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Is this a 10-30 outlet?
- Thread starter Bizzy511
- Start date
Not sure if any of this would help, but I took some more photos. In one of the photos you'll see 2 called wires. One red and one black. They are not connected. I think I would need to buy a 30amp breaker then hook up the 2 wires. There's also a white wire that's connected to the ground bar.
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RayK
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@Bizzy511 Note that your 10-30 outlet looks quite, ah, ancient. I have one being used for a dryer and it probably came with the house (1970). You might want to swap it out with something more modern if you intend to use it for charging. A quality outlet like Hubbell instead of a residential one like Leviton would be preferable.
Also, if the breaker panel is correctly labelled, the "dryer" breaker appears to have a knicked wire on the left side. You might want to look at that.
Also, if the breaker panel is correctly labelled, the "dryer" breaker appears to have a knicked wire on the left side. You might want to look at that.
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Okay I will try to replace the outlet. The outlet is just the type of prong setup right? Like I don't need to rewire the house, just replace the outlet? Also, the one labeled dryer is actually being used for something else. An electrician came about a year ago and did some wiring and attached the compressor for the air conditioner to the one labeled "dryer". The electrician de-tached the red and black wire, and put in new wires. I was planning to add a 30 amp breaker and attach the red and black wires to it. I hope that makes sense.
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RayK
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Outlet replacement of the same type will require no other changes to wiring or breaker (see next paragraph).
So the two wires attached to the 10-30 outlet are terminated with the yellow wire nuts inside your panel at the top? If yes, AND those wires are at least 10AWG (smaller number is better so 8AWG is better but thicker) AND there's space in the panel to install a dual pole (240V) breaker, then that should be all that's needed. You may want to consult an electrician to determine if your panel can support the continuous 24A that charging will require; that is, do a load calculation.
So the two wires attached to the 10-30 outlet are terminated with the yellow wire nuts inside your panel at the top? If yes, AND those wires are at least 10AWG (smaller number is better so 8AWG is better but thicker) AND there's space in the panel to install a dual pole (240V) breaker, then that should be all that's needed. You may want to consult an electrician to determine if your panel can support the continuous 24A that charging will require; that is, do a load calculation.
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It's probably safe to use the wiring. The outlet? It looks very old. Old outlets can sometimes get loose wires so make sure those screws are in there tight, and that the wires haven't started to overheat at the ends (once this happens, the wires get even hotter as more material "burns off" and eventually the outlet will melt). Now of course, if you are using the modern Tesla Gen3 UMC with a 10-30 plug, all of those plugs have thermal sensors in them which reduces the risk somewhat. By the way, I am guessing that you do not use this outlet for a dryer because you definitely don't want to be swapping plugs on a 10-30 outlet frequently.
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Yes that's correct . The 2 wires are terminated with the yellow caps. Thanks, I'll look into it and make sure it can handle continuous 24a load.
My other option is to use a normal 110/120 outlet, and I understand it's a slow charge. Work is 13 miles away, so 26 miles round trip. I would also add a few miles for when I go to get lunch, so I would need about 30 miles a day.
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120V is grotesquely inefficient. Since the car keeps the computers active whenever it's charging, the lower the charge power, the higher the overhead. And at 120V, the overhead is around 20-30%.
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RayK
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@Bizzy511 Looking at your electric panel some more, it appears like your first and third 2-pole (240V) breakers at the top are currently unused, correct? If yes, and neither of them are 30A, you can replace one of those and connect the red and black wires there. The wires don't look long enough to reach the bottom of the breakers. I had to Google around to find out your breakers seem to be Pushmatic designs. I'm not familiar with these but it looks like they are still available from many sources.
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davewill
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When you put in your new outlet, do yourself a favor and mount it with the ground/neutral wire on top like in the picture below. It's a shame that Tesla still doesn't have an adapter for 6-30. It would make a lot of sense, otherwise, for you to substitute that 10-30 with a 6-30, Same three wires, but the 6-30 is hot-hot-ground rather than hot-hot-neutral. If there is a separate ground wire in the outlet box (4 wires instead of 3...I don't see one in your photo), I would encourage you to do a 14-30 instead, but there probably isn't.
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our washer and dryer uses a 120 outlet. The 10-30 would strictly be for charging the car. Since the car does not come with any charger I would buy the mobile charger from tesla. Thanks for the advice
Yes that was the plan, and you're right about the wires. They won't reach to the bottom. Thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it.
Thanks Dave, unfortunately there are only 3 wires, with the neutral going to the ground bar inside the box.When you put in your new outlet, do yourself a favor and mount it with the ground/neutral wire on top like in the picture below. It's a shame that Tesla still doesn't have an adapter for 6-30. It would make a lot of sense, otherwise, for you to substitute that 10-30 with a 6-30, Same three wires, but the 6-30 is hot-hot-ground rather than hot-hot-neutral. If there is a separate ground wire in the outlet box (4 wires instead of 3...I don't see one in your photo), I would encourage you to do a 14-30 instead, but there probably isn't.
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Just need to make sure you buy the 10-30 plug for it. This setup should be good until you have to upgrade the panel (at which point I'd probably go to something more modern like a 14-50 or a wall connector). That is the strangest busbar I have ever seen. How old is that panel?
Ground is probably the easiest wire to add because you don't need to go all the way back to the box. If you can easily get a wire to go to a grounding rod and drive the grounding rod into the soil, that can be your ground.
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RayK
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@Bizzy511 On doing some more online research on Pushmatic breakers, I've found some interesting (read: important and possibly dangerous) information about them:
inspectapedia.com
Quote: "However some field reports include a particularly dangerous failure: the breaker may remain ON internally while appearing to have been turned OFF."
Quote: "Also, the breakers use only a thermal breaker design, while modern breakers have both a thermal and magnetic trip mechanism. And there’s more: if these old breakers are not “exercised” occasionally, they became stiff and difficult to trip or reset."
Quote: "The electric demands of today often exceed the design capacity of a Pushmatic panel. Because the parts that are sold as “Pushmatic compatible” aren’t tested or approved for use with these panels, it’s not possible to safely add new circuits to a Pushmatic electrical panel."
It looks like you have an obsolete panel and breakers that you may not be able to find reliable replacements for. I know it would be expensive to replace (upgrade) your entire panel to something modern but please be aware of the risks I've highlighted above. Most importantly, be sure that the electricity is off when the breaker says it's "Off". You can to that by measuring the voltage on the wire attached to the breaker with respect to neutral. Better to be safe than sorry.
Pushmatic Bulldog & ITE Pushmatic Circuit Breakers & Electrical Panel Hazards & Failure Reports
Pushmatic Bulldog Circuit Breaker & Electrical Panel Possible Safety & Operating Concerns
inspectapedia.com
Quote: "Also, the breakers use only a thermal breaker design, while modern breakers have both a thermal and magnetic trip mechanism. And there’s more: if these old breakers are not “exercised” occasionally, they became stiff and difficult to trip or reset."
Quote: "The electric demands of today often exceed the design capacity of a Pushmatic panel. Because the parts that are sold as “Pushmatic compatible” aren’t tested or approved for use with these panels, it’s not possible to safely add new circuits to a Pushmatic electrical panel."
It looks like you have an obsolete panel and breakers that you may not be able to find reliable replacements for. I know it would be expensive to replace (upgrade) your entire panel to something modern but please be aware of the risks I've highlighted above. Most importantly, be sure that the electricity is off when the breaker says it's "Off". You can to that by measuring the voltage on the wire attached to the breaker with respect to neutral. Better to be safe than sorry.
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You might want to opt for a NMEA 14-50 outlet since that is what the new Mobile Connector mates with. While doing that if the wire size permits you could go to a 50 amp breaker to allow 40 amp charging. I installed a Wall Connector with a 50 amp breaker but my car M3 SR+ only allows 32 amp charging. But maybe a LR 3 or Y in the future.
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