Detailing MS - Paint Protection Film Treatment?

[peakay]

Hey there,

Our MS is long overdue for a detail and I was planning to do a full clay bar and paint correction process using a range of polishes and a wheel from Griot's.

What do I do at the nose where our car has the factory optional paint protection film applied? Do I polish that or ? It's starting to look a bit dull and as I polish the car I fear that will be even more noticeable.

Any tips or guidance is appreciated.

 

[D.E.]

As I understand it, you treat it the same way you treat your paint. I have it on the front surfaces and hood of my car.

I’d try a wax or non wax surface treatment first. I’d try to avoid anything abrasive, at first anyway. Mine self heals if warmed, so I’d try cleaning it then warming it and see if it gets shiny again. If it is truly dull, you can try a mild polish. The clay bar should be fine.

And then there’s the lifetime of these films. The lifetime of the paint and car is longer. If the film is past its useful life, it may need replacement. The film will last longer if you use surface treatments on it similar to what you use on your paint. That’s what they tell me, anyway.

 

[JasontheBeaver]

As I understand it, you treat it the same way you treat your paint. I have it on the front surfaces and hood of my car.

I’d try a wax or non wax surface treatment first. I’d try to avoid anything abrasive, at first anyway. Mine self heals if warmed, so I’d try cleaning it then warming it and see if it gets shiny again. If it is truly dull, you can try a mild polish. The clay bar should be fine.

And then there’s the lifetime of these films. The lifetime of the paint and car is longer. If the film is past its useful life, it may need replacement. The film will last longer if you use surface treatments on it similar to what you use on your paint. That’s what they tell me, anyway.

I mostly agree with this except for the clay part. I generally do not recommend DIYers clay a PPF surface due to the extreme hazard of deep scratching that can then be impossible to repair.
Clean it as normal, and if you feel comfortable running a polisher over your $80k+ car then you can also polish the PPF. I recommend going VERY lightly, again due to the extreme danger of permanent damage risk.
You make a great point about the possibility of the PPF having a shorter lifespan than the factory paint itself so this always needs to be taken into consideration. There is a price to pay for rock chip prevention, and that price is an ever-diminishing shine on the PPF and the contrast this creates between your shiny factory paint. Of course the quality of the PPF you purchased also comes into play here.

 

[D.E.]

I mostly agree with this except for the clay part. I generally do not recommend DIYers clay a PPF surface due to the extreme hazard of deep scratching that can then be impossible to repair.
Clean it as normal, and if you feel comfortable running a polisher over your $80k+ car then you can also polish the PPF. I recommend going VERY lightly, again due to the extreme danger of permanent damage risk.
You make a great point about the possibility of the PPF having a shorter lifespan than the factory paint itself so this always needs to be taken into consideration. There is a price to pay for rock chip prevention, and that price is an ever-diminishing shine on the PPF and the contrast this creates between your shiny factory paint. Of course the quality of the PPF you purchased also comes into play here.

Wow, thanks for your reply!

I’m not sure how to interpret the bit about the clay. If one doesn’t have embedded sand in the clay bar how does one get the deep scratches? I use clay to get the clean glassy slick feeling of the paint but I’m careful to keep the clay clean. If I drop a clay bar it goes into the garbage.

In the past I’ve used a Porter Cable random orbit sander with the appropriate counterweight, the bonnets, etc, and it’s done a nice job on previous cars. You can generate some friction heat with it if not careful. Is it the heat that does in the film?

 

[JasontheBeaver]

Wow, thanks for your reply!

I’m not sure how to interpret the bit about the clay. If one doesn’t have embedded sand in the clay bar how does one get the deep scratches? I use clay to get the clean glassy slick feeling of the paint but I’m careful to keep the clay clean. If I drop a clay bar it goes into the garbage.

In the past I’ve used a Porter Cable random orbit sander with the appropriate counterweight, the bonnets, etc, and it’s done a nice job on previous cars. You can generate some friction heat with it if not careful. Is it the heat that does in the film?

We actually rarely use clay bars anymore, clay-impregnated towels are safer, easier to use, and can be cleaned if dropped.
I mention the risk of scratching with clay because I'm speaking to the general public here, not a IDA Certified Detailers who know how to use all detailing products safely. It sounds like you know what you're doing so you should be fine. Just remember how much softer PPF is than your factory paint. If you pick up a small piece of debris on the surface of the paint or PPF then continue to drag it across the surface it can scratch like crazy. You might never know because the surface is wet with lubricant. Sounds like you already know this and prevent it from happening. Still clay towels are safer and just as effective for maintenance claying. Clay bars still work great for heavy overspray contamination.
With your Porter Cable, if it is indeed a sander and not a polisher make sure of your rotation speed. I use professional grade tools like Rupes so I'm not familiar with the various PC tools and their relative speeds but automotive paint needs far less friction speed than grinders or sanders so do your research to make sure. Heat generated when polishing is your enemy.
If your PPF manufacturer recommends heat to promote self-healing then follow their instructions.
You're dealing with two separate substrates so don't expect to use the same process on both and yield the same result.

 

[Mike Robinson]

I mostly agree with this except for the clay part. I generally do not recommend DIYers clay a PPF surface due to the extreme hazard of deep scratching that can then be impossible to repair.
Clean it as normal, and if you feel comfortable running a polisher over your $80k+ car then you can also polish the PPF. I recommend going VERY lightly, again due to the extreme danger of permanent damage risk.
You make a great point about the possibility of the PPF having a shorter lifespan than the factory paint itself so this always needs to be taken into consideration. There is a price to pay for rock chip prevention, and that price is an ever-diminishing shine on the PPF and the contrast this creates between your shiny factory paint. Of course the quality of the PPF you purchased also comes into play here.

So, after a few years, can the PPF be removed, without damaging the paint, and replaced with new PPF?

 

[JasontheBeaver]

So, after a few years, can the PPF be removed, without damaging the paint, and replaced with new PPF?

The only damage we've seen from removing PPF is when it lifts off the underlying paint due to the adhesive having a stronger bond to the paint than the paint does to the underlying primer. (see my pics) This is why I would have the original PPF installing company remove it, so they bear any responsibility if this damage occurs.
Otherwise you can absolutely replace the PPF after it starts to fade and look bad. Just be ready to pay for the removal, it doesn't just peel off as easily as they like to make you believe when you first purchase it.

 

[Mike Robinson]

The only damage we've seen from removing PPF is when it lifts off the underlying paint due to the adhesive having a stronger bond to the paint than the paint does to the underlying primer. (see my pics) This is why I would have the original PPF installing company remove it, so they bear any responsibility if this damage occurs.
Otherwise you can absolutely replace the PPF after it starts to fade and look bad. Just be ready to pay for the removal, it doesn't just peel off as easily as they like to make you believe when you first purchase it.

WOW, those pics are scary!! So, how do I find an expert PPF installer/remover in Atlanta, GA?? How much should I plan to pay for 2018 Model S front and hood??

 

[D.E.]

The only damage we've seen from removing PPF is when it lifts off the underlying paint due to the adhesive having a stronger bond to the paint than the paint does to the underlying primer. (see my pics) This is why I would have the original PPF installing company remove it, so they bear any responsibility if this damage occurs.
Otherwise you can absolutely replace the PPF after it starts to fade and look bad. Just be ready to pay for the removal, it doesn't just peel off as easily as they like to make you believe when you first purchase it.

Yikes!
So how do you get the stuff off? Would heat help?

I’ll bet that was an interesting conversation with the Maserati owner. He probably cares more about his paint than most or he wouldn’t have had the film applied.

It looks as if the film might have been ripped off quickly.
Does a slow peel work better?

 

[docrice]

 

[peakay]

I mostly agree with this except for the clay part. I generally do not recommend DIYers clay a PPF surface due to the extreme hazard of deep scratching that can then be impossible to repair.
Clean it as normal, and if you feel comfortable running a polisher over your $80k+ car then you can also polish the PPF. I recommend going VERY lightly, again due to the extreme danger of permanent damage risk.
You make a great point about the possibility of the PPF having a shorter lifespan than the factory paint itself so this always needs to be taken into consideration. There is a price to pay for rock chip prevention, and that price is an ever-diminishing shine on the PPF and the contrast this creates between your shiny factory paint. Of course the quality of the PPF you purchased also comes into play here.

Thank you sir. So bottom line is treat it like really soft paint, but it might not have any shine left, right? Hopefully the contrast doesn't increase when I clean the actual paint, but we'll see. When I get around to doing it, if I have any interesting results to share I'll post them here.

 

[docrice]

For those who have PPF installed, after how many years did you get a new one put on? I assume PPF's lifespan depends on a number of environmental factors as well as individual product durability, but I'm nearing 4.5 years (mostly in the SF Bay Area but have had quite a few road trips) and perhaps in another year or two maybe I'll need to get the old removed and a new one installed. I'm less concerned about aesthetics and more functional (does the film get brittle/more difficult to remove as the years go on?). My current XPEL Ultimate is holding up well and overall has remained pretty much chipless.

 

[JasontheBeaver]

WOW, those pics are scary!! So, how do I find an expert PPF installer/remover in Atlanta, GA?? How much should I plan to pay for 2018 Model S front and hood??

I would start by searching the International Detailing Association's member locator site. Then follow up like researching any other service business, online reviews are important. If they do a good job people will talk about them, if they do a shitty job, people will shout about them.

 

[JasontheBeaver]

Yikes!
So how do you get the stuff off? Would heat help?

I’ll bet that was an interesting conversation with the Maserati owner. He probably cares more about his paint than most or he wouldn’t have had the film applied.

It looks as if the film might have been ripped off quickly.
Does a slow peel work better?

Those are not pics from my shop, I just searched the web for examples.
The problem isn't the guy removing or even installing the PPF, it's the quality of the paint job in the first place.
Most factory-applied paint jobs are good enough, but there are countless cars that have poor re-paint on the front bumpers that the owners are totally unaware... until something like this happens.

 

[Mike Robinson]

I would start by searching the International Detailing Association's member locator site. Then follow up like researching any other service business, online reviews are important. If they do a good job people will talk about them, if they do a shitty job, people will shout about them.

Thanks

 

[AutoElegance]

WOW, those pics are scary!! So, how do I find an expert PPF installer/remover in Atlanta, GA?? How much should I plan to pay for 2018 Model S front and hood??

We would suggest going to the Xpel site and seeing who they have for dealers in the Atlanta area. We are up in Massachusetts and use @XPEL exclusively and they are the top brand in the industry. Anyone who is using their product is certified and would be the best to also remove the old film. That being said, if your car has never been repainted you don't have to worry about the paint peeling off with the film.

 

[Mike Robinson]

We would suggest going to the Xpel site and seeing who they have for dealers in the Atlanta area. We are up in Massachusetts and use @XPEL exclusively and they are the top brand in the industry. Anyone who is using their product is certified and would be the best to also remove the old film. That being said, if your car has never been repainted you don't have to worry about the paint peeling off with the film.

THANKS!