[!= Ludicrous Mode, MVPA generated] - Should I walk away?

[dannycamps]

What about the dozens of threads claiming that the 85 is a better battery pack than the 90 because there were so many different versions of the 90 and you never know what you're getting?

Prior to batterygate/chargegate I would've agreed with you. In fact, when I bought my 85D, I picked it over a 90D because I figured the difference in range wouldn't be that great (85 vs. degraded 90) and the 85 pack had a reputation for being pretty solid.

Now, knowing how much the 85 packs are being throttled at superchargers, I would definitely opt for a 90 over an 85 if I was looking to buy.

Regarding the Ludicrous stuff (and I preface this by saying I've never driven in a Ludicrous-enabled car):
1. You still don't know if the car had Ludicrous enabled or if the original owner just replaced the badge. If it's the latter, Tesla did not change anything. In fact, Ludicrous is an option that Tesla typically does not remove from a car.

2. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't tell the difference between 2.3 0-60 and 2.9 0-60. I'm sure the "sh*t your pants" launches are nice but I have to say that my standard 100D with it's 3.9 0-60 is more than fast enough for me.

 

[Fragger]

2015 Model S P90DL, $42,800, 49K Miles, CPO 2 yr warranty
Cheaper. In Texas

Thank you Akikiki. I'm in touch with the original buyer... But as you can see the post, Tesla screwed him over... Backed out of the sale and raised the price $10K! A lot of posts of that happening...

Thank you for helping though!

 

[Fragger]

Prior to batterygate/chargegate I would've agreed with you. In fact, when I bought my 85D, I picked it over a 90D because I figured the difference in range wouldn't be that great (85 vs. degraded 90) and the 85 pack had a reputation for being pretty solid.

Now, knowing how much the 85 packs are being throttled at superchargers, I would definitely opt for a 90 over an 85 if I was looking to buy.

Regarding the Ludicrous stuff (and I preface this by saying I've never driven in a Ludicrous-enabled car):
1. You still don't know if the car had Ludicrous enabled or if the original owner just replaced the badge. If it's the latter, Tesla did not change anything. In fact, Ludicrous is an option that Tesla typically does not remove from a car.

2. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't tell the difference between 2.3 0-60 and 2.9 0-60. I'm sure the "sh*t your pants" launches are nice but I have to say that my standard 100D with it's 3.9 0-60 is more than fast enough for me.

Thankful, as always Danny! I have seen a thread or two with Tesla removing the Ludicrous, but I'm sure you're more knowledgeable.

I made the mistake of reading those discussions about missing the Ludicrous Mode upgrade and people swear by it ...

Seeing how I've only even rode in two model Ss, one Performance 85 from 2013 and another 85, I cannot fathom much of a disagreement from you on the ability to feel... But folks who have it... Swear of its presence... So yeah.... ...!

 

[Ostrichsak]

Prior to batterygate/chargegate I would've agreed with you. In fact, when I bought my 85D, I picked it over a 90D because I figured the difference in range wouldn't be that great (85 vs. degraded 90) and the 85 pack had a reputation for being pretty solid.

Now, knowing how much the 85 packs are being throttled at superchargers, I would definitely opt for a 90 over an 85 if I was looking to buy.

And then, three months from now, the 90's will all get throttled. Then what? You overpaid for what is basically the same car minus a couple of tenths here and there. That's my point. Prior to batterygate it was a no brainer that the 85 was the more "stable" choice on these forums. Now that this has happened it's probably closer to a wash now so what happens when the same gets done to the 90 batteries and then then 100's? You think this is ONLY for the smaller/older battery packs? Doubtful. All of them will meet the same fate if we're not able to get Tesla to reverse it's clear stance on aging battery packs and warranties.

 

[Fragger]

And then, three months from now, the 90's will all get throttled. Then what? You overpaid for what is basically the same car minus a couple of tenths here and there. That's my point. Prior to batterygate it was a no brainer that the 85 was the more "stable" choice on these forums. Now that this has happened it's probably closer to a wash now so what happens when the same gets done to the 90 batteries and then then 100's? You think this is ONLY for the smaller/older battery packs? Doubtful. All of them will meet the same fate if we're not able to get Tesla to reverse it's clear stance on aging battery packs and warranties.

Hi Ostrich, that's why I laid out the details of my purchase. Context matters here... If your prediction is true about the fate of the 90 battery packs, even more the reason for me to consider the current deal, in which I'm getting a 90 pack, but haven't necessarily paid for a P90D... Looking at and studying some of the CPO or used prices on Tesla lately, I think the price is way closer to what a P85D would go for, than a P90D...

Does that make sense at all? Or am I talking out of my butt?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Grab the car. Will give you years of enjoyment. "Better is the enemy of good".

 

[Fragger]

Grab the car. Will give you years of enjoyment. "Better is the enemy of good".

Haha, I'm definitely leaning towards getting it, Paul!

 

[dannycamps]

That's my point. Prior to batterygate it was a no brainer that the 85 was the more "stable" choice on these forums.

The truth is we don't know why Tesla throttled the 85 packs. Is it for longevity purposes or is it a safety issue (i.e. to prevent battery fires)? Tesla has never even fully acknowledged that they throttled the packs at all as far as I know even though they clearly did. Getting a real answer out of them is not going to happen.

And then, three months from now, the 90's will all get throttled. Then what?

Anything could happen but still if I was looking for a car today and found an 85D and a 90D for around the same price, I would get the 90D even if it nets me just a few extra miles in range.

 

[Fragger]

The truth is we don't know why Tesla throttled the 85 packs. Is it for longevity purposes or is it a safety issue (i.e. to prevent battery fires)? Tesla has never even fully acknowledged that they throttled the packs at all as far as I know even though they clearly did. Getting a real answer out of them is not going to happen.



Anything could happen but still if I was looking for a car today and found an 85D and a 90D for around the same price, I would get the 90D even if it nets me just a few extra miles in range.

Hey Danny somewhat of a related question, don't know if you would know... These P85Ds that Tesla put the 90 battery packs in and then changed the model in the software (cluster and screen), were they actually modeled to be P90Ds, that is, their performance and all matched a P90D, or that the range simply went up because a bigger battery was in there...

Not sure if that question makes sense? To me it does... Wondering if anyone knows this answer?

 

[KalJoMoS]

This should be evidential
- bigger battery = longer juice = better travel distance in mi/km
- better suspension (performance vs standard) = increased ride quality = better consumption
- bigger engines = increased power = better torque/instant power
Tesla has built these variable options on their cars to perform flawlessly, this all is reflected on individual car equipment list. If you have these on your car then it will perform as should (not wanting to get into this Ludicrous subject again)... Of course they can manipulate on software level (we all have seen this) but to have performance level vs standard level car you are getting all the better equipment to shine on you.

 

[whitex]

To remind you these 85kW battery’s have the worst degradation seen here...

Where did you get this data point?
I can't seem to find the thread with the spreadsheet about the different battery degradation, but IIRC when 90 battery was introduced the first year degradation was horrible. Now, the 90 battery actually had 3 different generations in it's short lifespan, so hopefully they got better, but we don't know here which 90 battery the car in question has.

 

[eskaryo]

I had multiple issues with my P85D+ sales page vs MVPA vs delivery day that I had to work through pretty patiently at the retail store the day I was supposed to take delivery. The vehicle per the site was configured with 21" turbines and free unlimited supercharging. The photos on the sales page were clearly 19" wheels which I brought up with my delivery advisors who stated it would be taken care of. The sales page stated I had free unlimited supercharging but the MVPA did not. Again delivery advisors said it would be handled.

I traveled about 1000 miles to take delivery and sort of wrapped it into a holiday vacation. When I arrived, it still had 19" wheels - the supercharging was not allocated. They pretty quickly wrote me a due order for the wheels but were unmoving on unlimited supercharging for the better part of 8 hours. I was ready to walk away and asked how they planned to get me back home given that I had traveled specifically for the vehicle purchase. That's when things broke in my favor finally.

If you have evidence of a feature your car is supposed to come with, press respectfully and don't take no for an answer and you may well have a better chance than someone who loses their patience and digs their own grave.


I snagged a P85D+ with ~35k miles around Christmas. I read a bit about the 90 packs and thought yeah the 85 was definitely the way to go. You got a better deal than I did which my ego is a little bruised over but I'll probably forget in 3 or 4 years so don't worry about it. My vehicle still peaks at 118kw when supercharging - granted that is when SoC is below 10% and tapers as everyone's does.

Was given a P90DL loaner with less than 50k miles when I finally got my 21s thrown on. The charging curve was very different and I didn't drive it enough to get to really know it but I did have to charge from about 3% SoC and that car did not break 90kw

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla has never even fully acknowledged that they throttled the packs at all as far as I know even though they clearly did

They've put it in writing a few times now but still won't say why. The closest they came to saying it in a general statement was the press release about fires where they announced "charge and thermal management" changes "rolling out today" on the same day they started downgrading 85 batteries. But individuals get it in writing every so often when they say "Yes we downgraded you intentionally and no we won't undo it unless you buy a new battery"

 

[Philatc]

Hello again friends,

Some of you guys know my journey here for the last week or so, as I try to get my first Tesla. Everything is ready to go, MVPA is generated, gotta send in some payments and I will be picking up my car in weeks or so... Texas is difficult.

But before I pull the final triggers, I need some input...

The car I have ordered in a 2014 P85D+ upgraded to a P90D, 38K miles, Multi-Coat Red, 21 inch wheels, AP1, MCU replaced last summer for the cost of $44,800. Basically, it has everything I'd want, including the Tesla warranty, but has been ripped of Free supercharging, connectivity is no longer free and is a 3G connection. Basically, what it's missing like the Sub-zero package, connectivity and all, I am coming to terms with based on the rest of it. The car also looks scratchless! Final bonus, it's practically local so I dodged the transportation fees too!

So what's wrong? What's missing? I bought the car with a P90DL badge on it. From all accounts from Tesla it does not have the Ludicrous update. As I'm bored and learning through the forums, I made the mistake of reading experiences of people with Ludicrous. How it's not only about the 0 - 60 time, but 30 to 70 and highway passing. And AFAIK, there will be no way to apply the upgrade later either. Even a P85DL is going to be faster. So, please help me think this through...

Should I walk away from this car and wait for a P90DL to come available at a good price? Or pull the trigger cause this is too good to pass up and L is not a big enough deal?

Tagging some friends I made here as well. @HankLloydRight @Seachange01 @jgatl

Thank you!

What's up Fragger? If I'm being honest here as I told you from the previous post. I do own a 2016 P100DL and let me say, shes fast. Now that car did replace a 2017 C7 Corvette so theres my reason for getting the Ludicrous mode. Ludicrous mode is sweet. It's fun to have it primed for the on ramps and what not. But to be honest you probably wont use it outside of those situations. The car is faster than a regular 100D. So if I was you and time is one your side I'd wait and get what you truly want. I've been hunting for a AP 2.0 car with a blue exterior and white interior with the carbon fiber package for some time now. Probably 6 months I'd say. The dream of owning a Tesla and not havent to go to Costco to fill up twice a week is sweet. Also let me mention before I forget. Right now tickets are super cheap for a plane trip to the location of the vehicle you pick. I would suggest flying out and driving the car back. That way you save money on the transportation fee. I'm only guessing but its sounds like its roughly a dollar per mile. Could be wrong on that so don't quote me.

One awesome option by going with Tesla is free supercharging for life. That was another reason for buying from Tesla. So in the end get what you want. I know, from past experiences, that if I dont have what I want I wont be satisfied with it. Again best of luck with your endeavor and be safe!

 

[Fragger]

This should be evidential
- bigger battery = longer juice = better travel distance in mi/km
- better suspension (performance vs standard) = increased ride quality = better consumption
- bigger engines = increased power = better torque/instant power
Tesla has built these variable options on their cars to perform flawlessly, this all is reflected on individual car equipment list. If you have these on your car then it will perform as should (not wanting to get into this Ludicrous subject again)... Of course they can manipulate on software level (we all have seen this) but to have performance level vs standard level car you are getting all the better equipment to shine on you.

Was this intended for me, friend? If so, I was merely trying to ask if putting the 90 battery in 85s improves the performance to P90D standards as well? Or is it simply range, but throttled otherwise to stay a P85D?

I had multiple issues with my P85D+ sales page vs MVPA vs delivery day that I had to work through pretty patiently at the retail store the day I was supposed to take delivery. The vehicle per the site was configured with 21" turbines and free unlimited supercharging. The photos on the sales page were clearly 19" wheels which I brought up with my delivery advisors who stated it would be taken care of. The sales page stated I had free unlimited supercharging but the MVPA did not. Again delivery advisors said it would be handled.

I traveled about 1000 miles to take delivery and sort of wrapped it into a holiday vacation. When I arrived, it still had 19" wheels - the supercharging was not allocated. They pretty quickly wrote me a due order for the wheels but were unmoving on unlimited supercharging for the better part of 8 hours. I was ready to walk away and asked how they planned to get me back home given that I had traveled specifically for the vehicle purchase. That's when things broke in my favor finally.

If you have evidence of a feature your car is supposed to come with, press respectfully and don't take no for an answer and you may well have a better chance than someone who loses their patience and digs their own grave.


I snagged a P85D+ with ~35k miles around Christmas. I read a bit about the 90 packs and thought yeah the 85 was definitely the way to go. You got a better deal than I did which my ego is a little bruised over but I'll probably forget in 3 or 4 years so don't worry about it. My vehicle still peaks at 118kw when supercharging - granted that is when SoC is below 10% and tapers as everyone's does.

Was given a P90DL loaner with less than 50k miles when I finally got my 21s thrown on. The charging curve was very different and I didn't drive it enough to get to really know it but I did have to charge from about 3% SoC and that car did not break 90kw

First things first, you have zero reason to have your ego bruised. I'm sure you have a gorgeous P85D, which you got wayyyy earlier than I did and even have the amazing option of Free Supercharging, which us used Tesla guys never ever get anymore, unless you're a P100D guy ...

I cannot stand on the evidence for getting Ludicrous mode... The only visual queue I have of the car ever getting the was the badge on the car, which many are saying could have been fake ... What baffles me though is, how can Tesla not update the badge for accuracy when they post it? I heard they happily update the badge if your car becomes a P90D from P85D, like mine did... But not sure why they didn't do this...

Did you feel the difference in regular every day acceleration when you got the P90DL? Also, do you have the P85DL?

38K on P85D+ is amazing brother man... Plus the FUSC! Congratulations and thank you for sharing your experience with me!

What's up Fragger? If I'm being honest here as I told you from the previous post. I do own a 2016 P100DL and let me say, shes fast. Now that car did replace a 2017 C7 Corvette so theres my reason for getting the Ludicrous mode. Ludicrous mode is sweet. It's fun to have it primed for the on ramps and what not. But to be honest you probably wont use it outside of those situations. The car is faster than a regular 100D. So if I was you and time is one your side I'd wait and get what you truly want. I've been hunting for a AP 2.0 car with a blue exterior and white interior with the carbon fiber package for some time now. Probably 6 months I'd say. The dream of owning a Tesla and not havent to go to Costco to fill up twice a week is sweet. Also let me mention before I forget. Right now tickets are super cheap for a plane trip to the location of the vehicle you pick. I would suggest flying out and driving the car back. That way you save money on the transportation fee. I'm only guessing but its sounds like its roughly a dollar per mile. Could be wrong on that so don't quote me.

One awesome option by going with Tesla is free supercharging for life. That was another reason for buying from Tesla. So in the end get what you want. I know, from past experiences, that if I dont have what I want I wont be satisfied with it. Again best of luck with your endeavor and be safe!

Hey Philatc! Thank you for responding.

Quite honestly, this car has nearly everything I ever could have imagined, if not more when I set out to actually execute on my dream of a Tesla. Sure, I was naive to think my first Tesla could be around 35K to start with, but I was also naive to not know that those are 2013 Ps, with no AP in most cases. Not to mention close to 80 to 90K miles.

Frankly, if not for that badge even on the car, I would've never even thought about the Ludicrous Mode... It's only on my mind because I feel Tesla stole the feature from the car...

With that said, I don't want to give this car up anymore, maybe next year I could sell and upgrade, but in the moment, and the way I got lucky with no delivery fees, I feel like it's a good first toe into the Tesla waters haha!

About the traveling, you're right, flying is dirt cheap right now... But even if I did that, you risk being friends with our friend Rona + the car is still 10K more than a P90D I got, 30K more miles and driving it back would be 1200 miles which will eat into the warranty and remember, they don't give us non P100D used buyers, free supercharging anymore, so there's Rona, time, and cost to do it.. ...

Maybe when I'm in the market again next year, I can get all the ultimate options?

 

[Akikiki]

You don't even know if it was Tesla that put that badge on the car. The previous owner probably is the person that did that. You don't know and never do I, but you blaming the underline of the badge on Tesla as being inaccurate and their doing.

Most of the time and particularly when its like just a coincident of events, people usually make mistakes without being malicious. You want to hear a likely scenario? There was a batch of 2013 & 2014 that had batteries that became what Tesla called out of balance. The size of the battery dropped when trying to charge. I don't know why it happened. It happened to mine. They took it in and put a refreshed battery in the car. I got a better battery. Mine was three years old.

The hints are that you got a replacement battery because we see its not an 85. And they probably didn't have any refurbished 85s sitting around so they put a 90 in yours. And the owner came and got it. And when he got in the car he was so excited to have a larger battery he did not jump out at a traffic light and check the badge on the back. So, days maybe later he calls the SC had says Oops. Sorry we don't have any 90 badges. We will order one. The owner being a smart person already known because he owns a Tesla jumped on ebay and found a badge. Hmm, this one's got a red line under it. Looks cool, and buys it. Likely didn't even know underlined badge means Ludicrous. And sticks it on the car.

So Tesla winds up with the car, and its been 5+ years since the underline badge was put on the car. And the person washing and vacuuming that used car doesn't notice - doesn't care if its got an underline on the badge. Since there's some without no badges, he doesn't really notice if it even has a badge.

I'll be glad when you get your car of your dreams.

 

[Fragger]

You don't even know if it was Tesla that put that badge on the car. The previous owner probably is the person that did that. You don't know and never do I, but you blaming the underline of the badge on Tesla as being inaccurate and their doing.

Most of the time and particularly when its like just a coincident of events, people usually make mistakes without being malicious. You want to hear a likely scenario? There was a batch of 2013 & 2014 that had batteries that became what Tesla called out of balance. The size of the battery dropped when trying to charge. I don't know why it happened. It happened to mine. They took it in and put a refreshed battery in the car. I got a better battery. Mine was three years old.

The hints are that you got a replacement battery because we see its not an 85. And they probably didn't have any refurbished 85s sitting around so they put a 90 in yours. And the owner came and got it. And when he got in the car he was so excited to have a larger battery he did not jump out at a traffic light and check the badge on the back. So, days maybe later he calls the SC had says Oops. Sorry we don't have any 90 badges. We will order one. The owner being a smart person already known because he owns a Tesla jumped on ebay and found a badge. Hmm, this one's got a red line under it. Looks cool, and buys it. Likely didn't even know underlined badge means Ludicrous. And sticks it on the car.

So Tesla winds up with the car, and its been 5+ years since the underline badge was put on the car. And the person washing and vacuuming that used car doesn't notice - doesn't care if its got an underline on the badge. Since there's some without no badges, he doesn't really notice if it even has a badge.

I'll be glad when you get your car of your dreams.

Hi Akikiki, aloha brother!

In my ~ 2 weeks of active posting, responding PMing, your response here was by far the "pointiest" for the lack of better words. Not sure why. If I said anything to upset you, my apologies and thank you, regardless for posting.

With that said, I believe you might have misinterpreted my explanation on the whole badge thing. I was saying that because that badge is there, it just screwed with my mind to get the Ludicrous mode, when the car, even without it, was something more than I could imagine owning 3 weeks ago. Not that I feel entitled and am upset at Tesla for removing a feature it had or it didn't. Like you said, you don't know, and neither do I. What we do know for sure is that Tesla strips off features from the original cars all the time. Sometimes without good explanations or corrections. Even in my car, which was produced with supposed Unlimited FUSC and Premium Connectivity, has been stripped of it, cause they changed policy. Again, not feeling entitled, just stating facts.

Because I know a tad bit more than you about this particular car, where it came from, I assure you, what's more likely is that Tesla took off a feature and missed the details, rather than an owner who drove the car in Florida for less than 6K miles/year and owned a car that originally cost over 110K easy (probably an older person), went on Ebay to buy a badge to falsely boast. On the contrary, SCs are known to change the badges for you when you get an update without any issues.

Tesla sent me an email they did some whopping 120 point certification of the car! When they screw up on their listings, they hardly apologize for their error and simply do a take back. I'm sorry, it's not unreasonable to expect details when you are buying from the manufacturer that is boasting about their certification process. Meanwhile there are countless posts of people having issues on the way back from the delivery center on tires and trivial things you won't expect when dishing out 50, 60, 70K for a car, moments ago.

Again, please don't misunderstand me for feeling entitled or being bratty or greedy. I was merely talking about how the idea was seeded for me. But your criticism (at least that is what I inferred) makes me feel like people who speak up and want Tesla to do and be better on this forum are not always given proper space to express themselves... Not for long at least . But I could be wrong... I'm the new guy and I have much to learn from members like you.

And oh, as if I don't do it every chance I get, I thank you and all on this community for being so nice and encouraging to me. I've learned a lot, but have so much to go...

I'm getting my dream car brother, but dreams can change... In the future haha!

 

[dannycamps]

Hey Danny somewhat of a related question, don't know if you would know... These P85Ds that Tesla put the 90 battery packs in and then changed the model in the software (cluster and screen), were they actually modeled to be P90Ds, that is, their performance and all matched a P90D, or that the range simply went up because a bigger battery was in there...

Not sure if that question makes sense? To me it does... Wondering if anyone knows this answer?

I have absolutely no idea but from I have heard anecdotally on here is when they change the battery, they also change the fuse, contactors, etc... which should bring the performance up to the same level.

A number of people here have had 85 packs replaced with a 90 pack so I am sure they can provide a better answer.

 

[Fragger]

I have absolutely no idea but from I have heard anecdotally on here is when they change the battery, they also change the fuse, contactors, etc... which should bring the performance up to the same level.

A number of people here have had 85 packs replaced with a 90 pack so I am sure they can provide a better answer.

Good tip, Danny, thank you, I'll read more. BTW if they do change the connectors and the fuse, then in theory, those cars should be able to receive Ludicrous mode, if it was still offered, right?

 

[Akikiki]

Several of us answered your first questions of what to look for. We told you look for a private sale. You will increase your chances of guaranteeing FUSC and Free connectivity. And you will know its history. Are you using the advice you sought? That advice was knowledge from experience. I guess it was not useful.

I predict that if that car has Ludicrous you are lucky. If it does not Tesla is not going to spend a minute of time to bring it to the same status that they might have done 5 years ago.

Have you sit in that car? Because you can see it in the settings if Ludicrous is enabled or Insane enabled. If you want to check it out and not depend on any history or badging or what someone is saying, maybe you should go sit in it and check the settings.