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Chassis CAN Logging To ASCII Text Plus Graphing

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#422
MikeBur said:
Another thing I've noticed and not seen mentioned much is the power knee we *had* at 6.0 seconds of full acceleration. This has now increased to 6.5 seconds with ludicrous upgrade and appears the same as native p90dl.
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Mike - Excellent overlays. It certainly looks like SP85DLs and SP90DLs don't differ much, or maybe not at all.

The run of mine that you plotted (2/26-Run4) was on a slippery roadway, as were all 4 runs on 2/26. Since then, I've also added data to the shared folder from a few more runs on a roadway with better traction (3/1-Run1 and 3/1-Run3). I'm aiming to add some more runs this weekend.

BTW - I have 19" Michelin Primacy tires at 45 PSI. I tried a few runs with the rear tires at 38 PSI and it didn't make a difference.

Bill
 
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#424
If my math is holding out, 10/440 makes for a 2.27% advantage for the 90 over the 85. I suspected it but am very happy to see the data. I'm no longer remotely tempted to move to the 90 especially if I had to deal with suspension and seating differences. Bill and Mike, you saved me a bucket load of cash. If we find ourselves remotely in the same vicinity, drinks are on me :)
 
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#425
lolachampcar said:
If my math is holding out, 10/440 makes for a 2.27% advantage for the 90 over the 85. I suspected it but am very happy to see the data. I'm no longer remotely tempted to move to the 90 especially if I had to deal with suspension and seating differences. Bill and Mike, you saved me a bucket load of cash. If we find ourselves remotely in the same vicinity, drinks are on me :)
Click to expand...

I might just hold you to that. Of course, the first data we get from a p100d might make it more interesting. Too soon for that humor? ;)

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Bill D said:
Mike - Excellent overlays. It certainly looks like SP85DLs and SP90DLs don't differ much, or maybe not at all.

The run of mine that you plotted (2/26-Run4) was on a slippery roadway, as were all 4 runs on 2/26. Since then, I've also added data to the shared folder from a few more runs on a roadway with better traction (3/1-Run1 and 3/1-Run3). I'm aiming to add some more runs this weekend.

BTW - I have 19" Michelin Primacy tires at 45 PSI. I tried a few runs with the rear tires at 38 PSI and it didn't make a difference.

Bill
Click to expand...

thanks a Bill. I'll plot these later.

Also was intending to swap to summer perf tires this week, and ge some more data, though weather is still winter-like.

been in contact with Breser and we're going to try and gather some data on his 85D this week too.
 
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#426
lolachampcar said:
If my math is holding out, 10/440 makes for a 2.27% advantage for the 90 over the 85. I suspected it but am very happy to see the data. I'm no longer remotely tempted to move to the 90 especially if I had to deal with suspension and seating differences. Bill and Mike, you saved me a bucket load of cash. If we find ourselves remotely in the same vicinity, drinks are on me :)
Click to expand...
Assuming everything but the batteries is identical in each model (which I'm not sure is true), the upper limit to performance would be the battery.

It's possible, as the plots show, that the maximum current each battery can deliver is identical, which would attribute the performance difference solely to the small difference in voltage drop.

It's also possible that the 2.13.77 SW now limits battery current to the same level in both models even if the 90 battery is capable of supplying more current with different SW. This is pure speculation, but food for thought towards how MT may have run a 10.9.
 
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#427
Given how similar the 90 vs 85 results are, is it too far beyond the realm of possibility to think that some of the newer 85s are actually software limited 90s? Tesla may have switched to new cell chemistry much earlier than publicized but not wanted to advertise the new size for marketing/packaging reasons.
 
#428
Nickjhowe said:
Given how similar the 90 vs 85 results are, is it too far beyond the realm of possibility to think that some of the newer 85s are actually software limited 90s? Tesla may have switched to new cell chemistry much earlier than publicized but not wanted to advertise the new size for marketing/packaging reasons.
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Your theory makes sense and could be validated if we get logged data from older P85Ds. We also should make note of the battery revision letter if we see significant differences in performance.
 
#429
Nickjhowe said:
Given how similar the 90 vs 85 results are, is it too far beyond the realm of possibility to think that some of the newer 85s are actually software limited 90s? Tesla may have switched to new cell chemistry much earlier than publicized but not wanted to advertise the new size for marketing/packaging reasons.
Click to expand...

Two easy ways to tell:

1. Part numbers should be different.
2. The 90 kWh has a distinct SpC profile that would easily distinguish it from the 85s
 
#430
Bill D said:
Your theory makes sense and could be validated if we get logged data from older P85Ds. We also should make note of the battery revision letter if we see significant differences in performance.
Click to expand...

Mine is an early, Dec 2014. I would be amazed if it were the new chemistry

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apacheguy said:
Two easy ways to tell:

1. Part numbers should be different.
2. The 90 kWh has a distinct SpC profile that would easily distinguish it from the 85s
Click to expand...

any easy way to get battery part number? Didn't think of doing this pre/post upgrade, though one theory has been swapping battery pack for the upgrades. I don't believe it personally, though it would explain the speed (<1 day) and number of "battery-sized" palltets being lugged around when I was dropping off. This is wishful thinking for me, though if true would go long way to explain the similar perf chars.

i did do a SpC session recording last week. So much data to go through... :p
 
#431
I'd also like to get some more P85 data just to look at the initial one second current ramp. I wish I still had access to my old P+. We know from roll on runs that the battery can source current much faster than Tesla chooses to pull it in the first second. It will be interesting to see if Tesla uses more torque from the single motor P85 earlier on than the PDs.
 
#432
lolachampcar said:
I'd also like to get some more P85 data just to look at the initial one second current ramp. I wish I still had access to my old P+. We know from roll on runs that the battery can source current much faster than Tesla chooses to pull it in the first second. It will be interesting to see if Tesla uses more torque from the single motor P85 earlier on than the PDs.
Click to expand...
Sounds like I should meet up with Mike sometime for some Sig P85 data collection.
 
#433
lolachampcar said:
I'd also like to get some more P85 data just to look at the initial one second current ramp. I wish I still had access to my old P+. We know from roll on runs that the battery can source current much faster than Tesla chooses to pull it in the first second. It will be interesting to see if Tesla uses more torque from the single motor P85 earlier on than the PDs.
Click to expand...

Do you expect your opinion to change if a P100D is coming this fall (speculation of course)? I'm on the fence about the upgrade with my June 2015 P85D. I would like it from the "I want to top performance model" standpoint and your overlays make it seem like the 85 holds its own. With a 100 battery or larger does that truly unlock more performance or do they continue to software restrict it so all ludicrous performance is largely the same.
 
#435
Good point on the resale. It would seem launch mode could be more meaningful if it truly let out first second potential. Making you wait 25 minutes would be a bit of a cooling off period before it let you shred $2k worth of tires
 
#436
That "first second current limit" is 100% the result of Tesla's traction control algorithm. Reverse engineering exactly how that works might be possible by adding a second CAN bus interface to the logger, if that can be done. Bill?

BTW - I logged more runs on a roadway with better bite. I did both LM and FF launches and, initially, there's no difference. I'll also do some without max battery and see how they compare and post all later.
 
#437
Bill,
I think we are saying similar things but from a different direction. I've launched my car several times without sensing or logging TC events. The first second current profile does contribute to the TC equation but in a preemptive way and not a reactive way. If you have good traction, TC does not intervene in the first second precisely because of the limit.

Giving us more of that first second potential will up the required skill to get consistent runs and will put more demands on the traction control system at slower speeds when the feedback is less (less wheel speed sensor output frequency) which is a bit of a double whammy. The pay back will be sublime launches when you get them right and awesome 60 foot times :) I agree that it is unlikely Tesla will put that in our hands even at the L level.
 
#438
Below are plots of two new sequential runs on a roadway with better bite than my previous runs. The 1st plot is using Launch Mode and the 2nd is without ("fast foot" mode). Max battery was "ready" for both runs. They are not full 1/4 runs, but the virtual Drag Timeslips for each run are next to each plot:

3-5 run 1 LM.png
3-5 run 2 LM timeslip.png

3-5 run 2 FF.png
3-5 run 2 FF timeslip.png


These runs were typical of other runs, all of which indicate Launch Mode doesn't improve performance. To help shed some light on the traction control algorithm, closeups of each run's initial two seconds are below. The Rear RPM line overlays the MPH line and the gap between those two lines seems to be a good indicator of wheel spin in my tests:

3-5 run 1 LM closeup.png

3-5 run 2 FF closeup.png


I've added these spreadsheets to the shared folders.
 
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#440
lolachampcar said:
I'd also like to get some more P85 data just to look at the initial one second current ramp. I wish I still had access to my old P+. We know from roll on runs that the battery can source current much faster than Tesla chooses to pull it in the first second. It will be interesting to see if Tesla uses more torque from the single motor P85 earlier on than the PDs.
Click to expand...
Bill - My wife's P85 has a "D" battery. I'll run some data on it with the logger and post it in the shared folder.
 
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