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Is this a reasonable Quote for PV?

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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
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NH
I’ve tried several times and still trying with Tesla for a PV system.

Tesla initial estimate is about $35K for a 12.6kw system no onsite visit yet.

The local folks want $45K but they have been to the site and know some of the details.

Half would get installed on a detached garage and other half on the house. I will have to beef up garage roof for an added cost. Both garage and house roof is one rectangle area to cover each.

No batteries.

I have open pre existing conduits between house and garage. Garage is only a few feet away off the corner of the house where service comes in.

New house. New Electrical panel withplenty of space.

So not to hard of an install.

Also it’s an Enphase system with micro inverters. Not sure if that’s a good thing or not. 30 420 watt panels.
 
If you want a Tesla like price then you might want to look at Project Solar (projectsolar.com). Their similar in that they do a lot of work with technology and don't go onsite as rule until the install day. They rely on you doing some of the work like taking pictures. They use Enphase equipment. The installers are generally local companies that they partner with.

Tesla (and Project Solar) in general try not nickel and dime installs. If the install is super simple then they probably do slightly better on their margins. They have certain things that charge extra for but that is usually clear and upfront. Example include a different kind of roof.

A Project Solar quote for a 10 kW system was around $25K but that's from Feb 2023. This is in California.

I've recommended Tesla and Project Solar to friends and family. I've had installs done by both of them. If you are looking for white glove service you will need to look elsewhere. To those friends and family I basically provide a lot the sales support (for example explaining choices)
 
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When I was pricing around, I found that local installers were generally 30%+ higher than Tesla (some ridiculously so). I'm sure there is some additional costs with these other vendors, but I found it odd that they all seemed to be about the same % higher than the federal tax incentive.
For example - Tesla fought with my utility for almost a year before they got their equipment approved. It was bad enough that they stopped using Tesla trucks to install with my utility, and now contract it out (still priced through Tesla's site). As a result, the contractor is about 35% higher than what I contracted with Tesla directly. In my opinion, Tesla really turned the industry on its head by making it far more affordable. I can't say their communication was great, but even with the frustrations, I have a lot more green in my pocket which was worth it.

I think $35k is a little high, but that difference might be because of microinverters. There is some controversy over whether microinverters are worth the extra cost - but - after having Tesla and the limited panel information that is available - I'd say microinverters - in just having the ability to see individual panel output and production - would be worth the extra cost. With mine, I'd have to get up on my roof with a temperature gun or thermal camera to get an idea that each panel is working as it should - if I saw the difference in overall output. Or, if I rebooted my inverters and read the solar MRTT inputs within the first 10 or 15 minutes after boot.
 
When I was pricing around, I found that local installers were generally 30%+ higher than Tesla (some ridiculously so). I'm sure there is some additional costs with these other vendors, but I found it odd that they all seemed to be about the same % higher than the federal tax incentive.
For example - Tesla fought with my utility for almost a year before they got their equipment approved. It was bad enough that they stopped using Tesla trucks to install with my utility, and now contract it out (still priced through Tesla's site). As a result, the contractor is about 35% higher than what I contracted with Tesla directly. In my opinion, Tesla really turned the industry on its head by making it far more affordable. I can't say their communication was great, but even with the frustrations, I have a lot more green in my pocket which was worth it.

I think $35k is a little high, but that difference might be because of microinverters. There is some controversy over whether microinverters are worth the extra cost - but - after having Tesla and the limited panel information that is available - I'd say microinverters - in just having the ability to see individual panel output and production - would be worth the extra cost. With mine, I'd have to get up on my roof with a temperature gun or thermal camera to get an idea that each panel is working as it should - if I saw the difference in overall output. Or, if I rebooted my inverters and read the solar MRTT inputs within the first 10 or 15 minutes after boot.
Tried Project Solar “no installers in your area”

I had a Solar edge system with optimizers (not microinverters) and could get stats on each panel.

Thing O don’t like is more complex hardware in the elements on the roof under the panels. Thing I do like is it’s less single point failure. Lose your inverter with Optimizers and everything goes down. Lose a microinverter and you only lose that one panel. I did lose my Solar Edge Inverter and a few optimizers.

Scaling (adding more panels later) is also easier with Micro inverters.
 
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Micro-inverters didn't used to be that much more and I don't think they are that much more in this case...When I did my install, it was like $1-$2k of a $20k or so project vs. centralized string.


I think if you get a quote without microinverters with someone not called Tesla, maybe it will be $43k, etc...

Tesla wasn't much cheaper than some 3rd parties neither in my case, but you have to do your research and weigh all the pros/cons for your needs.
 
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Yep, my bad. An extra $10k for micro-inverters would be a hard sell IMHO.
The price difference has little to do with micro inverters. It’s Tesla vs the local guys. I’ve had other local quotes that used optimizers that was $52K.

I am curious about micro inverters in general. Regardless of the price. They are more complex. There is Ethernet going to each one. How reliable are they. I am curious how much they cost vs central inverter. Are they more $$$ I would think it would be hard to compete if they were much more money.

Also curious if the $45k is highway robbery or not. For some reason Solar is the most expensive to install in the northeast.

It’s taking Tesla 6 weeks to just get to the initial on-site visit. Instead of uploading your utility bill they now ask for account access so they can get a more accurate picture of usage. I said fine and gave access. It said “success”. Then a week later it says can I upload my utility bill. WTF. They now say the account access thing failed. Do I want these bozo’s putting holes in my roof?

I know the price from Tesla will go up once they have more detailed design. Especially where I want it split between garage and house. Teslas estimates assume (best case to start) one grid on one roof with one inverter to start. How much more I’m not sure.

Also given how slow Tesla is they will probably want to install when there is 2 feet of snow on the roof.
 
I skipped on the microinverters/optimizers and have two SunnyBoy string inverters. The panels get a lot of shade in winter but I still manage to produce a decent amount on sunny days. Just figured the extra hardware would be more things to break, and at a higher cost.
 
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When I was planning out my system, I was originally sold by the theory behind micro-inverters. But, after watching many videos comparing, I realized the extra cost may never pay back. This video was one of the deciding factors.

However, if the cost was only a thousand or two, I'd seriously consider microinverters just for the feedback on each individual panel. That is worth it for a few thousand, but not for five or ten, at least not in my configuration and setup (I don't have much shading issues).
 
The price difference has little to do with micro inverters. It’s Tesla vs the local guys. I’ve had other local quotes that used optimizers that was $52K.

I am curious about micro inverters in general. Regardless of the price. They are more complex. There is Ethernet going to each one. How reliable are they. I am curious how much they cost vs central inverter. Are they more $$$ I would think it would be hard to compete if they were much more money.

Thanks for confirming this. As I've stated here before, it's not the microinverters that are jacking up the price so people need to stop blaming it on that. My real life estimates were more like $1k-$2k on a whole project so it was small for not having another box in the garage and no single point of inverter failure (there can still be other failures though). Warranty is also like 25 years and failure rates of IQ7s were miniscule from what you see installers post about on the solar reddit.

As for your pricing, have you tried energysage? I used to suggest people start getting quotes there and use that as a starting point. I don't work there, don't get nothing since I'm not referring you, etc...I got like 15 quotes from all over when I researched.

In the general is this price ok check, solar used to be as low as $2.25/W - $2.5/W back in 2021, during the NEM rush, it was low to mid $3/W in CA. This is all pre-tax credit.

Your Tesla quote is $2.77/W. Your local guy is $3.57/W. Up to you if you think it's worth it for the service you are getting and the feedback/response/component-tech choice you want. My non-Tesla quotes were a bit over $2.50/W and Tesla was also around $2.50/W as well. It's all area dependent though.
 
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The price difference has little to do with micro inverters. It’s Tesla vs the local guys. I’ve had other local quotes that used optimizers that was $52K.

I am curious about micro inverters in general. Regardless of the price. They are more complex. There is Ethernet going to each one. How reliable are they. I am curious how much they cost vs central inverter. Are they more $$$ I would think it would be hard to compete if they were much more money.

Also curious if the $45k is highway robbery or not. For some reason Solar is the most expensive to install in the northeast.
...
Can we straighten out a few items? There is a lot of misinformation floating around, and not just here.

Microinverters do not have Ethernet running to them. The communications are done through the power line.

Microinverters are almost as complicated as standard inverters as they all have to support the same functions (DC-AC, frequency response, reporting etc.). Being smaller has a number of very real advantages electronically. (No fans for one)

When a microinverter fails, yes, someone does have to get up to the array and swap in a new one.

I'm not going to opine on reliability other than pointing out microinverters typically come with 25 year warranties, in contrast to the typical five to ten year warranties on central inverters. In my book that tells you where the manufacturer is betting, and they have the data.

Depending on your installer, microinverters may be more or less expensive. For our installation they were close to the same price. (+$1k)

For me,
  • the panel level reporting,
  • the ability to keep almost all of my production going in the case of a failure, and
  • the 25 year warranty made having microinverters a no brainer.
I have been around solar for decades and central inverters have historically had short (5-10 year) lifespans. There are valid electronic reasons for it, and the few vendors who built longer lived models have not prevailed. But don't get me wrong, the current generation of central inverters are more reliable. I think that anyone would be wise to expect to replace their central inverter as soon as the warranty expires, I.e. at least once in the lifespan of your panels. That is a cost to get a crew out do the replacement, and pay for the replacement that should be factored into a reasonable ROI calculation.

I would also point out that as frustrating as it is to have your central inverter die during "peak power" solar seasons, and having to wait 30/60/90 days for replacement needs a little perspective in the 20+year life of your system. Now if you are in hurricane alley, or a remote area, or earthquake country where having power is not just a nice to have, I think microinverters are the sensible choice; if you go with a central inverter, I would buy a backup at the same time that you install your system.

Finally, your local factors determine pricing. As @sunwarriors suggested, go to energy sage and get as many quotes as you can face. Just because someone in Antelope valley got a better price actually has no bearing on your particular site. Lots of things drive up price beyond how large or complicated the installation is; the local inspectors/AHJ, town/HOA rules, distance to the office/warehouse, logistics in getting staff and materials on site, subtleties of your particular house/roof, the customer (you), are all factors that affect total cost.

BG
 
For $1k, I'd be all over Microinverters vs strings.

In my situation, I received quotes from two different 'local' installers. They only provided an overall cost, no breakdowns of what each part of the install/hardware would cost. For me, these other installers were 35% more expensive than Tesla (close to $30k more for one, $45k for the second).

The fact they wouldn't break down the costs was enough of a red flag for me to continue my search. I figured some of the cost difference must have been the micro-inverters, and figured $5-10k (yes, guessing gets me nowhere). When Tesla started providing quotes in my area, I was shocked at how much less expensive it was, for a larger system and more battery storage. For me, I can buy a several inverters for $30-45k.

If it is only $1k more, that's a no-brainer. That's a drop in the bucket! Thanks for the clarification.
 
In my situation, I received quotes from two different 'local' installers.

You should've ramped this up by 10+. But yeah, I've had "big name" "local" installers in the $4/W+ pricing too. Some were clueless (sales-rep was just eye candy), CEO gave me wrong info on SGIP, etc...etc, my list can go on and on.

Point is, it's not surprising most installers are more expensive than Tesla, but it's just not 100% true and it's a dis-service to every other installer when it's stated as fact a lot of times here.

A lot of this high pricing may also be due to too much work after local installer takes a look where Tesla didn't even come out yet, 1 battery installs (lots of work) so they jack up the price because the installers simply don't care whether you choose them or not. They don't want your business that badly for no profits.
 
Thanks for confirming this. As I've stated here before, it's not the microinverters that are jacking up the price so people need to stop blaming it on that. My real life estimates were more like $1k-$2k on a whole project so it was small for not having another box in the garage and no single point of inverter failure (there can still be other failures though). Warranty is also like 25 years and failure rates of IQ7s were miniscule from what you see installers post about on the solar reddit.

As for your pricing, have you tried energysage? I used to suggest people start getting quotes there and use that as a starting point. I don't work there, don't get nothing since I'm not referring you, etc...I got like 15 quotes from all over when I researched.

In the general is this price ok check, solar used to be as low as $2.25/W - $2.5/W back in 2021, during the NEM rush, it was low to mid $3/W in CA. This is all pre-tax credit.

Your Tesla quote is $2.77/W. Your local guy is $3.57/W. Up to you if you think it's worth it for the service you are getting and the feedback/response/component-tech choice you want. My non-Tesla quotes were a bit over $2.50/W and Tesla was also around $2.50/W as well. It's all area dependent though.
Great post. I found some website that shows MA and NH very high cost per watt. I think MA is high from prior incentives and installers pocketing it. And those prices overflow into NH. It really should not be this expensive. It’s probably $15K for the hardware and 2-3 days work.
 
And NH doesn’t have 1:1 NEM
Not many places have NEM 1:1. My MA system it was 80% which was still great and my system paid for itself in 6 years. NH NEM formula is complicated. Some components of your bill are 100% and other parts are %0. Where you end up I’m not exactly sure but it’s said to be better than MA. But NEM is being reevaluated.