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FSD interventions - what still needs help?

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My daily driver is my late 2017 Model S75, which earlier this year was upgraded to the FSD (hw3) computer and MCU2. I purchased this car new with EAP. After the hardware updates, I subscribed to 1 month of FSD for $99. Immediately after that month was up I received the free month demo of FSD. After that month was up, I decided to purchase FSD outright as I really enjoy having it. It's much better than EAP was on the freeways, and obviously it's better on surface streets. So, I've been driving with it and using it for about 95% of my time behind the wheel, for roughly the past 3 months. Overall I'm very pleased and impressed. I don't have issues with the acceleration from stop signs/lights; I think that it's OK as is.

That said, there are still a few annoyances that just have me scratching my head, or outright frustrated. I'm wondering what other people's experiences are too, for those of you who overall like and use FSD.

One of the main things that just does not work well for FSD in my car, is for lack of a better description "aiming" while making turns. This is mostly true during left hand turns on multi-lane intersections, but also just around neighborhood streets sometimes, and also occasionally on right-hand turns. For example here's an intersection I go through almost daily, and have to intervene / disengage FSD almost every time:

1719430553500.png


The green arc would be my preferred path, but FSD almost always takes something like the red line. As it approaches the end of the turn, I have to take over to avoid hitting the median curb (outlined in yellow at the bottom center of the that image).

Another example, turning onto the same expressway from a different cross-street:

1719431460077.png


I would prefer to take something like the green arc (even wider, actually) and FSD wants to constantly cut a straight beeline from median to median, forcing me to disengage FSD to avoid clipping the median curb.

Another one that is a head scratcher for me is the freeway interchange from CA-85N to 237E in Silicon Valley. There's a merge onto CA85N at the same time as the desired exit to 237E:
1719431857260.png

about 7 or 8 times out of ten, FSD prepares for this exit, but then just keeps going straight on 85N, despite being in the correct lane, and having turned its turn signal on. I have to intervene at the last moment to turn the car onto the exit ramp (like right where that car is in the image, just below the green signs). This kind of behavior has happened a few other times at other ramps I take less frequently, but it happens A LOT at this particular ramp/interchange. Most other fwy interchanges it handles perfectly. Incidentally, EAP's Nav on AP functionality also messed this up most of the time (maybe 95% of attempts; it truly rarely got it right). Also the subsequent merge from this ramp onto 237E is difficult for it: it's another dual merge/exit, and FSD wants to stay in the merge/exit lane rather than get over into the proper fwy lanes. If I let it do that we would exit the fwy onto a surface street.

One final annoyance is how it constantly changes its speed even when there's no apparent reason to. I have the auto speed setting to "off" yet it still adjusts max speed all the time.

So, do other people have similar problems? If so what car are you driving and which HW (camera/sensor suite? FSD computer generation? MCU generation?) do you drive?

What does FSD continue to get wrong for you?
 
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I just completed a 4,500 mile road trip, and the vast majority of my interventions were caused by FSD failing to make lane changes that I initiated, mostly on the highway. I started a thread about it here: Auto Lane Change unreliable in FSD v12.3.6

Like you, I experienced “sloppy” turns, but none that required intervention. FSD would also occasionally choose a turn-only lane when I wasn’t turning, but that didn’t happen often. I was using FSD v12.3.6 in 2024.3.25 and then 2024.14.9, in my 2023 HW4 Model S.

Unlike you, I don’t really see any difference between FSD and EAP Navigate on Autopilot on the highway, where FSD is still using the v11 stack. FSD handles exit ramps better, but once you’re on the highway, they seem about the same.
 
Unlike you, I don’t really see any difference between FSD and EAP Navigate on Autopilot on the highway, where FSD is still using the v11 stack. FSD handles exit ramps better, but once you’re on the highway, they seem about the same.

Interesting. I see a big difference in the overall "feel" of driving on the fwy between FSD and EAP/NoAP. It's more assertive when changing lanes (usually not always) than NoAP, and it's less "strict" with most things, especially lane centering, which is sometimes worse than EAP. FSD will occasionally drift to the outside of the lane when the fwy is turning. Often, FSD cuts it too close to the center median on some fwy or hwy sections. FSD will (usually) more quickly change lanes into a normal lane and out of the merge lane after entering a fwy. Automated / self-determined lane changes are way more frequent with FSD than EAP. Also EAP would stick strictly to the set speed limit unless impeded by traffic ahead. FSD's chosen speed wanders all over the place, even when I have the auto speed setting turned off.
 
first, I love FSD, 12.3.6 is an major advancement and we are going in the right direction since v11

my repeatable, edge case intervention in a 2023/MYP/USS FSD 12.3.6 is crossing a miss aligned, unmarked intersection when in the left lane as a lead vehicle
crazy experience, suggest trying yourself but be ready to intervene

below are my edges, I have two in my town
not insane:
(red box is my Tesla, blue is the other person, turning car, black line is bad path the FSD takes, green line is what should happen)
its head on into the blue car
FSD should be coupling mapped data with camera vision to successfully cross
why would it get lost if it knows how the intersection is laid out
btw, shame on the civil engineer for designing such an intersection (most 17 year olds would muff this also, like FSD)
1719435493695.png

insane, vehicle typically looses it mind in the middle of the intersection and does not know how to cross
(red box is my Tesla, blue is the other person, car going straight across, black line is bad path the FSD takes, green line is what should happen)
1719435725961.png
 

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One final annoyance is how it constantly changes its speed even when there's no apparent reason to. I have the auto speed setting to "off" yet it still adjusts max speed all the time.
Have you paid attention to how it's showing the speed limit on the IP display when is seems to be changing set speed for no reason? Almost every time I see this it's directly a result of it detecting what it sees as a change in the speed limit. Now many times this is it incorrectly reacting to signs like state highway signs, which in IN are white rectangular shape with black letters. So signs for IN-46 get interpreted as 45 mph speed limit. Now luckly it has some rationality limits such the IN-135 gets interpreted as 35 mph and not 135 mph for speed limit!.
 
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I go through a mis-aligned intersection but it has no stops/light in my direction. It handles the jog quite well. It still is putting on the blinker way too far in advance and it still mis-locates addresses. I live rural where there basically are no street addresses (everyone gets mail at the post office). Google maps kinda knows where things are but the car nav still can't get it right.
 
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Have you paid attention to how it's showing the speed limit on the IP display when is seems to be changing set speed for no reason? Almost every time I see this it's directly a result of it detecting what it sees as a change in the speed limit. Now many times this is it incorrectly reacting to signs like state highway signs, which in IN are white rectangular shape with black letters. So signs for IN-46 get interpreted as 45 mph speed limit. Now luckly it has some rationality limits such the IN-135 gets interpreted as 35 mph and not 135 mph for speed limit!.
Yes; about half the time the speed set indicator is blue, which I think means it changed its set max speed for (reasons, not always a posted sign). The other half of the time it just slows down for no reason that I can see, and if I nudge it (love that you can nudge it, but hate how frequently it is necessary) it will speed back up.
 
I go through a mis-aligned intersection but it has no stops/light in my direction. It handles the jog quite well. It still is putting on the blinker way too far in advance and it still mis-locates addresses. I live rural where there basically are no street addresses (everyone gets mail at the post office). Google maps kinda knows where things are but the car nav still can't get it right.
Think my repeatable edge case is different
These are major intersections
My point, why isn’t FSD using map date also?
 
FSD's chosen speed wanders all over the place, even when I have the auto speed setting turned off.
Are you saying you see this behavior on the highway? The auto speed setting isn’t used on the highway, so it doesn’t matter whether it’s on or off. On my road trip, I rarely experienced speed variations on the highway except when the car detected an incorrect speed limit. Off the highway, FSD does vary the speed a lot, whether or not you use the auto speed setting.
 
I took advantage of the one-month trial of FSD that ended, for me, in May. Having only done the trial, my experiences will not be as complete as those here who are using FSD on a constant basis. That said, my experiences during the trial did not inspire me to continue with FSD under subscription. I went into some detail on this in another thread, but to sum up, I found FSD basically unusable in urban driving, at least in the urban area that I live (Ottawa ON) and only moderately good on the freeway. In urban driving, there was a continual need for interventions on my part to avoid accidents, and frequent unilateral disengagement of the FSD. Those aspects of FSD were better on the freeway, but the need for intervention on the freeway and to be prepared for disengagement of FSD still happened more often than I would have liked.

On the freeway, one situation in particular where the Tesla FSD failed to perform was in thinking ahead and adjusting to allow other cars entering the freeway to safely merge. I monitored it closely and FSD was detecting the merging cars well in advance and in many situations would have been able to change lanes to give them room, but it never did so - not even once - in my experience with it. Nor did it use the alternative approach of staying in the same lane but speeding up or slowing down in an anticipatory fashion to make room. In each case, rather, I had to take over controls to do this. In the few situations where I did not intervene, the FSD used very sudden braking to make room at the last second, which was not a good experience and not good driving. I would have thought that managing the freeway merges of other cars is something that FSD would have learned or been programmed to do, and indeed would be an area where FSD could excel. I was quite surprised and disappointed that it was not able to do this. Perhaps Tesla has fixed this problem since then - I was using version 12.3.3. If this aspect of FSD is now fixed, I would be interested to know that this is the case.
 
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My daily driver is my late 2017 Model S75, which earlier this year was upgraded to the FSD (hw3) computer and MCU2. I purchased this car new with EAP. After the hardware updates, I subscribed to 1 month of FSD for $99. Immediately after that month was up I received the free month demo of FSD. After that month was up, I decided to purchase FSD outright as I really enjoy having it. It's much better than EAP was on the freeways, and obviously it's better on surface streets. So, I've been driving with it and using it for about 95% of my time behind the wheel, for roughly the past 3 months. Overall I'm very pleased and impressed. I don't have issues with the acceleration from stop signs/lights; I think that it's OK as is.

That said, there are still a few annoyances that just have me scratching my head, or outright frustrated. I'm wondering what other people's experiences are too, for those of you who overall like and use FSD.

One of the main things that just does not work well for FSD in my car, is for lack of a better description "aiming" while making turns. This is mostly true during left hand turns on multi-lane intersections, but also just around neighborhood streets sometimes, and also occasionally on right-hand turns. For example here's an intersection I go through almost daily, and have to intervene / disengage FSD almost every time:

View attachment 1060032

The green arc would be my preferred path, but FSD almost always takes something like the red line. As it approaches the end of the turn, I have to take over to avoid hitting the median curb (outlined in yellow at the bottom center of the that image).

Another example, turning onto the same expressway from a different cross-street:

View attachment 1060043

I would prefer to take something like the green arc (even wider, actually) and FSD wants to constantly cut a straight beeline from median to median, forcing me to disengage FSD to avoid clipping the median curb.

Another one that is a head scratcher for me is the freeway interchange from CA-85N to 237E in Silicon Valley. There's a merge onto CA85N at the same time as the desired exit to 237E:
View attachment 1060044
about 7 or 8 times out of ten, FSD prepares for this exit, but then just keeps going straight on 85N, despite being in the correct lane, and having turned its turn signal on. I have to intervene at the last moment to turn the car onto the exit ramp (like right where that car is in the image, just below the green signs). This kind of behavior has happened a few other times at other ramps I take less frequently, but it happens A LOT at this particular ramp/interchange. Most other fwy interchanges it handles perfectly. Incidentally, EAP's Nav on AP functionality also messed this up most of the time (maybe 95% of attempts; it truly rarely got it right). Also the subsequent merge from this ramp onto 237E is difficult for it: it's another dual merge/exit, and FSD wants to stay in the merge/exit lane rather than get over into the proper fwy lanes. If I let it do that we would exit the fwy onto a surface street.

One final annoyance is how it constantly changes its speed even when there's no apparent reason to. I have the auto speed setting to "off" yet it still adjusts max speed all the time.

So, do other people have similar problems? If so what car are you driving and which HW (camera/sensor suite? FSD computer generation? MCU generation?) do you drive?

What does FSD continue to get wrong for you?
I also experienced FSD cutting into turns too closely, rather than taking the 'green arc' that you illustrate. This deficiency (in my view) of FSD was pretty constant and seems to be built into the programming.
 
Below is an interesting video review of experiences with FSD 12.4:

https://insideevs.com/news/724479/tesla-fsd-12-4-1-real-world-test/

Interestingly, although the reviewer finds 12.4 seems to be "more capable" than 12.3, he does not like it as much because it is overly cautious and not as smooth.

The test is only of urban driving and I must say that even though the reviewer is not entirely pleased, his experience as shown is dramatically better than my own recent experience with FSD in an urban environment. In my experience in Ottawa ON, I could not drive for more than 30-60 seconds without a need for an intervention or without a complete disengagement. I continue to wonder if FSD is more capable in some geographic areas than others. Or perhaps there is something about my vehicle (a 4-year old Model 3) that makes it unsuitable for FSD.
 
  • Almost collides with trash receptacles (trash day) on narrow road. Have to intervene. Repeatable.
  • Not consistently using the proper interstate entrances or exits. Sometimes will turn on first exit (the correct exit being the second). Sometimes the second. Sometimes ignores the exit. Sometimes gets it right.
  • Has difficulty merging into a busy lane if not given a wide enough right of way.