or the handcrafted signature plate on the Biturbo... it's part of what makes those cars special... that's definitely not a part of P3D ownership experience. Some people like the stealthiness, some people would prefer a bit more flamboyance especially as the 3 is only going to be more ubiquitous over time.

Personally, i couldn't think of a car i would rather own and live with. For the several years i spent waiting on the P3D (even before the Model 3 was even announced), i contemplated an M5, M6 GC, E63, P90D, C63 and an Alfa... couldn't be happier that i waited.

 

[DB-Cooper]

I've had 3 M3s/Z4MC, RS5, S4, S6, ATS-V to name a few. I almost bought a Giulia QV, but just got bored and tired of shopping, had a bottle of wine, and did Apple Pay from my iPhone one night just to end the search (I wasn't in love with the M3 Comp or Guilia).

Anyways, the performance, particularly straight line of the M3P+ is leagues ahead of the M3/RS5/S4/C63S. After maybe 80 mph, the other cars even out and probably are faster once they get the revs where they need to be. The M3P+ is always in the right gear (actually no gears) so it's wickedly quick.

The handling is pretty good, but not at ATS-V, Giulia, M3Comp levels, but good enough. I know in Track Mode it can lap a faster time than the others, but the overall feeling and dynamics aren't quite up to par, nor is the steering, but it's good enough in my opinion.

My major gripes coming from those cars are as you said, you miss the visceral feeling of an ICE, the NHV, the exhaust, etc. Although there is something appealing about silent maniac speed. My biggest gripe is the styling of the M3P+ is so muted, there's very little differentiation, aero kit, fenders, lower stance, etc. 99% of people would just see a Model 3 whereas most people can tell an M3 vs a 320i base model very easily. Other gripes are that the front seats sit so high, you can't get “into” the car, you only get to ride on it. This is partly because of the batteries, but you do feel more like you're in a Camry driving position than a sports car. The seats also lack the crazy bolstering, but instead offer more comfort and good enough support for spirited driving, but not up to the task of multiple laps at a track. Finally, the fender gap is ridiculous on this car, it really makes the car look like a generic sedan. I plan to lower mine, something I hate to do but it just looks really weird with the 20s and so much fender gap.

All that said, the tech, the performance, the efficiency, the silence, not having to gas, the overall comfort and the Tesla culture make up for all of that. A 1.5" drop with some moderate springs will really clean up the appearance. I did chrome delete and powder coated the rims which really helps as well with making it look sportier. Out of the box it’s a lot less appealing visually. It also has that sort of jetsons car look which I’m not a fan of but that’s only from the direct front angle. It’s not menacing looking in ones rear view mirror like those other cars.

Despite having owned dozens of high performance cars, more of my friends, co-workers and family are super impressed with the Tesla, they never cared about the other awesome cars. There's something massively appealing about Teslas to a broad audience. My mom tells her friends about how she got to ride in a Tesla and "it's the fast one". She couldn't care less about my M3s and in fact was annoyed by the noise and ride. My friends and co-workers outside of the few real enthusiasts feel similarly and always want a ride (they couldn’t care less for a ride in an RS5).

Good luck, feel free to DM me if you want to compare notes.

 

[Magnets!]

I've had 3 ///M cars and most recently an Audi S4 among 6 other BMWs. Everyone else pretty much sums up what I feel as well...best car I have ever owned. What you will miss: At least in California, the car is VERY common. Performance model looks very similar to base model, unlike current ///M cars. I disagree with one comment about interior materials being cheap. As an example, the window sill in my '16 Audi S4 was pretty much hard plastic...on the Model 3 it's a nice soft touch vinyl feel. The car is built very stout in the chassis, but other areas are built for weight savings and cost...you can see this for example in the trunk and door hinges. Fit and finish on my car is not bad, but not up to German car standards, but there are also some Tesla horror stories that you can read about. Driving dynamics are far above anything I've driven and the ride quality is better.

 

[Brando]

I've had 3 ///M cars and most recently an Audi S4 among 6 other BMWs. Everyone else pretty much sums up what I feel as well...best car I have ever owned. What you will miss: At least in California, the car is VERY common. Performance model looks very similar to base model, unlike current ///M cars. I disagree with one comment about interior materials being cheap. As an example, the window sill in my '16 Audi S4 was pretty much hard plastic...on the Model 3 it's a nice soft touch vinyl feel. The car is built very stout in the chassis, but other areas are built for weight savings and cost...you can see this for example in the trunk and door hinges. Fit and finish on my car is not bad, but not up to German car standards, but there are also some Tesla horror stories that you can read about. Driving dynamics are far above anything I've driven and the ride quality is better.

Want your car to "stand out from the crowd" ? Why don't you get custom wrap or paint or wheels. With a wrap, when ready to trade in or upgrade you could take off the wrap, and the paint might look flawless - right?? or leave the wrap on if it looks better.

 

[MXWing]

Honestly, stick with the the M, AMG and RS if you want to be my bitch while futilely making a lot of noise and get destroyed as I’m off before your tires even spin.

OR....

If you want to keep up with me and join the future, get a Model 3 performance.

 

[glide]

Fit and finish will be a step down from any German car. That much I can guarantee.

In terms of driving dynamics I like the 3 more than the S. If you’re a manual trans fan you’ll find the overall experience a bit lacking. It’s really just stomping the pedal.

(Former M3 owner)

 

[Nate977p]

Fit and finish will be a step down from any German car. That much I can guarantee.

In terms of driving dynamics I like the 3 more than the S. If you’re a manual trans fan you’ll find the overall experience a bit lacking. It’s really just stomping the pedal.

(Former M3 owner)

See that's where I disagree. I am a huge MT fan, my alarm two cars were MT, and a PAIN to find that 3rd pedal!

I thought long and hard on this and the reason I loved manual was the direct engagement. I had full control of the car; there was no transmission computer thinking for me. It did exactly what I wanted when I wanted.

I thought I would hate leaving my manual. I have yet to sell the Audi 6MT, and do enjoy driving it, but the experience is oddly the same for me; direct engagement.

Thus the Model 3's direct throttle and always there performance gives me that direct experience, with 0 lag. It is an oddly similar feeling to a manual in the direct feeling I desire.

That being said, I would love if the 3, even if it was just one of the motors, had a 2-speed gearbox; it starts to lack at higher speeds.

 

[MXWing]

Oh, and @z335is if you do get Performance Model 3, PLEASE do not take the BMW mindset with you.

-Use your turn signals
-Do not take multiple parking spaces
-Aggressively weave in and out of traffic when its obvious there is nothing to be gained. Double foul if doing it without using turn signals.
-Drive 55 in 35 zones and 80 in 55 mph zones.

EVERYDAY I run into a luxury German car owner that drives like an ass until I pull up next to them.

 

[Magnets!]

Want your car to "stand out from the crowd" ? Why don't you get custom wrap or paint or wheels. With a wrap, when ready to trade in or upgrade you could take off the wrap, and the paint might look flawless - right?? or leave the wrap on if it looks better.

Not for me, but more and more mods will be coming if you want to make your Model 3 stand out. One reason I passed on the BMW M4 for my previous car was I felt it had left it's German roots of design subtlety and gone over the top with boy racerish styling...not ugly by any means just not for me. So I bought the Audi S4. But it is an issue for some people...they want everyone to know they spent $70k not $45k.

 

[chickensworth]

The loss of manual transmission and the effects on driver involvement have been debated ad nauseam in auto enthusiast circles... but the reality is fewer and fewer cars are available with a manual... and every performance car still available with a manual is outperformed by their siblings with computer controlled transmissions. Tesla just takes that evolution further with an even more direct connection from foot to motor... instant throttle, no downshifting, and regenerative braking feedback all through a single touch point... its a different experience for sure, but certainly no less 'involving,' just less clutter between you and the car.
i personally find it liberating.

 

[cab]

Been driving several BMW's and M cars for the last 16 years. My E86 M coupe driven since new has sat unloved and untouched in my garage since picking up the Tesla. That was one of the last fully analogue M cars, and the experience now feels like riding in a tin can full of rocks down the street. The driving experience of a Tesla is very different, but in a good way. The things i thought i'd miss... the heel-toe downshifts, the 8000 rpm screaming red-line, the mating of mechanical systems and driver... are just vestigial memories of a bygone era. Maybe the one thing I miss if i was to nitpick would be the older hydraulic steering, but the P3D's electric steering is still nicely weighted and more than good. The Tesla distills and simplifies the driving experience and does what you want it to without hesitation and without drama.

in the style department, I think there's an argument to be made that the P3D doesn't feel 'special' enough compared to the other 3's. I think buyers of M3's and C63's like the extra bulge and flare... the alcantera or carbon detail... the ///M Power cast on the motor ... or the handcrafted signature plate on the Biturbo... it's part of what makes those cars special... that's definitely not a part of P3D ownership experience. Some people like the stealthiness, some people would prefer a bit more flamboyance especially as the 3 is only going to be more ubiquitous over time.

Personally, i couldn't think of a car i would rather own and live with. For the several years i spent waiting on the P3D (even before the Model 3 was even announced), i contemplated an M5, M6 GC, E63, P90D, C63 and an Alfa... couldn't be happier that i waited.

Definitely agree with the part I bolded above. Heck, I had an older (2002) M5 and my wife currently has a 2012 Volvo XC60 R-Design (i.e. the "sporty" one). In both cases, the "sporty" versions came with items UNIQUE to that trim level (beyond the power). As examples:

M5
- Color (Lemans Blue)
- Seats (Caramel or Black Nappa leather luxury seat style or two-tone sport seats - both different than regular 5 series)
- Extended leather trim (available with luxury seats - dead cow everywhere in that car vs. um, vinyl)
- M5 badging
- M5 specific rims (OK, that part is similar to the 20" rims on the P3D now)
- Specific gauge package and steering wheel
- Specific front and rear bumpers (former available on M-sport 5 series, but latter rear was different)
- Specific suspension

XC60 R-Design
- Color (Passion Red)
- Body color mirrors and skirts
- Contrasting brushed sliver trim
- Specific gauges and steering wheel
- R-Design badging
- Center console trim
- Specific rims (OK, that part is similar to the 20" rims on the P3D now)
- Specific steering ratio and suspension

It wasn't just about being set apart....they just flat out looked and felt better than the other trims.

 

[Lifeinabox]

Oh, and @z335is if you do get Performance Model 3, PLEASE do not take the BMW mindset with you.

-Use your turn signals
-Do not take multiple parking spaces
-Aggressively weave in and out of traffic when its obvious there is nothing to be gained. Double foul if doing it without using turn signals.
-Drive 55 in 35 zones and 80 in 55 mph zones.

EVERYDAY I run into a luxury German car owner that drives like an ass until I pull up next to them.

Lol, co-sign this. 6-series and CLK drivers seem to be the worst offenders around here. They know they aren't driving a sports car yet need to compensate through aggressive driving.

 

[chickensworth]

Definitely agree with the part I bolded above. Heck, I had an older (2002) M5 and my wife currently has a 2012 Volvo XC60 R-Design (i.e. the "sporty" one). In both cases, the "sporty" versions came with items UNIQUE to that trim level (beyond the power).

.

E39 M5 - classic

 

[cab]

E39 M5 - classic

Indeed...