My Model 3 had a stroke it seems like

[3Volts2aTes]

Edit-unless you've had your brand new Tesla die twice on the side of the road only to have Tesla tell you there isn’t a problem twice, you probably shouldn’t be judging somebody else’s actions, especially if the actions solved the problem.

I will happily "judge" that you had no right to the loaner after they asked for it back. The term you are reaching for on that is "Theft by Conversion."

Beyond that, your issues with your vehicle and Tesla are yours, and I am glad they eventually resolved them. But I will, today, tomorrow and any other day be happy to judge the actions you have already stated you took on that particular point. You were wrong on that point - you had other legal options, but refusing to return property is theft, literally by definition, and it is not one of the ones you should have taken at all.

I doubt it actually speaks to your general character - you were frustrated and obviously unhappy with the situation - but it still was not proper, correct, or even legal. It is also not conduct you should be encouraging other people to mimic.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

A beacon of hope. Got a super friendly message from the weekend crew apologizing for the lack of communication and offering to pick the loaner up this morning.

Absolutely awesome. Unfortunately - as in every profession, there are those that do not stay up to standard, and others end up picking up the chips that were missed. If we are all honest, we are also sometime the person that misses the standard, and sometimes the one that picks up the chips and tries to make it right. But seeing that they are communicating and moving in the right direction for you is good to hear! Good luck.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

I fully understand it's a courtesy and I can assure you I was friendly without an attitude. But I was also not accepting a simple no as an answer. The fact remains this is a car that we got in May of this year, barely crossed the 3k miles mark and broke down three times, leaving us stranded and had to get towed twice. I didn't buy a car to fight for useless Uber credits, have to arrange with friends and family to drop and pick up kids from / to school and worry about when the car might shut down again (luckily so far only on local roads, not a four lane highway). I believe in kindness, but that doesn't exclude being firm on getting what I paid for. I'm not expecting a red carpet, but I expect a similarly kind person on the other end and coming up with solutions.

This is always the best path. Essentially when you get told no the "I understand if that is the limit to what you can do, but I do need more. Who has the authority to give a different answer because that is who I need to speak with now." If the person does not have the authority or ability to tell you yes, you don't needlessly escalate with them to no result (and generally if they cannot give you a yes, at that point they will very happily put you in touch with who can).

I feel like you are on the right path. It is just frustrating, unfortunately. Best of luck!

 

[3Volts2aTes]

I don't know how your specific SC works, but for Tesla in general (and in other discussions other car companies in general also) a loaner provided during service is a courtesy, not something that is guaranteed as terms of service.

Bingo. Funny how people seem to convert courtesy into entitlements.

Yes, I have had several Mercedes vehicles, and was fortunate enough to have a close relationship with a dealership who provided loaner vehicles even when the vehicle was in for work beyond or outside of warranty. Not only did I appreciate each and every time I was provided that courtesy, but it did get them continued business. There were also times when they had to tell me they had none available - and there was nothing wrong with that.

 

[palt]

Technician inspected and found vehicle with intermittent alerts due to a vehicle communication line with grounded signaling. Technician thoroughly inspected the vehicle wiring involving the complete layout for the affected system and found one minor point contacting vehicle ground. The affected wiring was cleaned and repaired, and vehicle was found without concerning symptoms after vehicle was reset and repairs were completed.

Going to pick up the car later. Let’s hope this was the last harness issue and this indeed resolves the sporadic breakdowns.

 

[palt]

This is always the best path. Essentially when you get told no the "I understand if that is the limit to what you can do, but I do need more. Who has the authority to give a different answer because that is who I need to speak with now." If the person does not have the authority or ability to tell you yes, you don't needlessly escalate with them to no result (and generally if they cannot give you a yes, at that point they will very happily put you in touch with who can).

100% this. People get angry at front facing personnel who can't do anything about it. The most powerful question is "who can I speak with that might be able to help me in this situation. I understand your hands are tied and you may not be able to give approval here". And bonus point for being friendly and respectful. We're all in this together and yelling rarely ever solves anything.

 

[phishphan]

I will happily "judge" that you had no right to the loaner after they asked for it back. The term you are reaching for on that is "Theft by Conversion."

Beyond that, your issues with your vehicle and Tesla are yours, and I am glad they eventually resolved them. But I will, today, tomorrow and any other day be happy to judge the actions you have already stated you took on that particular point. You were wrong on that point - you had other legal options, but refusing to return property is theft, literally by definition, and it is not one of the ones you should have taken at all.

I doubt it actually speaks to your general character - you were frustrated and obviously unhappy with the situation - but it still was not proper, correct, or even legal. It is also not conduct you should be encouraging other people to mimic.

You can call it whatever you want but it solved the problem. My only intent was to get the attention from somebody, anybody really. It should have never had to be escalated to what I had to do. I have never had to do anything like this before in my life but when nobody will even listen to you, sometimes you do what you have to do and it worked.

Also, I will today, tomorrow or any other day be happy to again suggest what I did when others are facing this situation. You simply don’t understand what it’s like to have your brand new car die on you TWICE and have the manufacturer tell you “sorry about your luck continue driving this completely unsafe vehicle” with literally no other option. You can read stories and feign empathy to the situation but until it happens to you you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Other legal remedies you mention would have left us with a dangerous vehicle for who knows how long. A year minimum though I would presume which is also unacceptable.

 

[phishphan]

100% this. People get angry at front facing personnel who can't do anything about it. The most powerful question is "who can I speak with that might be able to help me in this situation. I understand your hands are tied and you may not be able to give approval here". And bonus point for being friendly and respectful. We're all in this together and yelling rarely ever solves anything.

For the record, I was never anything but polite and professional until it was not reciprocated. And even then, I never even so much as raised my voice. I remained calm, but firm in my stance that they never fixed our car so I would not be picking it up until is repaired. I live an hour away and let them know they could come pick up the loaner whenever they’d like but I was not personally going to waste 2 hours round trip of my time to take it back and that I wouldn’t be picking up our car until it had been repaired.

I work in sales for a manufacturer so I know exactly what it’s like when an end user confronts me.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

You can call it whatever you want but it solved the problem. My only intent was to get the attention from somebody, anybody really. It should have never had to be escalated to what I had to do. I have never had to do anything like this before in my life but when nobody will even listen to you, sometimes you do what you have to do and it worked.

I am not "calling it." I am stating you committed theft. Not you threatened, you committed theft and you try to justify it. Simple hard truth, and that you did not get prosecuted for it does not mean that your behavior was legal or acceptable.

I appreciate that you make the assumption that you are the only person that has ever been in that situation. Maybe the others just chose not to actually commit a crime to get their way. As I said, you were frustrated, and I do not feel that your actions define your general character, and I am glad that the end result had the issue resolved. That does not change what you did, nor does it make it any "better."

 

[jjrandorin]

(moderator note)

Im going to ask that the side bar discussion on theft or not of a loaner be discontinued (and by ask I mean that I will be removing any posts on or around that topic from this thread that occur after my post here).

Thanks

 

[palt]

FWIW it wasn’t my intention to stir up this conversation topic again and in any way criticize phisphan’s earlier posts or his story.

Back to topic: I got the car back and returned the loaner. So far very unspectacular, car drives fine. If it was indeed a harness rubbing against something and eventually shorting against ground then only time will tell if there are other spots that will eventually show the same issue.

Now it’s a matter of keeping the car (and waiting for it to potentially fail again) or look elsewhere. But there’s no immediate answer.

 

[phishphan]

FWIW it wasn’t my intention to stir up this conversation topic again and in any way criticize phisphan’s earlier posts or his story.

Back to topic: I got the car back and returned the loaner. So far very unspectacular, car drives fine. If it was indeed a harness rubbing against something and eventually shorting against ground then only time will tell if there are other spots that will eventually show the same issue.

Now it’s a matter of keeping the car (and waiting for it to potentially fail again) or look elsewhere. But there’s no immediate answer.

I know the feeling well. IMO if they fixed it, they fixed it. I’ve tried to recreate the problem many times since they finally replaced the PCS and haven’t been able to, thankfully.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

FWIW it wasn’t my intention to stir up this conversation topic again and in any way criticize phisphan’s earlier posts or his story.

Back to topic: I got the car back and returned the loaner. So far very unspectacular, car drives fine. If it was indeed a harness rubbing against something and eventually shorting against ground then only time will tell if there are other spots that will eventually show the same issue.

Now it’s a matter of keeping the car (and waiting for it to potentially fail again) or look elsewhere. But there’s no immediate answer.

That is always the downside, it has let you down and now it takes a very long time to gain trust again. I am glad that they believe they have it fixed, and I am glad to hear that they are treating you right.

Trust me, like many, I have been there. I can only say that I hope it gains your trust quickly and that eventually the issue fades in memory as the car is enjoyed.

 

[palt]

We were planning on taking the car for a ~1200 mi roadtrip in September. Let's see if we feel up for it or if we fall back on our ICE.

 

[jjrandorin]

We were planning on taking the car for a ~1200 mi roadtrip in September. Let's see if we feel up for it or if we fall back on our ICE.

IMO, this should depend on not only how you feel about it (or dont) but how your significant other / family feel about it. if taking the tesla would introduce more stress into that "extensive" road trip, better to not take it. If the idea of taking the tesla is exciting to you and the family, and it seems solid in between now and then, then consider it.

I hope it is solid from here on out, here is fingers crossed for you.

 

[phishphan]

We were planning on taking the car for a ~1200 mi roadtrip in September. Let's see if we feel up for it or if we fall back on our ICE.

We’re heading to Denver tomorrow morning for the weekend. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little nervous given past performance. ABRP says to go through vernal and charge in Craig, CO. Not doing that, but rather the usual I-80 with two stops just bc at least it’s a major interstate if the car shuts down again…

 

[phishphan]

OP, how’s it going?

 

[3Volts2aTes]

Yes…I am hoping for a good report on this one. Speaking of…was you Denver trip a success?

 

[palt]

Car is behaving so far.
Didn't take it to Denver though, didn't feel ready to get stranded in the middle of nowhere.
Likely going to take the ICE for our upcoming long road trip. The combination of the experience so far, but also the added time for charging is the deciding factor. I really want to take it on a longer trip finally, but probably the next one.

 

[3Volts2aTes]

Very well understand that. Glad it is doing well!