Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Convincing others to switch to Tesla or EV?

I don't try to convince, I just tell remind them to stop complaining when gas is expensive etc.
I don't even understand why people complain about gas prices but switching to a cheaper fuel type is not an option. I know the initial purchase price is a legitimate factor, but I'm sure there are people who buy $40k new cars that could have bought an EV instead but didn't want to. If price was the only concern, then there should be no new BMW or Mercedes at the Costco gas station because those people had the money to buy an EV but didn't.

I supercharged at night and it was only $12-13 for a full charge from 10% to 99%, which I believe is equivalent to a full tank for most gas cars. You can only get about 2 gallons of gas in CA for $12. Sometimes charging can be free, then your savings are technically infinite if you can utilize it. There was a free chargepoint in Glendale AZ shopping center that was about 1 mile from my friend's apartment, I was the only car to use 1 of 4 charging stations after 12am and got free charging for 3 straight days for local commutes. I had an electric scooter in my trunk so I was able to get back easily, which is probably the main reason no one uses it overnight because it's mainly used during the day when people are shopping. And seems EV owners are not aware of putting an electric scooter in your trunk to utilize farther charging stations.

I could have also used the Tesla supercharger but it made more sense to leave my car overnight than have to wait in my car for an hour each day of commuting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DblOSmith
I don't want a vehicle with a glass roof or sun roof so that leaves out Tesla. I'm going to be replacing my pick up next year. I want towing up to 14000lb. For less than 65K What will my options be? I am willing to loose up to 100 miles of range from full. But still have at least 100 miles of range left . I am not willing to experiment with my money on whether or not an ev pickup will work for me.
I completely respect your needs and, for the moment, the range of choices to meet them is not great. However, I think there's a large market whose needs are less demanding. I honestly believe that, the faster and more that we can bring that market to buy EVs, the faster that the choices for your needs will widen (cost of tech will decline, range per $ will increase, number of chargers will grow, etc.)
 

Yelobird

Active Member
Aug 24, 2020
1,585
2,113
Illinois
I don't want a vehicle with a glass roof or sun roof so that leaves out Tesla. I'm going to be replacing my pick up next year. I want towing up to 14000lb. For less than 65K What will my options be? I am willing to loose up to 100 miles of range from full. But still have at least 100 miles of range left . I am not willing to experiment with my money on whether or not an ev pickup will work for me.
So generally curious. With no interest in Tesla why do you hang out on a Tesla forum for 4 years and thousands of posts?
 
Initial capital outlay is the biggest (which goes hand in hand with limited supply). Tesla prices might be normal car prices to tech bros and coastal California residents, but in most of the rest of the country they're f'ing EXPENSIVE. A basic MYLR currently costs more than my last four vehicle purchases combined. Even the "average new car price" of $48k is simply unaffordable to most people. Anything at what would otherwise be an affordable price point is crippled by short range and/or slow charging, effectively limiting them to local-use-only cars--and nobody wants to pay those prices for that.

There are signs this may start to change in the medium term as more EVs come to market. But until EVs that are actually affordable and usable come along (and not just the highest trim levels at double the base price), and decent used EVs are on the market at decent used prices (not 90% of new) you won't see much movement. Plus, the cost savings over gas only works out if you're already making comparable payments on an ICE vehicle or you're already in the market and need a vehicle. A MY might save me $2k per year in gas over my owned-outright truck and van, but the actual cost would be $10k more per year for several years due to financing costs.


Next up is charging. Even leaving aside charging times (real or perceived), the network in most of the country (especially non Tesla) is poor and lacking in reliability and redundancy. If I'm taking a trip in an ICE vehicle, I don't have to worry about pulling up to the only gas station along my trip, finding out the gas pump is broken, and being stuck because I can't get to the next one. Gas stations are everywhere, with multiple pumps at each, and even if I get stuck paying a premium I know I can get gas just about anywhere without undue hassle. The public charging network just isn't there (yet, anyway). And if charging at home isn't an option, you're SOL for the moment.


IMO the ICE bans are bad (if well-intentioned) policy because they ignore the substantial logistical, technological, financial, and social challengesthat have to be overcome, waving them away with essentially "our cause is just and our conviction strong, and that alone will overcome all obstacles". A favorite aphorism of mine is "for every complex problem, there exists at least one solution that is simple, clear, and completely, totally wrong" and in my experience it is almost universally true. It's been also my observation that most such solutions begin with "All you have to do is..." or "Just..." and ICE bans fall in that category (same with punitive gas taxes). Plus, there's an inherent element of compulsion; try to compel someone to do something they don't already want to do (or even something they would otherwise want to do on their own!) and you will immediately get pushback simply because you are compelling them, regardless of how good you think it would be for them. This goes double when the thing you are trying to compel them to do smacks of "let them eat cake" and the proponents don't understand why "those people" won't just bend over and take it in the shorts financially because someone else tells them to.


If you want to sell EVs to the masses, take a lesson from Tesla. They didn't succeed by screaming "GREEN!!!"; instead, they sold a cool car that people wanted for what it was rather than what it wasn't. Emphasize the convenience of home charging and pre-conditioning, the low maintenance costs, the performance, and the operating cost savings (once purchase costs are in-line with comparable ICE vehicles). Make a real charging network. That's what will sell EVs, not "do it because we say so!" But it's going to take lower prices and greater supply (used and new) to make that happen.


Personally I'm totally sold on the EV concept, and if at all possible I'd prefer to avoid buying another ICE car. I just can't justify spending the money right now. My current vehicles are paid for and I do my own maintenance so operating costs are pretty low. Any EV that meets our needs is far too damn expensive right now (in theory, we could afford one, but that would be financially irresponsible at the moment). And ideally, I'd love to see an EV Maverick as that would fit perfectly for "my" car (I'd even take a PHEV version at this point). But right now, as much as I hate my short cab 2005 F150, I cannot financially justify buying something else. I'm an engineer, I've run the numbers and have a wonderful spreadsheet to show for it. A MY would be nice (if it didn't cost so much) and we're looking hard at the Equinox (we'll see what the pricing really looks like soon I guess) to be the "family car" and I'd get the van as a hand me down for now, but I don't see anything happening on that for at least a couple more years.
 
gtae07,

Thanks for your thoughts; they were extensive and no need for me to copy them all!

I agree that, for most ICE vehicle types, it's still hard to find a "comparable" EV that is in the same price range, even counting savings over time and (soon, I hope) tax credits. I attribute a lot of this to demand/supply price increases for EVs (so many people trying to buy an EV and get out of ICE at the same time), which will ease somewhat as more manufacturers get into the market.

And, it's also true that there's not a real "used" EV market yet. I'd contend that there needs to be some kind of standard for evaluating and marketing the condition of used EVs, particularly batteries. Right now, I would have a hard time buying a non-CPO Tesla, because I wouldn't trust a non-Tesla dealer to know anything about the condition of the battery and how it was treated (and that's the most important thing).

The network is key, but it's a chicken and egg question that's hard to solve for non-100% EV manufacturers (eg, everyone but Tesla) without government assistance, because "few" will buy EVs without a network, and nobody will invest in a network without a mass of EVs. But, it's coming.

Buy what you need today, keep it in good shape, and trade for an EV when things are better.

Todd
 
  • Like
Reactions: gtae07
I think that's part of it, but I think the bigger part is a simple reluctance to change due to tradition or FUD. Even people who could easily afford it just don't want to change, in my experience.
And why would it be incumbent for a Tesla owner to become an crusader for EV's? If someone who is a non believer in climate change does not want a pollution free ( forget the long diatribe on lithium, etc.) is it up to those who know the science to convert them? Impossible in most cases. The most common answer for "those people" as well as others is " it does not pencil out."
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: DblOSmith

Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
808
1,164
USA
Buy what you need today, keep it in good shape, and trade for an EV when things are better.
I always advise to keep driving what you have today while saving payment money so that you can afford an EV when the right one for you becomes available at the right price for you.
I attribute a lot of this to demand/supply price increases for EVs (so many people trying to buy an EV and get out of ICE at the same time), which will ease somewhat as more manufacturers get into the market.
EV prices will drop because there becomes more high-volume/low-price manufacturing capacity in the world (batteries are a key bottleneck). Whether this is done by many manufacturers making a few models each or a few manufacturers making many models will depend on the will of the industry. Clearly, Tesla is on track to be a part of the former, as are several Chinese companies. Ford, VW, and GM may be. The rest are looking like they'll be out of the car business shortly.
 
Having a spot to charge overnight when away from home on road trip is nice to eliminate that hour stop to supercharge.
Well, on my Model S, I charge up in about a half hour. Granted, I don't start at zero, nor do I charge to 100%, but I've never needed to charge for an hour. Charging normally, I find dryer outlets, AC outlets, Trailer Park outlets, all over the place. But if I'm traveling, supercharging does NOT take an hour.
 
I'll add that being realistic is best to convince someone. Day to day in town driving requires no thought and you just plug in when you get home (unless you live in an apartment or can't install a 240V circuit). Driving out of town is mostly seamless and requires no planning if you let your car tell you what to do. But if you want to take side trips you will have to plan more. And as others have said EVs probably won't be mainstream until one can by a used one for $10,000 or less and not have to worry about a looming battery replacement charge.
 

Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
808
1,164
USA
I'm hopeing that one day Tesla will build vehicles again with a solid roof. It would be nice to get a cheap electric car to run around in for 5k or less
I think you missed the part that the glass roof is a money saver. Ever compared the price of beach sand (what glass is made of) to that of steel?
Luckily many other people make the same mistake as you do and, therefore, believe this is a luxury feature (another Win-Win for Tesla).
 
I think you missed the part that the glass roof is a money saver. Ever compared the price of beach sand (what glass is made of) to that of steel?
Luckily many other people make the same mistake as you do and, therefore, believe this is a luxury feature (another Win-Win for Tesla).
The glass is a money saver for Tesla since it simplifies their supply chain and production. That does not mean a glass roof is less expensive than a metal roof though (steel/aluminum sheet metal is actually quite inexpensive).
 

Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
808
1,164
USA
The glass is a money saver for Tesla since it simplifies their supply chain and production. That does not mean a glass roof is less expensive than a metal roof though (steel/aluminum sheet metal is actually quite inexpensive).
Good points. I'm not actually sure what the commodity material costs for tempered glass versus strong steel are. It would depend a lot on the supply chain and manufacturing costs of each since the raw materials for glass would be cheaper.
 

EVer Hopeful

Active Member
Jul 7, 2021
1,429
1,133
Texas
I don't want a vehicle with a glass roof or sun roof so that leaves out Tesla. I'm going to be replacing my pick up next year. I want towing up to 14000lb. For less than 65K What will my options be? I am willing to loose up to 100 miles of range from full. But still have at least 100 miles of range left . I am not willing to experiment with my money on whether or not an ev pickup will work for me.

This isn't a flame, but a genuine question: If you "don't want a vehicle with a glass roof or sun roof so that leaves out Tesla" how did you manage to rack up 2500+ posts on a Tesla club website?
 

EVer Hopeful

Active Member
Jul 7, 2021
1,429
1,133
Texas
I feel we should have the freedom to purchase what we desired. Let the market dictate consumer demand. I also feel that the government shouldn't be in the business of picking winners and losers. That should be driven by value of product and quality of service. If we continue down this path, we'll all be driving the People's Car, a Volkswagen Beetle.

That's all good and well, but if there weren't incentives to make people buy into new technologies, those new technologies would never exist because they could never compete against the established and well financed old technologies

...and lets not forget the incentives those technologies were given originally when they were new and railroads were old
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrGriz

Hiline

Member
Supporting Member
Apr 16, 2022
826
1,660
Los Angeles
That's all good and well, but if there weren't incentives to make people buy into new technologies, those new technologies would never exist because they could never compete against the established and well financed old technologies

...and lets not forget the incentives those technologies were given originally when they were new and railroads were old

Exactly. New technologies are always expensive initially then get cheaper as adoption increases thanks to economy of scale. Without upfront investment we’d never be able to move on from older technologies. Capital intensive technologies like electric vehicle need that boost from the government.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrGriz

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top