Not impressed with brakes ..awd

[Msjulie]

I agree, I actually hope to never use my brakes because brake dust. But I'm just saying if you take regen out of the equation the brakes are undersized. That's why people are reporting what they are feeling. I'm not saying they are inadequate, just slightly small rotors for a 4000 pound car.

Could be, the same was claimed true of the original Roadster (mine had upgraded rotors all around) - I view it as primarily an economic decision on Tesla's part.. and that they figure regen is available 99% of the time <--- on that I would be curious what the actual percentage is since I've only ever topped off the charge in my car 1 time and don't recall brake performance at the time.

 

[Odiemac]

The brake caliper hardware in the base Model 3 is super nice, in fact it’s the same front calipers as Model S, Ford Mustang GT500, Camarillo SS, and I think it’s even the same as Evo 8/9!

Change your front pads and fluids if you want a more aggressive “bite” to the brakes.

Hawk Performance StreetRace Brake Pads

 

[zhu-]

Coming from a Mercedes, the brakes did feel weak and linear - which I don't personally prefer, I like the initial bite. I did a brake test during a test drive on a RWD with aero wheels and could feel the ABS without much braking effort. Though I'd bet it was more due to the tires. Has anyone noticed significant braking improvements after an upgrade to performance all-seasons or summer tires?

 

[EV-by-the-Sea]

Why are you regularly driving 100mph? Lol

Why are you not?

 

[ChrisH]

Why are you not?

Umm because the speed limit does not permit that and I live in the Seattle area so there are not a ton of opportunities to do so haha

 

[Knightshade]

Coming from a Mercedes, the brakes did feel weak and linear - which I don't personally prefer, I like the initial bite. I did a brake test during a test drive on a RWD with aero wheels and could feel the ABS without much braking effort. Though I'd bet it was more due to the tires. Has anyone noticed significant braking improvements after an upgrade to performance all-seasons or summer tires?

Yup- braking distance in normal use is almost entirelty about the tires, not the brakes.

Switching from the crap all seasons to good summer tires will knock 20ish feet off your 60-0 stopping time (there's a recent thread about an owner doing exactly that, with 60-0 before/after test results posted)

Versus the biggest BBK in the world, which of course would reduce it by 0 feet, since it's the tires, not the brakes, actually stopping the car.

 

[zhu-]

Yup- braking distance in normal use is almost entirelty about the tires, not the brakes.

Switching from the crap all seasons to good summer tires will knock 20ish feet off your 60-0 stopping time (there's a recent thread about an owner doing exactly that, with 60-0 before/after test results posted)

Versus the biggest BBK in the world, which of course would reduce it by 0 feet, since it's the tires, not the brakes, actually stopping the car.

20ft would be a huge different indeed. How do you think performance all-seasons would compare?

 

[Knightshade]

20ft would be a huge different indeed. How do you think performance all-seasons would compare?

Haven't seen a direct comparison- but I expect they'd still beat the OEM all seasons by a decent amount.... a lot of vette guys replaced their OEM PSS summers (the tires that came before the PS 4S) with all season A/S 3+ and compared them very favorably.

That said the 4S is better still... (at cost of about half the tire life and not being useful in freezing weather, especially with moisture on the ground)

Given you're in NJ, where they actually get real snow, my advice would be run summer tires when it's gonna be above 40 consistently, and actual winter tires when it's gonna be below that consistently... should beat any all season in all seasons.

 

[ElectricGhost]

Also not happy with the brakes. Was recently in a fender bender and I dont think I even hit the ABS. Took a lot more pressure than I thought to fully apply the brakes. Will be looking into pilot sport 4s tires, steel brake lines, and pads with much more bite (don't care about dust as I mechanical brakes are mostly for emergencies or the track). May consider fluid upgrade too but I dont think that will improve street braking.

Looking for the pad with the most street bite (dont care about dusting or track really). Any suggestions?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I tested the brakes and found that they work very well with the stock MXM4s and even better with the Pilot Sport 4S. If you're not activating the ABS that sounds like a big problem!
POLL: What will my 60-0 stopping distance be with Pilot Sport 4S 265/40R18s be?

 

[ElectricGhost]

I tested the brakes and found that they work very well with the stock MXM4s and even better with the Pilot Sport 4S. If you're not activating the ABS that sounds like a big problem!
POLL: What will my 60-0 stopping distance be with Pilot Sport 4S 265/40R18s be?

Thanks for putting that data together. I went through that a few weeks back. I am more concerned with brake feel than stopping power (tires upgrade improve stopping distance for me pretty easily). I want more bite sooner with less pedal pressure. Thinking pads and steel braided lines will give me the feel I want on the street and will compliment the upgrade to a square 255 or 265 pilot sport 4s.

Thinking of going with hawk hp plus pads as they have optimal performance at cold braking temps as well as additional high temperature capabilities vs OEM. Best in both areas. Not too concerned about dust as I mostly use regen and am more looking for better street emergency braking for LA highway traffic and something with the potential for autocross.

Pad noise may be a bit of an issue but I think its worth a shot when improving both bite and high temp braking vs OEM.

Model 3 Hawk HPPLUS Performance Front Brake Pads

 

[Daniel in SD]

Thanks for putting that data together. I went through that a few weeks back. I am more concerned with brake feel than stopping power (tires upgrade improve stopping distance for me pretty easily). I want more bite sooner with less pedal pressure. Thinking pads and steel braided lines will give me the feel I want on the street and will compliment the upgrade to a square 255 or 265 pilot sport 4s.

Thinking of going with hawk hp plus pads as they have optimal performance at cold braking temps as well as additional high temperature capabilities vs OEM. Best in both areas. Not too concerned about dust as I mostly use regen and am more looking for better street emergency braking for LA highway traffic and something with the potential for autocross.

Pad noise may be a bit of an issue but I think its worth a shot when improving both bite and high temp braking vs OEM.

Model 3 Hawk HPPLUS Performance Front Brake Pads

I've got Hawk HP Plus pads on my Exocet (kit car) and while they have crazy good bite they do squeak loudly! They also produce an incredible amount of brake dust.

 

[zhu-]

I've got Hawk HP Plus pads on my Exocet (kit car) and while they have crazy good bite they do squeak loudly! They also produce an incredible amount of brake dust.

Sounds about right for performance brakes. I hear the common and recommended way to remedy the squeaking is to do occasional hard brakes to clear out any of the clogged dust in the crevices.

 

[Big Earl]

I think the front rotors are undersized, I don't know what they were thinking.

They were thinking that most people would do the bulk of their deceleration with regenerative braking. I suppose they were also think that track fans would go for a P3D+ with the bigger brakes and track mode with stronger regenerative braking.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Sounds about right for performance brakes. I hear the common and recommended way to remedy the squeaking is to do occasional hard brakes to clear out any of the clogged dust in the crevices.

They stop squeaking when you drive hard but it would be horrible on a Tesla.

 

[THX723]

Agreed the oem pad compound lacks bite. But I also wonder if that's not by Tesla's design, so the transition from regen to friction braking is more seamless. This is trickier than one might think and a bane of many hybrids -- recalling the inconsistent braking behavior of our Prius at low speed and temperature.

I've had extensive experience tracking the Hawk HP+ pads on other applications. It's an okay compound, but not one of my favorites. Apart from the incredible dusting and noise, which someone else already pointed out, it can also be quite abrasive on the rotors at heightened duty. You might be able to get away with it on a Tesla, since friction brakes are utilized much less than ICE vehicles.

Finally, unless the intention is to do hot laps at the track, pad upgrade alone should suffice the weekend warriors. At any rate, if you do decide to switch to the Hawk HP+, I'd be very curious to hear back regarding how it behaved during regen/friction brake transition @hot vs. cold temperatures.

 

[alsetym]

I run HP+ on my track car...you do NOT want these on your tesla. EV's use soft low temp compounds so they are ready to rock even though you barely ever use them. If you can't lock up the ABS, you either aren't pushing hard enough or you have a significant issue in your booster system, they are dragging (i.e. getting hot) or you are driving like a crazy person (again, getting hot). Compare the brakes on a tesla to the drum brakes on a 4000lb car from 20 years ago...they are more than adequate for street duty. On the street, braking distance = tire grip.

 

[ElectricGhost]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on the noise comments and watching youtube videos I am now leaning against HP+ pads. I do want something with more cold bite and preferably a little more heat resistance (although this is a much lower priority).

Again I am mostly focused on emergency braking in LA freeway traffic. Currently switching from Autopilot to manual braking incurs a delay as your response time typically goes up when taking over control vs operating oneself. In addition to this, I feel as though the mechanical brakes take much more pressure than on other cars (owned a BMW 335i, Nissan Leaf, VW Golf, Mazda MX-6 and a few others before) for full application. I am not sure how much of this is due to not using the brakes often and being less familiar or due to the change over from autopilot but I want immediate bite with less pressure because. I am applying the mechanical brakes is because I need a lot of stopping power immediately (otherwise I use regen). I am not concerned with rotor abrasion or dust. Noise does matter though.

This has become an issue for me as I was recently in a fender bender. I was in autopilot and the car did not emergency brake (I will increase my following distance when in autopilot from now on as maybe the frame rate is not quick enough for close following emergency braking). I had to take control of the car which added about half a second to a full second delay in braking as I made this decision and moved my foot to the brake. Then when I did brake the brakes required much much more pressure to lock them up. So much I am not sure they did lock up.

I am looking for a solution to prevent this from being an issue in the future. First step is going to 255 or 265 Pilot Sport 4s and dropping the OEM all seasons. Second is lines and third is pads. Currently leaning toward Unplugged performance pads or MPP pads. Really I just want data on their cold braking response but I have not seen anything on them yet.

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on the noise comments and watching youtube videos I am now leaning against HP+ pads. I do want something with more cold bite and preferably a little more heat resistance (although this is a much lower priority).

Again I am mostly focused on emergency braking in LA freeway traffic. Currently switching from Autopilot to manual braking incurs a delay as your response time typically goes up when taking over control vs operating oneself. In addition to this, I feel as though the mechanical brakes take much more pressure than on other cars (owned a BMW 335i, Nissan Leaf, VW Golf, Mazda MX-6 and a few others before) for full application. I am not sure how much of this is due to not using the brakes often and being less familiar or due to the change over from autopilot but I want immediate bite with less pressure because. I am applying the mechanical brakes is because I need a lot of stopping power immediately (otherwise I use regen). I am not concerned with rotor abrasion or dust. Noise does matter though..

If you can't engage ABS with the stock brakes then your car is broken and you need to take it in for service.

Beyond that-Changing pads (or rotors, or anything else on the stock brakes) can not reduce your emergency stopping distance.

Even companies with a huge vested interest in selling brake upgrades (the honest ones anyway like Brembo and Stoptech) admit this is the case (Brembos FAQ for example explains they don't supply stopping distance testing data because brake upgrades can't reduce stopping distance).

Only stickier tires can do that.

The brakes don't stop the car- the tires do.


if you'd like a detailed explanation of why all of the above is true from a guy who is a moderately famous braking systems engineer you'll want to read this article.

GRM Pulp Friction


It goes into detail on what each element of a braking system does, and why upgrading it won't (and physically can't do what you say you want (ie stop the car any shorter than the stock brakes).

 

[Daniel in SD]

Thanks for the feedback. Based on the noise comments and watching youtube videos I am now leaning against HP+ pads. I do want something with more cold bite and preferably a little more heat resistance (although this is a much lower priority).

Again I am mostly focused on emergency braking in LA freeway traffic. Currently switching from Autopilot to manual braking incurs a delay as your response time typically goes up when taking over control vs operating oneself. In addition to this, I feel as though the mechanical brakes take much more pressure than on other cars (owned a BMW 335i, Nissan Leaf, VW Golf, Mazda MX-6 and a few others before) for full application. I am not sure how much of this is due to not using the brakes often and being less familiar or due to the change over from autopilot but I want immediate bite with less pressure because. I am applying the mechanical brakes is because I need a lot of stopping power immediately (otherwise I use regen). I am not concerned with rotor abrasion or dust. Noise does matter though.

This has become an issue for me as I was recently in a fender bender. I was in autopilot and the car did not emergency brake (I will increase my following distance when in autopilot from now on as maybe the frame rate is not quick enough for close following emergency braking). I had to take control of the car which added about half a second to a full second delay in braking as I made this decision and moved my foot to the brake. Then when I did brake the brakes required much much more pressure to lock them up. So much I am not sure they did lock up.

I am looking for a solution to prevent this from being an issue in the future. First step is going to 255 or 265 Pilot Sport 4s and dropping the OEM all seasons. Second is lines and third is pads. Currently leaning toward Unplugged performance pads or MPP pads. Really I just want data on their cold braking response but I have not seen anything on them yet.

I feel like you should test the brakes in a safe setting and practice panic braking. You need to get comfortable with pressing hard on the brake pedal.
It has been found that many drivers do not press the brake pedal hard enough in emergency situations. Other cars try to solve this problem by having emergency brake assistance. The car will try to detect when you're panic stopping by how fast you press the brake pedal. Maybe your previous vehicle had such a system?