FSD on Used Teslas

[Jae001]

Has anyone else noticed that most used car dealers, CarMax, Vroom, Cars.com, Carvana, CarLotz and a lot of other traditional dealerships don't include a picture of the about screen or even in the description if a used Tesla has FSD? Some will literally take a picture of every screen on the Tesla and either cut off or not take a picture of the one screen that confirms the Tesla has FSD. This is a $15,000 option you would think these companies would know this and put it out there to sell more cars.

It is so frustrating that 99% of the dealers do not list feature. I guess I should not complain as the cars I have found that have FSD are not marked up 15K for having it. Any thoughts?

 

[Watts_Up]

You have to be carefull, it was reported on many TMC threads that Tesla suppress the Full FSD for cars sold by a third parties like a dealer.

I believe that only direct sales from the car owner allow to have the SD to be transferred.

 

[CapeOne]

This is a $15,000 option you would think these companies would know this and put it out there to sell more cars. It is so frustrating that 99% of the dealers do not list feature. I guess I should not complain as the cars I have found that have FSD are not marked up 15K for having it. Any thoughts?

FSD is a $15k option when purchased (new) through Tesla but in the resale market, it generally isn't worth anywhere near that much.

If CarMax, Carvana or others are advertising a car as having FSD then buyers need to get that in writing.

There have also been issues when cars actually had it at the time (displayed on screen) but Tesla later removed it during an audit process. When Tesla sells cars at auction, they sometimes forget to or are slow to deactivate FSD before it is sold and the buying dealer assumes the car has it and sells it as such.

 

[Jae001]

FSD is a $15k option when purchased (new) through Tesla but in the resale market, it generally isn't worth anywhere near that much.

If CarMax, Carvana or others are advertising a car as having FSD then buyers need to get that in writing.

There have also been issues when cars actually had it at the time (displayed on screen) but Tesla later removed it during an audit process. When Tesla sells cars at auction, they sometimes forget to or are slow to deactivate FSD before it is sold and the buying dealer assumes the car has it and sells it as such.

That is not good at all! How do you know FSD will be removed after purchase from a dealer? Will Tesla tell you if you have the VIN number?

 

[Tronguy]

My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen.

There was some foo-fer-aw a couple of years back where some buyers got used Teslas with FSD, paid for the privilege (pricing of a used car and all), then Tesla swooped down from on high and removed the package. I don't remember if the car had passed through Tesla or not. But there was talk of fraud with the involuntary removal of a pretty pricey package, the (around a dozen or less?) owners talking to news outlets everywhere, and it was creeping rather rapidly towards the mainstream press. At which point all the victims of the practice had their FSD restored.

After that, Tesla was a lot clearer about the remove-the-FSD business. If they're removing FSD from cars going through CarMax or the like... well, somebody's getting cheated. If CarMax got the car from a private seller, then they presumably paid what the car was worth, including that FSD package. I can't imagine that having an instantaneous removal of $15k by remote control would make CarMax happy, and would engender lawsuits.

 

[Jae001]

My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen.

There was some foo-fer-aw a couple of years back where some buyers got used Teslas with FSD, paid for the privilege (pricing of a used car and all), then Tesla swooped down from on high and removed the package. I don't remember if the car had passed through Tesla or not. But there was talk of fraud with the involuntary removal of a pretty pricey package, the (around a dozen or less?) owners talking to news outlets everywhere, and it was creeping rather rapidly towards the mainstream press. At which point all the victims of the practice had their FSD restored.

After that, Tesla was a lot clearer about the remove-the-FSD business. If they're removing FSD from cars going through CarMax or the like... well, somebody's getting cheated. If CarMax got the car from a private seller, then they presumably paid what the car was worth, including that FSD package. I can't imagine that having an instantaneous removal of $15k by remote control would make CarMax happy, and would engender lawsuits.

Thank you for the info but maybe this is why a lot of dealers do not include FSD in their descriptions of cars or even pictures of the screen. It seems they don't want to put anything in writing regarding FSD and this is also reflected in their pricing as well. Some of these cars should be 10-15K more with FSD but they are not.

 

[CapeOne]

That is not good at all! How do you know FSD will be removed after purchase from a dealer? Will Tesla tell you if you have the VIN number?

You can try asking Tesla but there's no guarantee they will provide a concrete answer.

It would also be a good idea to ask the dealer how they acquired the car e.g., from an auction, as a private party trade-in, etc. If it was a private party trade-in, there's much less chance FSD would be deactivated by Tesla. However, it's still important to have the dealer put in writing that the car has FSD.

 

[Jae001]

You can try asking Tesla but there's no guarantee they will provide a concrete answer.

It would also be a good idea to ask the dealer how they acquired the car e.g., from an auction, as a private party trade-in, etc. If it was a private party trade-in, there's much less chance FSD would be deactivated by Tesla. However, it's still important to have the dealer put in writing that the car has FSD.

Good advice! Thank you.

 

[TRWhit]

My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen.

There was some foo-fer-aw a couple of years back where some buyers got used Teslas with FSD, paid for the privilege (pricing of a used car and all), then Tesla swooped down from on high and removed the package. I don't remember if the car had passed through Tesla or not. But there was talk of fraud with the involuntary removal of a pretty pricey package, the (around a dozen or less?) owners talking to news outlets everywhere, and it was creeping rather rapidly towards the mainstream press. At which point all the victims of the practice had their FSD restored.

After that, Tesla was a lot clearer about the remove-the-FSD business. If they're removing FSD from cars going through CarMax or the like... well, somebody's getting cheated. If CarMax got the car from a private seller, then they presumably paid what the car was worth, including that FSD package. I can't imagine that having an instantaneous removal of $15k by remote control would make CarMax happy, and would engender lawsuits.

I purchased a 2019 M3 in January from Tesla Indianapolis. It was advertised on their website as having FSD and it's included on the sales contract. I will very upset if they deactivate it.

 

[jjrandorin]

I purchased a 2019 M3 in January from Tesla Indianapolis. It was advertised on their website as having FSD and it's included on the sales contract. I will very upset if they deactivate it.

Used teslas sold by tesla are not in scope for the discussion being had. You shouldnt have anything to be concerned about if you purchased it from tesla.

 

[TRWhit]

Used teslas sold by tesla are not in scope for the discussion being had. You shouldnt have anything to be concerned about if you purchased it from tesla.

From the post I quoted: "My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen." For the record I would very surprised if they did deactivate. Why would they?

 

[jjrandorin]

From the post I quoted: "My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen." For the record I would very surprised if they did deactivate. Why would they?

I will repeat what I said which is "used teslas sold by tesla are not in the scope of this discussion" since tesla can add FSD to those cars at will and sell it with FSD themselves.

If you try to buy a used car from tesla that has FSD and say "please take off the FSD and lower the price" they will tell you "No". If someone trades a car into tesla with FSD, they turn around and sell the car again with FSD on it and will not remove it to lower the price. If You trade a car into tesla that has FSD and they sell it to auction, they remove FSD.

If you bought from Tesla, you are fine.

 

[Tronguy]

From the post I quoted: "My understanding is that if a Tesla with FSD goes through Tesla's hands, then they generally de-install the FSD package. If the car is at CarMax or some non-Tesla dealer somewhere, then that doesn't happen." For the record I would very surprised if they did deactivate. Why would they?

Look: If Tesla buys a secondhand Tesla from somebody, once it’s their car, they can do anything they darn well please with it. Paint it with purple polka dots? Sell it with a birthday cake in the trunk? Put software on, take software off? Sure, why not? So long as when they sell it the description matches what’s being sold, nobody cares.

Back in the day when every used Tesla going through Tesla’s hands was getting its FSD removed, by Tesla, I thought that was more than a little weird, myself. I mean, pay some person the value of the car with FSD, give them the money, then reduce the value by taking FSD off, then selling it without FSD? Strange. But they could do what the want: When the car is in their possession, it’s their car.

So, if they’ve re-thought that process: Sure, why not? It’s their car. In fact, if they want to take a non-FSD car, put FSD on it, and sell the car for more money.. well, if there’s a market for cars with FSD and they can get $15k more by doing a software upgrade, sure, no problem.

The original problem I cited was because some buyers found cars with FSD, paid what they paid, getting whatever deal they thought they were getting, and then Tesla remotely removed FSD. Had I been one of those buyers, I would have been pissed, too. And, yeah, Tesla should have made those buyers whole, immediately. But it took a week or two of screaming before, presumably, some management types with clout smacked their own foreheads and got the problem fixed.

So, it’s known that Tesla goofed at least once, rather spectacularly, on this subject. One would think that they wouldn’t do it twice. But a poster just before me implied that Tesla was still removing FSD remotely, and I disagreed with that, and so responded with a bit more accurate story. Again, emphasizing that Tesla’s not doing that.

 

[CapeOne]

For the record I would very surprised if they did deactivate. Why would they?

Some have complained that Tesla offers very little for FSD on trade-ins which, if true, means they have very little invested in it. The resale value for FSD in general is pretty low anyway. When Tesla sells the car at auction, they will deactivate it in the hopes that a new buyer will decide to buy FSD, in full or as a subscription, which can mean greater revenue/profits for Tesla.

 

[kennykustom]

So what's the answer?
What's the chances this unit I'm looking at actually has FSD ?

 

[ewoodrick]

Used teslas sold by tesla are not in scope for the discussion being had. You shouldnt have anything to be concerned about if you purchased it from tesla.

But you may be missing a point. Tesla doesn't sell the majority of the cars that it accepts on trade-ins, they sell them to a reseller (auction house). And it may end up at a normal dealer is the one that buys it from the reseller.
And quite often, all of the cars that you see on a dealer's lot are from resellers, dealers also tend to sell everything that they get to resellers as well. (yes it sounds pretty stupid)

Since it went through Tesla's hands.......

But for a completely private sell, FSD will not get removed.

 

[jjrandorin]

But you may be missing a point. Tesla doesn't sell the majority of the cars that it accepts on trade-ins, they sell them to a reseller (auction house). And it may end up at a normal dealer is the one that buys it from the reseller.
And quite often, all of the cars that you see on a dealer's lot are from resellers, dealers also tend to sell everything that they get to resellers as well. (yes it sounds pretty stupid)

Since it went through Tesla's hands.......

But for a completely private sell, FSD will not get removed.

No, I am not missing any point. My comment was directed specifically at, and only in reference to, the specific post that I quoted which was, for reference:

I purchased a 2019 M3 in January from Tesla Indianapolis. It was advertised on their website as having FSD and it's included on the sales contract. I will very upset if they deactivate it.

I said:

Used teslas sold by tesla are not in scope for the discussion being had

For @TRWhit , a used tesla from Tesla is not in scope for the discussion of "FSD being removed or not on used teslas".

 

[Jae001]

This is all very frustrating as dealers in Los Angeles have the best prices on used Teslas as they have no clue what FSD is worth. Private party sales are still high as people have not realized you can get a new one for less than what they want for their used car. Especially now that there is a $7,500 Federal rebate and CA just added a $2,000 rebate. It looks like private party or buying it from Tesla is the only way to be sure you get FSD and it stays.

 

[mray7000]

I bought my Model X from Carmax April 2022.

I confirmed by checking the center screen that the car had FSD capability.

I had to enter the queue and deal with Safety Score, and I kept my Safety Score above 95 from April 2022 to Dec. 2022- but I didn't get FSD until they released it to everyone. Then I got it, regardless of the stupid Safety Score. I always had Autopilot with navigate.

Now- with this recent recall, my FSD is gone! I seem to be "back in the queue" but no Safety Score. I'm hoping when they release the OTA update for the recall- that I get it back. I have that question.

FSD stays with the car- NOT THE DRIVER, so if you had FSD on a previous Tesla, and bought new Tesla- it doesn't transfer- you had to start all over again with the Safety Score- last year. Happened to a friend of mine. If you bought the care used, like me, FSD was with the car- but you had to start over with the Safety Score.

 

[ewoodrick]

No, I am not missing any point. My comment was directed specifically at, and only in reference to, the specific post that I quoted which was, for reference:


I said:



For @TRWhit , a used tesla from Tesla is not in scope for the discussion of "FSD being removed or not on used teslas".

So why weren't you upset when the poster that you referenced went off-scope from the original post by Jae001?

My point was a CLARIFICATION to TRWhit (who somehow assumed that this thread was about his issue) that the post was different and that how a car bought from Tesla, a car bought from a dealer (car acquired from Tesla) and a car from a dealer (car acquired from end-user) were different cases.

But seeing that you had to chastise MULTIPLE people, we must all be wrong and you are right? Sorry you must have been having a rough day.