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For those that think $8k is too much for Full Autonomy

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by musicious, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. musicious

    musicious Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
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    Location:
    Wheeling, IL
    1. Try pricing a Mercedes E-class with the closest thing to Autopilot 1.0 (still not as good), it will cost nearly $12K in upgrade packages!!

    2. Use the Tesla Network to have your car earn money driving people around when you don't use it

    3. A couple or family could have 1 car instead of multiple since it could pickup and dropoff multiple family members throughout the day and be summoned when needed.

    4. Think about your productivity gains from not having to waste time driving yourself or finding parking... its like having a really cheap personal Chaffeur thus allowing you to get more work done (side jobs for extra $ or allows you to work less hours at the office since you work during the commute), or relax and watch movies, etc.

    5. It saves airfare and hotel cost on long trips since you can sleep in the back while it drives you overnight.

    6. Added safety that could prevent costly accidents and eventually result in significantly lower insurance premiums.
     
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  2. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    Apr 27, 2016
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    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I think pricing is fine for Model S/X buyers because on average they have incomes over $100k

    Here are some counter points for the Model 3 and future vehicles:

    1. The hardware is included in the base price. You get the hardware whether you pay extra or not. In addition, it's collecting data for Tesla, making self driving better for everyone.

    2. Many people will not share their car or trust strangers in it.

    3. I and my wife need to be at work around the same time and work in different parts of the city. There's no way we could do that with one car unless it was super inconvenient for one of us.

    4. I think it'd be a while before I trust it fully enough to watch a Harry Potter DVD in rush hour traffic. I don't even trust my wife enough to peel my eyes from the road when she drives.

    5. see #4, also sometimes long road trips suck.

    6. This really depends on the insurance industry. If I own the car and it's out driving itself am I still liable? If I had a swimming pool and some stranger breaks into the backyard and drowns I'm still liable even though I had nothing to do with it. If a burglar in my house cuts himself on knives then I'm still liable as well. Why would they not use the same logic for my car? Is it fair? Heck no, but that's how it is at the moment.

    Will insurance rates go down or up? We don't know. Yes, it'll be safer for you as a driver, but once you step out of the car and it is on its own the car might be considered more dangerous to others.
     
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  3. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    2,387
    Each of your points is relevant. The NHTSB has issued a many-paged-thinkpiece on autonomous vehicles that raises all these points and many more. We all must be aware that just because the technology has been demonstrated does not mean it will be permitted on public roads with untrained drivers, at least anytime soon.
    Among the known issues that the tests thus far (e.g. Google cars, the Singapore taxi experiment, the Pittsburgh taxi experiment and others) have brought out are technology issues and copious liability issues.

    For example here are a few;
    1. The road signage is incorrect and the machine follows it. Who is liable for the resulting accident?
    2. The non-driver programming the destination makes a mistake. Is the user liable for the consequences?
    3. A snowfall or other weather interferes and an accident ensues. The responsible authority did not properly clear the road. Who is liable.
    4. The vehicle is;
    a. certified under authority 1;
    b. licensed under authority 2;
    c. operating in area of authority 3;
    d. being used by someone from authority 4 area;
    e. legally operated by an entity registered in authority 5 area but;
    f. owned by a lessor from authority 6 area;
    g. built in authority 7 area;
    h. built by manufacturer in authority 8 area under license from;
    i. a company in authority 9 area;
    j. with critical autonomous componentry from several other jurisdictions.



    There are dozens of such questions, many of them do not have answers thus far, at least consistent ones.
    Thus far Tesla has been leading the pack in actual deployment of working level 2 automation of driver assistance. Level 4 and level 5 are vastly more complex. As Elon said [but many choose to ignore] the hardware side is the least complex issue. He also said that regulatory and legal questions will delay actual level 5 deployment for an undefinable time. Thus, we will have gradually increasing functionality but level 5 will not happen for years.

    BTW, if anybody thinks i have listed too many items, the truth is that there are far too few listed. The NTSB has raised more an 100 issues and commenters of the proposals are raising many more. A quick review of maritime and aviation accident cases finds this level of complexity as a completely normal part of daily life. We already have it with cars but less frequently because operator error is now the cause of >99% of all mishaps. That will change, and be a very good thing, but is already adding complexity. Right now just think of all the Tesla accidents being blamed on AP, when we all know we are told it is our own responsibility to control the vehicle, not that of the AP.
     
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  4. SDRick

    SDRick Member

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    SD CA United States
    If this thread is solely based on is "$8k is too much for Full Autonomy", the answer is $8000 would be a bargain!

    Full autonomy is a game changer. This would become a huge disrupter just on the human capital side alone. No one would drive for pay of $8,000 per year. Let alone if you figure the real amortized cost of this equipment is probably in the neighborhood of less than $800 per year!


     
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