Not impressed with brakes ..awd

[Vines]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on the noise comments and watching youtube videos I am now leaning against HP+ pads. I do want something with more cold bite and preferably a little more heat resistance (although this is a much lower priority).

Again I am mostly focused on emergency braking in LA freeway traffic. Currently switching from Autopilot to manual braking incurs a delay as your response time typically goes up when taking over control vs operating oneself. In addition to this, I feel as though the mechanical brakes take much more pressure than on other cars (owned a BMW 335i, Nissan Leaf, VW Golf, Mazda MX-6 and a few others before) for full application. I am not sure how much of this is due to not using the brakes often and being less familiar or due to the change over from autopilot but I want immediate bite with less pressure because. I am applying the mechanical brakes is because I need a lot of stopping power immediately (otherwise I use regen). I am not concerned with rotor abrasion or dust. Noise does matter though.

This has become an issue for me as I was recently in a fender bender. I was in autopilot and the car did not emergency brake (I will increase my following distance when in autopilot from now on as maybe the frame rate is not quick enough for close following emergency braking). I had to take control of the car which added about half a second to a full second delay in braking as I made this decision and moved my foot to the brake. Then when I did brake the brakes required much much more pressure to lock them up. So much I am not sure they did lock up.

I am looking for a solution to prevent this from being an issue in the future. First step is going to 255 or 265 Pilot Sport 4s and dropping the OEM all seasons. Second is lines and third is pads. Currently leaning toward Unplugged performance pads or MPP pads. Really I just want data on their cold braking response but I have not seen anything on them yet.

Curious what you set your follow distance to since you say the car was not able to stop in time, what speed were you driving? Sounds like a combination of close follow distance, delay in actual braking, and all season tires all contributed to this. Honestly I am not sure looking for New pads will really make you safer, but if it makes you feel better that's probably just as good.
As stated above, if you cannot lock up the brakes take it in for service. However I didn't get that as the issue when reading your thread.
TM3 brakes definetely have a low boost feeling that may not be nice for some people, but I really like it. When I need full braking its there with a nice hard press, however its not overboosted like some cars are. This actually reduces braking performance for me, as the sudden lock up isn't as good as gradual weight transfer.
Using high performance and very wide wires will certainly help, and honestly the stock width P4S is a very good tire and decent balance between range and grip. If range isn't a big deal for you, then the 265 will be even better.

 

[Odiemac]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on the noise comments and watching youtube videos I am now leaning against HP+ pads. I do want something with more cold bite and preferably a little more heat resistance (although this is a much lower priority).

Again I am mostly focused on emergency braking in LA freeway traffic. Currently switching from Autopilot to manual braking incurs a delay as your response time typically goes up when taking over control vs operating oneself. In addition to this, I feel as though the mechanical brakes take much more pressure than on other cars (owned a BMW 335i, Nissan Leaf, VW Golf, Mazda MX-6 and a few others before) for full application. I am not sure how much of this is due to not using the brakes often and being less familiar or due to the change over from autopilot but I want immediate bite with less pressure because. I am applying the mechanical brakes is because I need a lot of stopping power immediately (otherwise I use regen). I am not concerned with rotor abrasion or dust. Noise does matter though.

This has become an issue for me as I was recently in a fender bender. I was in autopilot and the car did not emergency brake (I will increase my following distance when in autopilot from now on as maybe the frame rate is not quick enough for close following emergency braking). I had to take control of the car which added about half a second to a full second delay in braking as I made this decision and moved my foot to the brake. Then when I did brake the brakes required much much more pressure to lock them up. So much I am not sure they did lock up.

I am looking for a solution to prevent this from being an issue in the future. First step is going to 255 or 265 Pilot Sport 4s and dropping the OEM all seasons. Second is lines and third is pads. Currently leaning toward Unplugged performance pads or MPP pads. Really I just want data on their cold braking response but I have not seen anything on them yet.

It sounds like what you want is a different master brake cylinder. The popular upgrade on porsches is to upgrade to a normal 911 or Cayman to the GT3 master cylinder, which is larger and gives more bite at shallower strokes.

Not sure that’s possible on a Tesla, yet.

 

[animorph]

OK, I know what ABS activation felt like in my old 2001 Porsche Carrera 4, but what does it feel like in the Model 3? I haven't experimented with it yet.

I do know traction control feels way different. An obvious bog-down for the Porsche and our old BMW's, but hardly noticeable with the Model 3 except I'm not spinning out.

If the ABS is similarly fast acting it would be tough to feel it activate.

And in no case should the brakes be "locking up". That's the whole point of ABS.

 

[ℬête Noire]

They were thinking that it's a street car. If you intend to track it, you'll need to upgrade. There's nothing wrong with the brakes for normal driving.

While it's a different league than any hybrid or BEV out there I've come across**, its not entirely linear in application (EDIT: or perhaps they are true linear in parts of the range rather than the exponential that we humans tend to think of being linear ). They come strong on fairly short travel, feel pretty good, and then there's a flat spot you have to push through to get it to bite the last bit to ABS limits. The 2 ton+ weight of the AWD/P probably has some bearing on this.

** I've not sat in a 918 Spyder , which I expect (at least in upper trims?) is top shelf. My understanding is the 918 brakes aren't even hydraulic, rather it electrically activates the friction brakes.

 

[ℬête Noire]

BTW locally a Tesla owner was involved in a rear-ending on a multi-lane 65mph toll road (like a freeway only not "free" ). What happened was that EAP successfully identified the problem and activated braking and they decided to "make sure" and stepped on the brakes themselves, thus deactivating the EAP. They described it as "the car sped up" but that sensation can easily come from simply slower deceleration. My guess is they weren't standing on the brakes as hard as he EAP knew the car could perform, and was activating itself (I assume via servos attached to the hydraulic brake system?)

It's definitely something to keep on top of, especially with driving one-pedal which is a lot easier to do in the AWD than the RWD. Making sure you remain capable and familiar with your vehicle's friction brakes in case you do need to use them. The Model 3 at least you actually touch the pedal regularly, even if it's only at full stops. The Bolt is an even bigger trap on this in that it is entirely feasible to drive such that you can go days without touching the brake pedal at all.

 

[Msjulie]

Back in the day I really liked these on my Audi A4 Quattro

:: #1 Race Specialist in The World :: Porterfield Brakes

We used their race pads as well - I did not go look to see if they have applicable sizes though

 

[MountainPass]

I have owned a tuned Evo 8 Mr .. that said I know this doesn't have the same performance in the braking.. but...

While traveling with other cars at a high rate of speed into a sweeping corner every car brand I've traveled with out brakes me into the turn. I'm talking like scrubbing of 10-15mph on the straight prior to turn set up .

I get a brake fade or feeling as if they just are not there at all . On the first use.. let alone how it effects the car to use the throttle to stay into the turn as apposed to being scared that you just went wide and crashed your car .

What's the complete cost to put something on the car that will be more fitting for it's performance..

Tesla didn't think we needed to stop as fast as start apparently.

We know a guy.

 

[brandonee916]

I didn't see many comments about this... but something that I had to get used to was the WEIGHT of this car, that was the biggest change for me coming from the much lighter cars I've owned. To me it feels like I'm driving a large SUV, which frankly I don't mind.. So for me its not about the brakes/tires themselves but the weight of the car... having said that, I don't have any issue with mine... if I need to stop it will stop and ABS kicks in if needed.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I didn't see many comments about this... but something that I had to get used to was the WEIGHT of this car, that was the biggest change for me coming from the much lighter cars I've owned. To me it feels like I'm driving a large SUV, which frankly I don't mind.. So for me its not about the brakes/tires themselves but the weight of the car... having said that, I don't have any issue with mine... if I need to stop it will stop and ABS kicks in if needed.

Nah, the brakes on my Q7 feel way better than the ones on the Tesla and it's a heavier car. They are very grabby in comparison, even at low pedal pressure and when cold, .

I think the pads on the Model 3 are just poorly matched to the specific rotor/application. They feel as if they're not depositing any glaze over the rotor and they have a very low friction coefficient at low pressure. They do stop the car, since they can lock the wheels, but there's a narrower-than-normal band between the point where they start to bite properly and the point where they lock the wheels. That makes for a rather uncouth feel. The brakes on the Model S P85D I drove did not have this problem, and that's also a significantly heavier car.

 

[zhu-]

Nah, the brakes on my Q7 feel way better than the ones on the Tesla and it's a heavier car. They are very grabby in comparison, even at low pedal pressure and when cold, .

I think the pads on the Model 3 are just poorly matched to the specific rotor/application. They feel as if they're not depositing any glaze over the rotor and they have a very low friction coefficient at low pressure. They do stop the car, since they can lock the wheels, but there's a narrower-than-normal band between the point where they start to bite properly and the point where they lock the wheels. That makes for a rather uncouth feel. The brakes on the Model S P85D I drove did not have this problem, and that's also a significantly heavier car.

I feel the same. The Model 3 doesn't have the braking confidence as other cars in the same $40-$60k range.

 

[DrSmile]

Also coming from an Evo 9, but I have the P3D+, and the Model 3 is better in every way except for cornering... it's light by electric car standards but is still very heavy. I haven't tried track mode yet maybe that will mitigate the issue somewhat.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Also coming from an Evo 9, but I have the P3D+, and the Model 3 is better in every way except for cornering... it's light by electric car standards but is still very heavy. I haven't tried track mode yet maybe that will mitigate the issue somewhat.

Hmm, Evo ...
Everyone should own a car like that at some point in life.

 

[MountainPass]

Hmm, Evo ...
Everyone should own a car like that at some point in life.

Everyone should heavily modify a turbocharged car at some point in life so they can appreciate their Tesla more!

 

[SD_Engnr]

Everyone should heavily modify a turbocharged car at some point in life so they can appreciate their Tesla more!

So true. I've got one sitting in the garage that I thought I'd never sell, but now I don't see what the point of keeping it around will be.

 

[XBS9]

So true. I've got one sitting in the garage that I thought I'd never sell, but now I don't see what the point of keeping it around will be.

Me too