Fixed: Loose rear end (pulls right accelerating, left on regen)

[zwede]

Hi. Actually my part has a C at the end. See pic. Also does the drive unit have to come Out. I thought it could be done without removing it or the sub frame.

Interesting. Wonder what they updated in the C version.

Yes, according to Tesla the drive unit/subframe has to come out (or at least be lowered) to gain access to the inner toe link bolts. The bolt will hit the body of the car before it comes out. Since the toe link mount is part of the sub frame, you lower it enough so the bolt clears the body.

But what I did instead was I cut the head off the bolt and then I was able to pull it out in the other direction, towards the rear of the car. That way I didn't have to remove the drive unit. That's also the reason I needed new bolts. I then installed them "backwards", i.e. inserted them from the rear to the front and put the nut in the front. This is also possible without removing the drive unit and the bolts function the same as before, it doesn't matter which way they are installed.

 

[DukeJockey]

If such a simple change makes such a huge difference in serviceability, you’d think Tesla would have implemented it long ago, unless there was a reason.

Just speculating, but does it matter whether the head of the bolt or the nut is on the side of the assembly that moves? My instinct says that the nut would be more likely to loosen than the head. What’s the factory orientation of the bolt relative to which side moves?

Or perhaps it’s a manufacturing reason. Maybe they can automate assembly only by inserting the bolt in the orientation that makes it difficult to access for service. Kinda’ short-sighted, but appeals to my inner cynic. If the expected service interval for the part is longer than the warranty, let the owner pay for it.

 

[zwede]

It's not that the nut could loosen because then they would need to install it the opposite way on the other side and they're not.

I think it's your #2 reason: The machine that installs all the bolts is designed to do it from the same side and there's another bolt somewhere on the sub frame that must be installed front-to-rear so that's how all the bolts are installed.

The same problem exists in the front. The lower control arm bolt hits the battery when you try removing it. Tesla says remove battery to replace lower control arm which is ridiculous. Luckily you can just cut it and install the new bolt the other way just like the rear toe link.

 

[mrjedistud]

@zwede. Thanks for all your help. Just picked up the car from my local guy. He did drop the subframe to get to the inner bolt but said it wasn’t too bad. Overall Tesla wanted about $1,500 for the work alone which is about 7.5 hours of work. This doesn’t include the part or alignment. My guy charged me $400 for the labor. Will test it over the next few days. Uploading pics of the old part which even he said didn’t look too bad.

 

[Zuikkis]

Hi!

"Happy" new owner of 2013 P85+ reporting. My car has damaged inner bushing on right toe link. The wheel has considerable play if you twist it back and worth by hands, moves a few millimeters..

I'm planning on replacing the link myself once I get the parts. I'll do both sides at the same time, although other side seems to be ok.

As for the part numbers discussed earlier, to me it seems that 1021420-00-B is for Performance Plus, and 1043964-00-C is for other models. The P+ advertising from 2013 claims that it has stiffer bushings than normal Performance, so that's probably the difference. But perhaps it might be beneficial to use P+ part for other cars as well? Or, non-P+ part for P+ for increased comfort?

Interestingly 1021420-00-B seems to be used in Model X too, 1043964-00-C is Model S only.

I have scheduled CCS retrofit installation next Monday on the local SC, I'll ask for the parts then.

Do you know if it's best to have alignment done at SC or can some "regular shop" do the job? I believe SC work includes air suspension calibration which might be a good idea..

 

[zwede]

Do you know if it's best to have alignment done at SC or can some "regular shop" do the job? I believe SC work includes air suspension calibration which might be a good idea..

Depends on the SC. They have good alignment machines, but the 3 times I had mine aligned by the SC they did it wrong every time. Don''t know if the machine was out of calibration or the tech wasn't properly trained, or both. Unfortunately I trusted the SC and didn't double check the alignment until I corded the inside of the rear tires. I did my own alignment after that: How to measure toe yourself (with pictures)

 

[Zuikkis]

Oh, thanks for the tip. I have actually adjusted toe on "regular cars" myself, I just thought Tesla might need something special.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

That's a weird quote from Tesla for sure. The service manual wants you to remove the drive unit to gain access to the inner toe link bolt and removing the drive unit is like 90% of the job. So why $700/side? Once they have the drive unit out replacing the second toe link is a 10 minute job. They have to do an alignment regardless. Would make more sense if it was $700 for one side and $800 for both or something like that.

Anyway, cutting the bolts like I did and turning them around is pretty easy. Your guy shouldn't have any trouble. Be sure to also get new eccentric bolts and that your new toe links have a B at the end of the part number.

Hey Zwede,

I'm in your boat - got a little bit of play in one toe link that is causing the back end to 'float' around'. My car is actually under warranty, but I have aftermarket camber arms so Tesla said "nope, can't touch your suspension." Fair enough...i guess...

My plan is to cut the inner bolt like you did. Seems straight forward enough, but a few questions:

Did you put the car on a lift to do this from below, or just jack up a corner and remove the wheel to go in from above? What did you use to actually cut the bolt? Air tools?

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Hey Zwede,

I'm in your boat - got a little bit of play in one toe link that is causing the back end to 'float' around'. My car is actually under warranty, but I have aftermarket camber arms so Tesla said "nope, can't touch your suspension." Fair enough...i guess...

My plan is to cut the inner bolt like you did. Seems straight forward enough, but a few questions:

Did you put the car on a lift to do this from below, or just jack up a corner and remove the wheel to go in from above? What did you use to actually cut the bolt? Air tools?

FYI, I happened to speak to a mobile tech as he was leaving lunch, and he said they they frequently just cut the bolts as well, instead of dropping the rear subframe.

Apparently Tesla doesn't give them enough time to actually complete the job the way the service manual says to, and so they just cut the bolts and replace them backwards like you suggested!

 

[zwede]

Hey Zwede,

I'm in your boat - got a little bit of play in one toe link that is causing the back end to 'float' around'. My car is actually under warranty, but I have aftermarket camber arms so Tesla said "nope, can't touch your suspension." Fair enough...i guess...

My plan is to cut the inner bolt like you did. Seems straight forward enough, but a few questions:

Did you put the car on a lift to do this from below, or just jack up a corner and remove the wheel to go in from above? What did you use to actually cut the bolt? Air tools?

I don't have a lift so I did it on jack stands. I cut the bolt with a dremel since there wasn't enough room for my angle grinder. Someone else on here used a sawzall which I think is probably a better choice (faster).

 

[Aggmeister2010]

One

Hi. Actually my part has a C at the end. See pic. Also does the drive unit have to come Out. I thought it could be done without removing it or the sub frame.

Quick Update: I was doing some inspection to see what part variation I had - I also have the "C" variant: 1043964-00-C

Odd thing is, it's labeled as right hand side ("RH") on both sides. I can't imagine why there'd be a different version for each side of the car, but is it proper that both the driver and passenger toe links are labeled RH?

As for the replacement process, it's super straight forward.

1) Lift the corner of the car, remove the wheel.
2) Take a picture of the position of the eccentric bolt so you can roughly match the toe value when you re-install.
3) Remove the outer bolt (#1) first to take the tension off of the inner bolt (makes it easier to pull out). Make sure you're supporting the brake/hub when you do this.
4) Loosen the inner bolt enough to where some threads are exposed on the bolt head.
5) Use a sawzall to cut the head off of the bolt.
6) Use plyers to pull out the bolt and nut from the other side, and the toe link will fall out.
7) Reinstall following the steps in reverse, but with the inner bolt installed backwards. Remember to roughly position the eccentric lobe in the same position, it can be fine tuned via an alignment.

 

[mkhan21784]

Update after 2+ months: I went ahead and replaced the second toe link for the b-revision as well. I figured it's only $90 with tax and I'll know it's all 100%. That said, I didn't notice any difference after replacing the link compared to the old link with welded eccentric so the eccentric weld is a valid repair even with the old toe link design.

Car drives as it should, perfectly straight when hammering it.

Thanks for the information. Is it possible for you or anyone else who has welded to post a picture of the welded eccentric? It would help us to understand where exactly to weld. Thanks in advance.

 

[mkhan21784]

Update after 2+ months: I went ahead and replaced the second toe link for the b-revision as well. I figured it's only $90 with tax and I'll know it's all 100%. That said, I didn't notice any difference after replacing the link compared to the old link with welded eccentric so the eccentric weld is a valid repair even with the old toe link design.

Car drives as it should, perfectly straight when hammering it.

Thanks for sharing your experience and very useful information. Can you or someone who has welded the eccentric share a picture of it? It would help to understand where exactly to weld. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ed Hart]

Slight segue to a similar issue with my '15 85D. It was side-swiped while parallel parked. The impact was just in front of the driver side rear wheel. The quarter panel at the front of the wheel well was crumpled, as was the rear door. This happened in a 25mph zone, so I'm guessing that's about how fast the other car was going. The driver didn't stick around to answer questions.

The car was drivable but didn't go straight. I forget which way it pulled, but it took constant pressure on the steering wheel to keep the car in its lane. Now the bit that's relevant to this thread: The back end would also shift left under acceleration, and the car would take off to the right.

Here's the work order for what was done to fix the suspension (the body work fills a small volume):

Concern: Customer states that the vehicle is pulling to the right during acceleration. Please check and advise.​

​

Verified customer concern. Replaced Left/Right (Includes Alignment) Front Lower Fore Links. Replace LH/RH Aft Lower Front Suspension Links. Replaced LH ((Includes Alignment) Lower Rear Control Arm Assembly. Replaced RH (Includes Alignment) Lower Rear Control Arm Assembly. Verified Proper Operation.​

No mention of toe links. Also no description of the condition of the old parts, which is now a bone of contention with my insurance. They think it's either normal wear & tear or subsequent damage unrelated to the original collision (per their claims critter: "a rear impact does not cause damage to the front suspension"). The service advisor told me the parts were bent, but didn't write that up in the description of work. The old parts were also picked up by the recycling service the same day the work was done, so I didn't have a chance to retain them.

The car is now much better, but I think I'm still detecting a bit of shift/pull on acceleration. I need to drive it some more to really convince myself one way or the other. Since my 85D is a '15, it probably has the updated toe links with dimples. However, would a good, solid sideways wallop damage the dimples and allow the toe links to slide? I'm also so worn out by the ordeal of getting the car fixed (it's been 14 months so far), that I'm just about ready to live with it assuming it's not going to cause other damage or excessive tire wear.

(If anyone's interested, I'll share my 14 month saga of delay, bungling, and incompetence in getting the car repaired. I'll have to tone it down, as I'm a new member and don't want to get banned before being allowed to upload my avatar image).

My own situation on a 2014 S has been six years and eight visits. No resolution. I have a ninth service visit on 14FEB22. Will advise this forum of outcome.

 

[DukeJockey]

My own situation on a 2014 S has been six years and eight visits. No resolution. I have a ninth service visit on 14FEB22. Will advise this forum of outcome.

I finally got my 85D going straight as new. The Tesla SC kept throwing parts at it until they had entirely replaced both the front and rear suspensions - my treat, of course . On several occasions, the SC simply missed tighten a few bolts (hey, we got most of them, ok?). One time I was able to wiggle the right rear wheel in the toe axis (forgot to tighten the toe link, oops!). Another time the front would go klunk when pulling away from a stop (our bad - sorry!). After the final visit for replacements, the car would still pull left under acceleration. The head mech looked at it and said there was excessive wear on the front tires. They swapped in a good set, and behold! it went straight. The worn set had less than 1000 miles on it, but it was 1000 sideways miles. They good-willed a pair of new front tires, after thousands of dollars on unnecessary parts and labor. I’m certain that if they had gotten the original suspension tightened and adjusted to spec, and put on a fresh set of tires, it would have saved 2 years of frustration and a pile of money.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

I finally got my 85D going straight as new. The Tesla SC kept throwing parts at it until they had entirely replaced both the front and rear suspensions - my treat, of course . On several occasions, the SC simply missed tighten a few bolts (hey, we got most of them, ok?). One time I was able to wiggle the right rear wheel in the toe axis (forgot to tighten the toe link, oops!). Another time the front would go klunk when pulling away from a stop (our bad - sorry!). After the final visit for replacements, the car would still pull left under acceleration. The head mech looked at it and said there was excessive wear on the front tires. They swapped in a good set, and behold! it went straight. The worn set had less than 1000 miles on it, but it was 1000 sideways miles. They good-willed a pair of new front tires, after thousands of dollars on unnecessary parts and labor. I’m certain that if they had gotten the original suspension tightened and adjusted to spec, and put on a fresh set of tires, it would have saved 2 years of frustration and a pile of money.

I'm not sure I understand....how did the tires get so oddly worn in 1000 miles? I'm not doubting you, just want to better understand what happened.

 

[DukeJockey]

The initial accident (angled impact to left rear wheel/door) also knocked the right toe link loose. This allowed the right rear tire to “steer“ left under acceleration, causing the car to turn to the right. It actually felt like the rear was sliding to the left when I pressed the accelerator. This required steering input to the left to keep the car going straight. The front and rear tires are now working against each other, which causes extra wear. This condition persisted for many months and multiple trips to the SC replacing bits of the front suspension, but never looking at the rear. (Steering problems are in the front, right?). They also replaced all 4 tires when the car was declared fixed, but the car was still going sideways under acceleration.

I found this thread and learned about toe links, and simply grabbed the rear wheels and tried rotating them in the toe axis. I couldn’t believe it when the right rear rocked in and out a fraction of an inch. At this point, I had driven on the new tires for a couple of months. Note the Model S is very heavy and very powerful (yeah!). It will rapidly destroy tires if the suspension is out of alignment. The accelerator pedal wears them out fast enough, but evenly, when aligned, which just doesn’t get old.

The SC tightened the toe link which finally fixed steering right when accelerating, but the tire damage was already done. The car now would smoothly pull to left under heavy acceleration. Since the SC had replaced the front suspension, the problem must be in the rear, right? Replacing the rear took several more months. Finally they discovered the new front tires were worn unevenly. They were ready to charge me another $1200 for a new pair, at which point I screamed “You’ve got to be kidding!”. They didn’t charge me for them. Yay (faintly).

 

[Aggmeister2010]

When you say the tire rocked in a fraction of an inch - I have some motion laterally (maybe 1-2mm?) in the driver rear wheel...If I grab the wheel and really put some umph into shifting it back and forth, it'll move 1-2mm.

My toe links are new, wheel hubs are new, and as far as I can tell the big lower control arm and upper control arm are in good shape...I kind of expect a very small amount of motion if you apply a bunch of force just because bushings are made of rubber, not steel, but maybe mine is still excessive for some reason.

My car's back end does feel a little 'wobbly,' but I chocked that up to tesla's super soft suspension, which is shortly to be replaced by Unplugged's upgrade.

 

[DukeJockey]

The motion I’m describing is by putting your hands on the tire at 9 and 3, then pull out with one hand while pressing in with the other, then alternate push/pull, pull/push. There shouldn’t be any appreciable motion of the tire rotating around its polar axis like a coin spinning on edge. I just checked mine to see if there was any motion, and I don’t detect any. When the toe link was loose, the wheel would move visibly, and there was an audible click in the linkage. On a hoist or jacked up I imagine it would have moved freely.

I don’t think a puny human could exert enough force to compress the bushings without a lot more mechanical advantage. Recall they stand up to about 1000lbs of thrust at each wheel in launch mode (do the performance models have harder bushings?).

The real tell would be if there is any difference between the left and right wheels.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

My left wheel has 1 mm or so of axial movement towards the back of the car when I jack that wheel up off the ground, I don't recall there being any movement at all on the right.

Both Toe Arms are brand new, tightened to the same spec. Front end seems tight as well.

Is it possible that the rear lower control arm is allowing for a mm or two of movement?

I'm seeing a pull to the LEFT when I accelerate, can't if it's the same or different or nonexistent on regen.