How can we improve the investor section of this forum ?

[Gerardf]

Hi all,

Over the years I have learned a lot on the investors section of the TMC forum. There are a lot of very intelligent, capable, experienced and successful people here who do not hesitate to share the results of their hard work and analysis for free with us all, so we can all learn and profit from it. I am very greatful for that.

As some might have noticed in the two main investor threads I have been away for while and was quite shocked reading up on the last 10-ish pages of posts.

While there are still very high quality threads like those from DaveT and Papafox these two main investment threads IMHO have become slowchat channel and fightclub. And we need these two hreads. These are essential to be on top of market action, latest news that impacts the shareprice and to have other more general investor related discussions.

It makes me sad to see how high quality posts by well respected 'older' posters and very bright new ones drown in a flood of off-topic posts. I also miss quite a few very familiar names, so I fear even more well known posters must have left this forum.

IMHO there are two causes for this :
- To many posts in the wrong threads
- To much noise and discussions going off-track

Maybe it is not clear for newer posters what belongs in what thread. That should be easy to clear up, and then needs some maintaining by all of us to remind people in a respectful way to post in the correct threads should discussion get off-track.

I can't help noticing however that very much of the noise and derailing of discussions is caused by a limited number of people, and only in few cases by people who mean well but simply get too enthusiastic.

It has for a longer time been my opinion that the investor forum should be much less forgiving to shorts / bears who simply come here to ' have same fun' with us Tesla owners and investors.

Not only do they derail good discussion, the also annoy people and are far less classy, not to say that many have a total lack of respect toward investors, Tesla, Elon, Tesla fans and their fellow posters in general.

IMHO the two main investors threads are running the risk to see even more of the SeekingAlpha and Twitter trolls to come over. We have all seen how they derail discussions by bringing up refuted things again and again and / by annoying and exhausting positive posters. More of that would not only derail the discussions even further, but we will lose even more of our highly respected posters.

And, to make things worse, we risk this infesting the other threads as well.

I would like to think that this is not what the big, big majority here wants.

Thus I would like to call upon the TMC owners and the moderators to act. Note that I do not blame the moderators, I have a lot of respect for them, and I would not be able to do what they do. And I have to assume their actions are limited by some TMC guidelines. If so, TMC owners, please protect this forum and act!


Should that not be happening, I feel we all should better self moderate the investor forum towards how we would like the forum to be.

My suggestions :

- A clear purpose of the main investor threads should be put up in a "Sticky Thread" for all (new) posters in this forum section to read, and by that commit to.

- Shorts / bears who derail a discussion should be warned....ONCE. After that they should be blocked from posting in any of the investor threads except a new "Bear-discussion-points thread"

- No more hidden profiles. I know I can partly circumvent using search, but hidden profiles are nonsense and should not be allowed when posting in the investor threads.

- Members who post in the investor threads and a regular publishers of articles on other investor websites / forums MUST clearly state this in their signature that is visible below each post. Breaking this rule can only have one repercussion ----> permanent ban.

To harsh ? Well, we hall know posters bringing forward bearish views in a classy and respectful way and thus enriching the conversations. They have always gotten a warm welcome on this investor forum.

Many seem to agree with me that we have been way to nice to people who do not mean well to Tesla.

For spreading FUD, insulting Tesla, Elon, Tesla owners and annoying Tesla longs there is already another forum website where they can enjoy their bashing and praise their bear-cult leaders. We have no room for such posters here. We do not have to feel guilty to prevent the minority who do not mean well to Tesla and its investors to post here.


That all seems biased, but after all this IS a Tesla owner, Tesla fans & Investor forum. Not an anything-goes-forum. IMHO this forum IS supposed to be biased. And I am confident > 99% here want Tesla to prosper and share its mission "to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy".


Just my 2 cents,


Gerard.

 

[Toolsmack]

I agree on a number of points and I was 80% done drafting a new post today explaining that I have decided to throw violent disagrees at any post not ‘market action’ posted in the market action thread. I deleted the post because I didn’t think it mattered enough to have its own post.

I apologize to those posters that I actually like reading. Some of you are funny and insightful, but if we want a market action thread we need to limit it to market action.

 

[Unpilot]

It seems there should be a easy way to direct the usual bear or troll approach to a sticky that refutes whatever new/rehashed news they bring.

If they bring new info that is not know then welocome... if it's the same old stuff bang..sticky..then if that does not work the ban hammer.

 

[Gerardf]

It seems there should be a easy way to direct the usual bear or troll approach to a sticky that refutes whatever new/rehashed news they bring.

If they bring new info that is not know then welocome... if it's the same old stuff bang..sticky..then if that does not work the ban hammer.

Hi, yes. Fully agree !

That should be easy, but some time ago I tried, and I know others have.

Problem is that many bears are trolls, wishing to irritate is ans derail good discussions. They will not go to a bear thread unless forced / banned to.
Maybe we should simply create a thread and request support from moderators to move posts withe those typical derailing bearish question to it.

 

[Sudre]

My idea would be to remove the "helpful" button and replace it with "Off Topic".

After a long day at work I have no time to read through the Market Action's 10-20 pages of babble. With an off topic button I can come home and quickly pass up the off topic posts. As it stands now I don't even get time to respond to posts because it take so long to catch up on busy days. I end up just disagreeing with the on topic post and moving on.

Also the mods could easily just move all marked off topic posts with say 5 or more votes to one thread called "The Weeds". Maybe if people started getting their posts thrown to the weeds they would learn to stay on topic. Heck could it be automated? Then the Mods would only have to fix the few that get trolled.

 

[Ocelot]

I agree with staying on topic.
I think the threads need different names.
I completely disagree with banning bears. That would make this a (worse) echo chamber.
Limit people to two posts per day per thread.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

People just use Market Action for general discussion now. It's not clear what General Discussion is used for.

There needs to be direct enforcement of only talking about market action in Market Action. Most of the posts in Market Action on any given day actually should be in General Discussion.

 

[tander]

I would suggest maybe posting the forum rules once a week or as needed in the threads that need it most. Or maybe have a condensed version that's just always on it or something. Great title for this thread btw.

 

[Zhelko Dimic]

Hi, yes. Fully agree !

That should be easy, but some time ago I tried, and I know others have.

Problem is that many bears are trolls, wishing to irritate is ans derail good discussions. They will not go to a bear thread unless forced / banned to.
Maybe we should simply create a thread and request support from moderators to move posts withe those typical derailing bearish question to it.

I disagree with description of the problem.
In my eyes, off topic discussions, Tesla religious zelots (cheerleaders), and lack of critical thinking are much bigger problems that few bears.

If you want to ban bears, you want an echo chamber. If we suppress any criticism of Tesla, I don't see how can we have good discussions? What I mean is that I know all the potential that Tesla has, and have known it for years. Don't we all? I don't remember reading any new positive theory about Tesla (in the last 18 months) that was new and surprising to me. I've already heard it. For the last three years, I've been thinking that Tesla will obliterate rest of car industry. And since I'm over 100% in TSLA, I want to be aware of any potential risk, so I actively seek cautious opinions, to see if there is angle I haven't seen yet. Mine seems to be minority view, but from private conversations, I know that some of the most respected members have pulled back because of the lack of critical thinking, not because of bears.

And when I get bunch of disagreements on this post, you'll know why I'm about to stop contributing (whether you've appreciated it or not). Though I toned down post before publishing, so I may get off easy

 

[geneclean55]

I think people threatening to block and/or threatening to stop contributing could give it a second thought. It's an internet forum and people might care less than you think

 

[jhm]

I don't remember reading any new positive theory about Tesla (in the last 18 months) that was new and surprising to me. I've already heard it.

You didn't read my post this morning. I offered a new theory on how Tesla seems to be moving to create more network value as it shifts from an automaker model to transport as service model. At least to me, it seems fairly novel and explains the shift from cash burn to cash flow. I'm afraid, however, the post was mostly overlooked.

Actually, a better strategy for me has been to set up new threads to delve into particular topics. In the main threads, useful discussion too easily gets lost.

One suggestion we may want to consider is to stop privileging certain threads as sticky threads. The thinking here is that making them sticky threads sets them apart as the main threads. Trolls that want to disrupt will be attracted to this because it is where they can get the biggest audience. It also encourages people to put stuff there in lieu of finding a more appropriate thread or setting up a new thread for it. So I'd like to see people participate more in the non-sticky threads and avoid setting up a mainstage for disruptors to try to take over.

 

[Zhelko Dimic]

I disagree with description of the problem.
In my eyes, off topic discussions, Tesla religious zelots (cheerleaders), and lack of critical thinking are much bigger problems that few bears.

If you want to ban bears, you want an echo chamber. If we suppress any criticism of Tesla, I don't see how can we have good discussions? What I mean is that I know all the potential that Tesla has, and have known it for years. Don't we all? I don't remember reading any new positive theory about Tesla (in the last 18 months) that was new and surprising to me. I've already heard it. For the last three years, I've been thinking that Tesla will obliterate rest of car industry. And since I'm over 100% in TSLA, I want to be aware of any potential risk, so I actively seek cautious opinions, to see if there is angle I haven't seen yet. Mine seems to be minority view, but from private conversations, I know that some of the most respected members have pulled back because of the lack of critical thinking, not because of bears.

And when I get bunch of disagreements on this post, you'll know why I'm about to stop contributing (whether you've appreciated it or not). Though I toned down post before publishing, so I may get off easy

This? TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

I love your posts. They're often novel in terms of thinking about financial models and ways to look long term. This is a good post, but nothing surprising or too original for me. I don't mean it as an offence, all of your suggestions seem possible. Part of my thesis is that Tesla will continue moving to adjacent markets and is cooking bunch of stuff in the Lab we have no clue about (like recent AI chip).

About two (maybe even 3) year ago, I postulated that because of Musk's values and Tesla attitude, and number of industries they're shooting at, I can see them as a first company that has a shot at 10B capitalization in 10-20 years. Not a certainty, but a chance. People were mostly laughing because 10B seemed as an impossible number for any one company, but it already looks less impossible for _someone_ And people always overestimate impact of technology (or growth) in the short term and underestimate it long term. I give it a bit less chance now, because I'm concerned about Musk's health long term - lots of geniuses have fizzled out, including Tesla and Edison... Mixed messages, I know...

 

[N5329K]

"And when I get bunch of disagreements on this post, you'll know why I'm about to stop contributing (whether you've appreciated it or not). Though I toned down post before publishing, so I may get off easy "

A wise gentleman I knew once said "you aren't cutting any wake unless someone is disagreeing with you."
Only he said it in a much saltier fashion.
Don't worry about it.
Robin

 

[Chickenlittle]

Burn it down

 

[kcveins]

This? TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

I love your posts. They're often novel in terms of thinking about financial models and ways to look long term. This is a good post, but nothing surprising or too original for me. I don't mean it as an offence, all of your suggestions seem possible. Part of my thesis is that Tesla will continue moving to adjacent markets and is cooking bunch of stuff in the Lab we have no clue about (like recent AI chip).

About two (maybe even 3) year ago, I postulated that because of Musk's values and Tesla attitude, and number of industries they're shooting at, I can see them as a first company that has a shot at 10B capitalization in 10-20 years. Not a certainty, but a chance. People were mostly laughing because 10B seemed as an impossible number for any one company, but it already looks less impossible for _someone_ And people always overestimate impact of technology (or growth) in the short term and underestimate it long term. I give it a bit less chance now, because I'm concerned about Musk's health long term - lots of geniuses have fizzled out, including Tesla and Edison... Mixed messages, I know...

Did you mean 10 trillion?

 

[Zhelko Dimic]

Did you mean 10 trillion?

Yes, apologies

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

The only thread I check is the main investor roundtable thing, and 95% of the posts are pointless trash, or belong in dedicated threads. Snarky comments, or jokes, or memes.
Every time the SP goes up, people post loads of 'hilarious' youtube videos of marching bands. We get technical analysis charts every day even though they could be in a separate thread. We get US-specific posts about tax planning and retirement.... again, go to a dedicated thread.
We either need more heavy handed moderation, or a post limit per day.
People who want to posts memes should take it to reddit.

 

[JonECat]

It would be great to see a 6 month earnings/stock/etc. charts for Tesla and related (SpaceX) companies. Possibly even a multi year chart for perspective.
If people who have hard facts on Supply Chain, Tesla Initiatives, Competitive gains/losses (new tech, etc.) that would be useful.

 

[Beltsbear]

Hi all,

Over the years I have learned a lot on the investors section of the TMC forum. There are a lot of very intelligent, capable, experienced and successful people here who do not hesitate to share the results of their hard work and analysis for free with us all, so we can all learn and profit from it. I am very greatful for that.

As some might have noticed in the two main investor threads I have been away for while and was quite shocked reading up on the last 10-ish pages of posts.

While there are still very high quality threads like those from DaveT and Papafox these two main investment threads IMHO have become slowchat channel and fightclub. And we need these two hreads. These are essential to be on top of market action, latest news that impacts the shareprice and to have other more general investor related discussions.

It makes me sad to see how high quality posts by well respected 'older' posters and very bright new ones drown in a flood of off-topic posts. I also miss quite a few very familiar names, so I fear even more well known posters must have left this forum.

IMHO there are two causes for this :
- To many posts in the wrong threads
- To much noise and discussions going off-track

I don't agree. It is something that will make me lose the popularity contest and get a bunch of disagrees (or worse) but, the main problem has been the loss of some of the very high quality content providers. That being said, there are still amazing people on the forum providing valuable content. But at least three of the best posters have left. They did not leave because because of off topic conversations. They did not leave because of other controversial users or conflicts. They left because of moderation.

Being a moderator is hard and unpaid. I know that. They have to make decisions about content. But the working to stop off topic conversations has caused content of these high quality posters to be deleted. Some of them also had temporary restrictions on them. Also entire topics were banned. While this is not the heaviest moderation I have seen on a message board, it is very much heavy handed. (sorry mods, I know you are human, and there are more then one of you, which makes these decisions that much harder)

So these high quality posters left. So would the board be a better place with less moderation, more off topic but their high quality posts as well??? Personally I think it would be better WITH them. And let me use the ignore filter and my own brain to sort things. Still TMC remains a valuable resource of important information and enlightened viewpoints.

 

[bballshinobi]

Create a secret thread that's titled under something totally unrelated to investing. For example, the Teslaquila thread.

Hold high level investor discussion there instead of the round table thread.