Great Car - Crappy Company

[caskater47]

OK, so where are they? Show me one...just ONE electric vehicle that is being manufactured today at volume for the same price, with similar features, with a charging network, that is even in the same ballpark with the Model 3 in terms of sales? Look, I get what you're saying...sort of. However, Tesla is far, far from a crappy company. They are a fantastic company that is being run differently from the norm, no doubt. I just got an update to my car that is amazing. Do you think any other company would have thought to be able to do that the way they run things? No, they wouldn't. Would they have thought to look into alternate forms of propulsion the way they run their companies? No, not in any serious way. Tesla's impulsive nature is one of the things that has led them to where they are. Yes, it causes headaches from time to time, but we all knew what we were getting into.

Dan

Nobody is arguing that there exists a true competitor to Tesla in the EV market right now. But dismissing any comparison of Tesla to other markets and industries isnt helpful either. The EV industry isn't so special that it's beyond comparison. So the foundation of your argument isn't entirely logical.

We are also going to have to simply agree to disagree that Tesla is a good company, let alone fantastic. Let's agree that Tesla is a good innovator but a company is a lot more than the technology it creates. The measure of a great company is measured in how they treat their employees their customers, how they act as a corporate citizen to the country and rest of the world.

If you take those items into account Tesla leaves a lot to be desired. They build proprietary technology and refuse to allow third parties to access their tools and data to allow for third party or self repair and service of the cars. They refuse to engage in any current or evolving EV standards. They treat customers as unimportant and expendable at their best as evidenced by the many horror stories on TMC and beyond. They create mass panic among their employees such as in the whiplash of closing their stores, downsizing, upsizing their workforce. They create massive market instability with Musk’s SEC tweets, price adjustements and stock fluctuations. Musk likes to taunt and ridicule anyone he likes just as a bully does.

No Tesla isn't a fantastic company by any definition of the word but they do have great tech. Companies like Tesla tend to implode before long. I hope for all our sake that doesnt happen and instead they (and especially Musk) learn to grow up.

 

[Big Earl]

That's the WHOLE FREAKING POINT... There is no equivalent competition right now... We all know and recognize this. The point is that once there is, and make no mistake there absolutely will be, Tesla will die a quick and abrupt death.

Jeff

Join the Mark Spiegel TSLAQ cult and short the stock. It's practically guaranteed money, right?

 

[jeffro01]

Join the Mark Spiegel TSLAQ cult and short the stock. It's practically guaranteed money, right?

I don't believe in shorting stock so I don't do it... It's an ethical thing for me personally...

Jeff

 

[Matt L]

That's the thing though. You may not mind it but the public at large is highly resistent to change and the kind of erratic behavior Tesla exhibits, whether good or bad, is what will prevent them from becoming a truly mainstream company

Most people don’t follow Tesla enough to see these changes. Just because they are discussed ad nauseam here doesn’t mean they are general knowledge.

 

[caskater47]

Most people don’t follow Tesla enough to see these changes. Just because they are discussed ad nauseam here doesn’t mean they are general knowledge.

True but the more popular they get and the more cars they sell to the general public will increase that visibilty and more people will notice.

 

[Darren Donovan]

I think the title says it all. Thank god the car is good or Tesla would have been dust long ago.

If only Elon would put his ego aside and put someone in place to run the company in a competent manner and let him focus on product innovation.

Agreed!
Getting to the top is easier than staying at the top.

 

[Tribaltech]

I think the title says it all. Thank god the car is good or Tesla would have been dust long ago.

If only Elon would put his ego aside and put someone in place to run the company in a competent manner and let him focus on product innovation.

I agree whole heartedly. It’s a great car albeit with some major QC issues. But man it’s becoming hard to stand Elon Musk. He seems to act in an increasingly douchy way more often than not. Mouthing off things or writing garbage on twitter trying to be cool and then getting fined or backtracking things.

Or like you wrote announcing crap like price changes and full self driving without anything fully vetted out. It just gives the media and the legacy menufavtuers more fodder to talk crap against Tesla and convince the ones on the fence that it’s not a good car to buy because of how erratic the company is.

 

[Taxdodger]

I think the title says it all. Thank god the car is good or Tesla would have been dust long ago.

If only Elon would put his ego aside and put someone in place to run the company in a competent manner and let him focus on product innovation.

I’m not fond of the idea of ever owning another car made by a “normal” car company. If that means to you that Tesla is abnormal then so be it. I purchased my Model S in late 2017 (ordered in September and took delivery in November). Through my many years (75+) I have purchased over 20 new vehicles from verious manufacturers both foreign and domestic. During my 40-year career I averaged over 50,000 miles per year traveling the US highways and navigating US cities. During that career I have owned several cars that stand out as pleasurable experiences. None of the companies I dealt with can be described as pleasurable experiences. In fact, at the customer level each failed miserably at capturing my loyalty as a buyer. That is until Tesla. My experience in the 18 months Ive been a Tesla owner My experience as a customer has been so superior to any other that I can shout loudly “Tesla - where have you been”. What happens in the board room may frustrate you but what happens where Tesla meets the customer is clearly superior to all others.

 

[Daveman]

Do I sound upset? I am not upset. I just think the company is almost comical in the way it handles itself. It seems like Elon, just say -"Hey lets do this!" and then they say they are doing it without actually thinking things through. He does not seem like a competent CEO as this stage of the game. This is not unusaul as the skills and temperament required to start a company like this and build it are the not the same as what it take to run a Public company.

I agree. But I don't think Tesla will fail due to competition. The market opportunity is way big enough for all players. If Tesla fails, it will be entirely because of their own poor execution.

I was at an electric truck conference recently. When a presenter mentioned the Tesla Semi in the context of 'if Musks antics don't get in the way of it being built', it got lots of laughs.

These days, Musk is easy fodder for those wanting to portray Tesla negatively.

 

[gademy]

I think the title says it all. Thank god the car is good or Tesla would have been dust long ago.

If only Elon would put his ego aside and put someone in place to run the company in a competent manner and let him focus on product innovation.

I agree 100%

 

[Singuy]

The fanboy'ism here is a bit over the top... I used to be all in on Tesla until they directly lied to me and screwed me out of $1k on my lease swap. As I tell people now, "Great cars, corrupt and incompetent company". There are a ton of examples on TMC of just how god awful Tesla is as a business... The evidence is literally everywhere... Incompetent employees, corrupt employees, a completely disorganized and discombobulated business model... One week, no retail stores, next week, retail stores are back but everyones price is going up to keep them... I mean seriously, who in the hell does that? Elon may be an innovator, a visionary, but he royally sucks at running a car company.

The moment a real, actual, competitor emerges Tesla is done. The damage they've done to their existing customer base is monumental and hasn't bit them yet because there's literally no place for someone like me to go. When that changes, I'm gone. This company couldn't walk and think about chewing gum at the same time, much less actually do it.

Jeff

You are right. Only 92% of the customers are satisfied and will buy a Tesla again. Surely the 8% will bankrupt the company.

Here we go again using a few anecdotal evidence to lable the progress and status of a company. It's kind of how Trump governs the US. Screw national statistics, "I've seen movie with Muslims crossing the border of Mexico so must be true."


So what are you exactly using as a measurement stick to call Tesla a fail company? Must be all the hundreds of successful American car companies that popped up the last century for you to compare Tesla's progress right?

 

[Mod3forMe]

You are right. Only 92% of the customers are satisfied and will buy a Tesla again. Surely the 8% will bankrupt the company.

Here we go again using a few anecdotal evidence to lable the progress and status of a company. It's kind of how Trump governs the US. Screw national statistics, "I've seen movie with Muslims crossing the border of Mexico so must be true."


So what are you exactly using as a measurement stick to call Tesla a fail company? Must be all the hundreds of successful American car companies that popped up the last century for you to compare Tesla's progress right?

I do think there is middle ground between you two. Tesla has enjoyed relatively little competition in the niche they carved out for themselves. Now that the market has been proven, you see loads of competitors on the horizon. Right now their product is strong enough and different enough for them to survive despite some very questionable management decisions. The day is coming when they have computers with equavilent products on the market. When they say comes management of the companies will determine the winner and losers.

Can Tesla evolve and mature? For sure it can and in my view it must in order to survive.

 

[Ace111]

"Happens all the time. Plenty of companies have had a great product but could not run the company well enough to capitalize on it. Tesla only survives right now because the product they brought to market is superior, but their competitors will catch up soon and once they do, if Tesla does not get handle one running the business they will fail.
I'm sorry, but the competitors are the ones who can't get their acts together. Short sellers have been screaming "the competition is going to catch up, and when they do..." for the better part of a decade. Meanwhile, Tesla continues to advance its lead, continually improve its existing products and roll out new ones."

The big kicker for all johnny-come-lately's is they have yet to establish a network of charging stations like Tesla has done. Until this takes place, most new e-cars will be confined to local areas for the next 5 or so years. Discussion on this subject is hard to find anywhere from the other manufacturers and yet it is crucial for their survival in the e-car market. Tesla with all their troubles etc. etc. were outstanding in their fore site to recognize this need and to have done something about it.

 

[Mod3forMe]

"Happens all the time. Plenty of companies have had a great product but could not run the company well enough to capitalize on it. Tesla only survives right now because the product they brought to market is superior, but their competitors will catch up soon and once they do, if Tesla does not get handle one running the business they will fail.
I'm sorry, but the competitors are the ones who can't get their acts together. Short sellers have been screaming "the competition is going to catch up, and when they do..." for the better part of a decade. Meanwhile, Tesla continues to advance its lead, continually improve its existing products and roll out new ones."

The big kicker for all johnny-come-lately's is they have yet to establish a network of charging stations like Tesla has done. Until this takes place, most new e-cars will be confined to local areas for the next 5 or so years. Discussion on this subject is hard to find anywhere from the other manufacturers and yet it is crucial for their survival in the e-car market. Tesla with all their troubles etc. etc. were outstanding in their fore site to recognize this need and to have done something about it.

I agree the supercharging network is the big advantage Tesla has (for now). Funny enough, that network encouraged me to buy my first EV as a Tesla, but I know I won't care about it on my next one. I learned fast that an EV, even with supercharging does not suit the way I like to take a road trip and for 99% if my driving I don't need supercharging.

I agree a long term shift to driving EV will need more fast charging solutions. The thing the barrier to entry in this market is not huge and someone will take it on, likely with a solution for everyone that can be licensed, much like we see happening with autonomous driving.Other charging solution that are coming forward are not exclusive to one manufactures car. I can't imagine we will end up long term with EV charging networks that are only for one companies car. Also Tesla has talked about and apparently tried to get other auto manufactures signed on to the Supercharging network. Maybe one day, Telsa is JUST a charging company.

I could see Tesla potentially going the way of Betamax. Beta was better technology first to market, but VHS ended up getting wider adoption.

 

[Paul S]

I think the title says it all. Thank god the car is good or Tesla would have been dust long ago.

If only Elon would put his ego aside and put someone in place to run the company in a competent manner and let him focus on product innovation.

I would have to agree. I have a 2014 S and a 2017 S, both great cars. However, I have sold all my shares in the company because Elon is a terrible business manager. He has managed to alienate all his employees, even those who were devoted to the Tesla mission. Impossible performance metrics, random firings, a nonsensical business plan (build lots of hi end boutiques - no close them all - no wait, let’s change again!) The most aggregious is his personal conduct - running his mouth while the employees are under no disclosure rules. Smoking dope - an offense that would get his employees fired.
Elon is a visionary when it comes to innovation - but he has no idea how to lead people. Elon himself once admitted that “people are highly under rated.”
Tesla will become a great company ONLY if they get a visionary with some leadership skills.

 

[electronblue]

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy (I have the PSD Stealth so am definitely on the short end of the stick) I don’t see the issues unless you are talking about unless you mean pricing changes. But I don’t have a problem with it. I paid what I was comfortable with and got what I wanted.

Edit: unless I’m missing something and it isnt pricing.

As a Model 3 owner you lack the history Model S/X owners have that may feel differently about the company overall.

I sympathize with the OP.