Charging question

[TunaBug]

Earl,

Just to clear up some confusion/misinformation.. when someone uses a 3rd party app or site for their Tesla, they are NEVER giving that 3rd party their Tesla username/password credentials.

Tesla doesn’t allow 3rd party access with simple. Username/password. When a 3rd party requests account information it is provided via an access token.

When a user attempts to log in with a 3rd party app/site, the login process is handed over to Tesla’s site. Once the credit credentials have been provided, the Tesla site grants the 3rd party site/app an access token and redirects the user back to the app/site.

Think of how many other apps have a “log in with Google/Facebook/Apple” method. This is the same thing.

The 3rd party never has or sees your log in credentials because the user is “handed off” to Tesla’s server when they are entering the log in credentials.

The 3rd party only can access the vehicle/account info because Tesla returned back with an authorization.

Hope this clears up the false fear of “giving your credentials”.

Additionally, if you still felt worried you could always set up 2FA (two-factor-authentication) for it to be virtually impossible for someone to use your account without authorization.

I won't attempt to speak for Earl, but the reason I think your comments come across as naïve is because you imply that giving somebody access via a token, instead of my Tesla password, makes it safe. I disagree with that. It still gives them access to my car, I am still trusting them to not abuse it, I am trusting that their well intentioned debug logs aren't sitting somewhere with wide access full of PII or being analyzed by their cloud services provider.

Or to put that another way: you seem to be concerned with the mechanism for proving trust. Whereas I don't want to trust an additional party, regardless of the mechanism.

"Them"/"They"/etc isn't meant to single out TeslaFi. I mean any third party.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

I won't attempt to speak for Earl, but the reason I think your comments come across as naïve is because you imply that giving somebody access via a token, instead of my Tesla password, makes it safe. I disagree with that. It still gives them access to my car, I am still trusting them to not abuse it, I am trusting that their well intentioned debug logs aren't sitting somewhere with wide access full of PII or being analyzed by their cloud services provider.

Or to put that another way: you seem to be concerned with the mechanism for proving trust. Whereas I don't want to trust an additional party, regardless of the mechanism.

"Them"/"They"/etc isn't meant to single out TeslaFi. I mean any third party.

Well, you are right.. but I was referring directly to Earl’s comment in an attempt to put him at ease - just to be called naive in the process! It rubbed me the wrong way. I mean, on the internet people can choose to be anybody they want… so why be a punk, and not a nice guy?

I also found it odd that the solution to his concern - 2FA - was completely ignored as he went on a rant about cybersecurity. People with 2FA don’t have cybersecurity issues (unless the hackers have broken into your house and have physical access to the second device).

 

[Earl]

I also found it odd that the solution to his concern - 2FA - was completely ignored as he went on a rant about cybersecurity. People with 2FA don’t have cybersecurity issues (unless the hackers have broken into your house and have physical access to the second device).

I'm really not interested in digging into the basics of cybersecurity authentication on this forum with folks who seem to have their minds made up. I prefer to spend my time here promoting EVs. I've brought up the concern and all are free to heed, ignore, or dig deeper elsewhere.
I will note that, if one provides one's login password to a 3rd party, one's 2FA (jargon for "two-Factor Authentication'), is now down to only 1 factor, at least with that entity.

 

[CMPT PAD]

Question for the CHARGING Pros

Based on what I've read on internet and from this wonderful forum. It sounds like the best practice in charging of Tesla is as follows
(1) Charge less often at home? i.e. Waiting until the battery is down to 25%-30% then start charging
(2) Charge at lower A input? i.e. 40A at home instead of maximum allowable 48A via Tesla Wall charger
(3) Charge to 90% max?
(4) OK to charge to 100% for long trip? BUT... drive shortly after to discharge the battery
(5) On freeways it's OK to use Supercharge stations... but wait until it go down to 25%-30% then the charge time would be faster , charge enough to get to the next station, i.e. 200miles, (time to pee anyway) then charge again.

Pros: What's wrong with this protocol?

 

[threeputts]

Pros: What's wrong with this protocol?

Nothing really. 48 amps is fine it wont degrade the battery faster than 40. On road trips I aim to arrive at a supercharger with 10% for max charging speeds.

 

[RTPEV]

Nothing wrong with it, but some parts are unnecessary, or possibly done for a different reason than you think:

(1) Charge less often at home? i.e. Waiting until the battery is down to 25%-30% then start charging

Nothing wrong with charging more often. It's more about your own personal convenience and preferences. Personally I like to wait until it's down to 30% and then charge to 80% because it's a bit of a pain to charge in my garage (I have to back the car in). Ideally I would want to keep the battery (talking about the NMC batteries, not LFP here) averaging around 50%, so a 40-60% rule would work best, but frankly, that's overkill. As long as you follow the rule about not letting it sit for long at a low or high SOC, you'll be fine.

(2) Charge at lower A input? i.e. 40A at home instead of maximum allowable 48A via Tesla Wall charger

Nothing wrong with 48A, but it's usually not necessary if you have limited panel capacity, are using the mobile charger (with lower limit), or have demand charges that may kick in.

(3) Charge to 90% max?

This is a good rule for daily use, although as I mentioned before, I personally limit to 80% daily. Even then it takes me several days to get down to 30%.

(4) OK to charge to 100% for long trip? BUT... drive shortly after to discharge the battery

Yes.

(5) On freeways it's OK to use Supercharge stations... but wait until it go down to 25%-30% then the charge time would be faster , charge enough to get to the next station, i.e. 200miles, (time to pee anyway) then charge again.

Yes. You can even go lower (5-10%) if you wish (and get comfortable with how accurate the arrival SOC predictions are). The reason for waiting is simply because it will charge faster at the lower SOC. So all else being equal, if you were charging the same 200 miles (let's assume that's 65% of your battery), 30% to 95% might take 30-35 minutes, while 5% to 70% might only take 15-20.

But of course there is nothing wrong with stopping earlier if you have to pee anyway, and charging for less time if you have enough charge to make it to your next anticipated stop.

Use a tool like abetterrouteplanner.com if you want to plan optimal stops to absolutely minimize travel time, but if you are finding you have to stop more often than the car anyway, don't sweat it. Just stop when you need to and adjust your requirements for how much charge you'll need to make it to the next stop.

 

[E90alex]

Question for the CHARGING Pros

Based on what I've read on internet and from this wonderful forum. It sounds like the best practice in charging of Tesla is as follows
(1) Charge less often at home? i.e. Waiting until the battery is down to 25%-30% then start charging
(2) Charge at lower A input? i.e. 40A at home instead of maximum allowable 48A via Tesla Wall charger
(3) Charge to 90% max?
(4) OK to charge to 100% for long trip? BUT... drive shortly after to discharge the battery
(5) On freeways it's OK to use Supercharge stations... but wait until it go down to 25%-30% then the charge time would be faster , charge enough to get to the next station, i.e. 200miles, (time to pee anyway) then charge again.

Pros: What's wrong with this protocol?

Depends what your goals are. If your goal is to minimize battery degradation, then…

1. Charge as often as possible. Smaller depth of discharge is better.

2. Makes no difference. Charge at the highest amperage your setup allows for best charging efficiency.

3. Charge to the lowest SOC possible for your needs without inconveniencing yourself. The lower the better. Personally I only use 10-15% daily and I charge to 50% every day. That’s still enough to last me 2-3 days in case I forget to plug in one day.

4. Yes. Best to not sit at high SOC for long periods.

5. Just follow the Tesla nav. It will aim to reach each Supercharger at about 10% and preheat the battery to provide fastest charging.

But the main thing is don’t overthink it and don’t be afraid to use the car how you need. If you need a higher SOC then charge to a higher SOC. If you have a long trip then don’t be afraid to fast charge as needed. The above tips can help minimize battery degradation, but don’t go out of your way to follow each tip exactly if it doesn’t fit your use case.

 

[CMPT PAD]

Thanks all Pros
Too much "Internet information" out there. I wish Tesla had published a protocol to optimize charging and it's up to users to do what's best for them. Maybe the protocol is out there but I don't have it. If U do please share
Enjoy yours

 

[Earl]

Thanks all Pros
Too much "Internet information" out there. I wish Tesla had published a protocol to optimize charging and it's up to users to do what's best for them. Maybe the protocol is out there but I don't have it. If U do please share
Enjoy yours

Tesla's advice that its best to always plug in and only charge full when you need to on long trips is very good advice.
All of these suggestions are just possible further optimizations that make minimal difference.
If Tesla pushed protocols as complicated as we fanatics, they might scare away a lot of would be buyers who could be afraid to get a Tesla because "charging is such a hassle".

 

[ewoodrick]

Question for the CHARGING Pros

Based on what I've read on internet and from this wonderful forum. It sounds like the best practice in charging of Tesla is as follows
(1) Charge less often at home? i.e. Waiting until the battery is down to 25%-30% then start charging
(2) Charge at lower A input? i.e. 40A at home instead of maximum allowable 48A via Tesla Wall charger
(3) Charge to 90% max?
(4) OK to charge to 100% for long trip? BUT... drive shortly after to discharge the battery
(5) On freeways it's OK to use Supercharge stations... but wait until it go down to 25%-30% then the charge time would be faster , charge enough to get to the next station, i.e. 200miles, (time to pee anyway) then charge again.

Pros: What's wrong with this protocol?

(1) Not the Tesla recommendation
(2) Absolutely not. Home charging, even at it's fastest is slow. The cars with the most mileage have used Superchargers 100% of the time.
(3) Depends on the battery. Read the instruction manual. Feel free to set to 100%. The car will let you know if you are doing it wrong.
(4) No, lots of FUD about this one. Most of the studies about this one are based on keeping a battery at 100% of over a year.
(5) It's always okay to use Superchargers - see (2). Don't worry about letting it go down to 20%. Well, you probably will want to do it, because the the battery will charge faster at the Supercharger - again (2) is incorrect, on a trip you want to charge as fast as possible

(6) Stop listening to the Internet.

There are many different Lithium-Ion batteries chemistries out there. They all aren't built for cars and many of the studies use generic batteries. Early Tesla batteries had issues, just like early Nissan batteries. A little before the Model 3, they changed the chemistries to make them better, oh and also the manufacturing methods.
At this time Tesla has at least 3 different battery technologies in use. They each have their own characteristics. You can't generalize them.

 

[Earl]

(6) Stop listening to the Internet.

but we are the internet . . .

At this time Tesla has at least 3 different battery technologies in use. They each have their own characteristics. You can't generalize them.

Fortunately, Tesla knows the characteristics of all of their battery technologies and sets their charging software to treat each of them nicely, at least enough to survive the warranty period. Therefore following their easy instructions is a good plan.

 

[ewoodrick]

but we are the internet . . .

Exactly my point. Read the manual and listen to the car instead. That's where the real experts have posted their opiions.