Jaff
Active Member
Hey, don't forget to mention Ontario when you post about the idiocy of EVIP amendments...if you don't mention the substandard, illogical efforts of the Ontario Provincial guv, they're liable to feel left out...:wink:
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mrElbe
Active Member
Ktowntslafan
Member
Which one of you is pals with this woman, lol...
I first brought this issue to the attention of the government in 2014. Back then, a wealthy person with whom I am acquainted was surprised to discover that when he purchased a Tesla (price tag $150,000) the province rewarded him for going green with $10,000 in subsidies and financial help to install the charger.
It's so flagrantly over the top, like a fictional piece written by a child.
After all, his other car is an Aston Martin and he routinely flies to his seaside mansion in a private jet. He doesn’t really need a subsidy.
It’s not as if taking away the subsidy is going to change his lifestyle. He’ll still be able to afford the odd bottle of vintage wine and the occasional cigar.
I’m waiting for all these well-heeled Tesla drivers to drive in circles around the building, honking their horns to demand the return of their subsidy.
Then again, maybe they’ll just send their chauffeurs.
Article here: Ontario GTA
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Ktowntslafan
Member
My response...luckily I don't have a private jet 
Jump in in if you like:
Christina Blizzard on Twitter:
Jump in in if you like:
Christina Blizzard on Twitter:
Ktowntslafan
Member
*Article is from 2014*
Illustrates what is possible with aggressive EVIP, and why BIG AUTO would fight a level playing field tooth and nail
Tesla Model S is Norway’s best-selling vehicle, outsells Ford’s entire range
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Wednesday, April 2, 2014, 5:08 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/te...-outsells-ford-entire-range-article-1.1743470
- - - Updated - - -
As someone who’s a fiscal conservative, my friend is oddly rather pleased that the government has seen the light on green subsidies — even if it’s at his expense. It’s not as if taking away the subsidy is going to change his lifestyle. He’ll still be able to afford the odd bottle of vintage wine and the occasional cigar.
In Red-What the article is really about.
Illustrates what is possible with aggressive EVIP, and why BIG AUTO would fight a level playing field tooth and nail
Tesla Model S is Norway’s best-selling vehicle, outsells Ford’s entire range
Norway has gone electric! Norwegians registered nearly 1,500 Tesla Model S electric sedans in March, beating out the entire Ford product range as well as out-pacing the runner-up Volkswagen Golf by more than double.
BY CLARKE BOWLINGNEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Wednesday, April 2, 2014, 5:08 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/te...-outsells-ford-entire-range-article-1.1743470
- - - Updated - - -
As someone who’s a fiscal conservative, my friend is oddly rather pleased that the government has seen the light on green subsidies — even if it’s at his expense. It’s not as if taking away the subsidy is going to change his lifestyle. He’ll still be able to afford the odd bottle of vintage wine and the occasional cigar.
In Red-What the article is really about.
Jaff
Active Member
Trev Page
Member
I'm with mknox on the rebate is about incentivizing the behaviour, it should not be about the car. The problem here is that the Model S is the best selling EV in Canada because it's "compelling" (to use Elon's words) and thus skews the numbers for the rebates and public opinion. Since the Model S purchase price comes up all the time it's seen as the "rich" are the only ones getting the rebate which is simply not true.
Ktowntslafan
Member
Ya, but ALL them Norwegians is rich, ain't they...
I'm sure Norway has stats on that and are willing to share.
Why are we reinventing the wheel? Pick up the phone and call Norway...how did you do it?
http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf
It's all right there...and I shared w politicians pre COP21 along w contact info for Noreweigan representatives.
It's not hard.
Jaff
Active Member
Agree totally, Norway is the template for "doing it right" with respect to incentivizing EV's / dis-incentivizing ICE vehicles...not like some other governments we know...
Norway also manages their profit from the sale of their oil properly...not like some other governments we know...
Norwegians should be pleased with their government's handling of these issues...ours, on the other hand are an embarrassment!
Norway also manages their profit from the sale of their oil properly...not like some other governments we know...
Norwegians should be pleased with their government's handling of these issues...ours, on the other hand are an embarrassment!
Ktowntslafan
Member
Here's what California has implemented.
If Libs are concerned about giving rebates to billionaires, this solves it. If Libs are on the take from Big Auto, this fix will never see the light of day.
Tesla needs to be part of the program.
Please share.
California introduces income-based EV rebates
If Libs are concerned about giving rebates to billionaires, this solves it. If Libs are on the take from Big Auto, this fix will never see the light of day.
Tesla needs to be part of the program.
Please share.
California introduces income-based EV rebates
beeeerock
Active Member
Good find. I've sent the link to my two local MLA's, asking whether they'd consider this idea to replace the MSRP cap... which would seem to have been designed to benefit car dealers only.
GM dropped the MSRP on the remaining 2016 ELR's, so that overpriced vehicle with all-electric range between zero and 65 km depending on conditions now qualifies for a $13,000 rebate. The Volvo XC90 PHEV is expected to qualify for $14,000 off once the site is updated. This is despite only having a toy battery of 7 kWh. Don't get me wrong, it could be a good car for some people depending on needs, but to offer $14,000 on a $74,999 car with 31 km aer and only $3,000 on a Tesla is obscene.
If there's any justice, exchange rates will be more favorable soon and TM will be able to offer a Canada special $74,999 vehicle as others have first suggested.
If there's any justice, exchange rates will be more favorable soon and TM will be able to offer a Canada special $74,999 vehicle as others have first suggested.
beeeerock
Active Member
From the BC program 'fine print'...
Vehicle Incentive Amounts
BC Ministry of Enery and Mines has established incentive amounts based on vehicle type and battery capacity. Battery electric, fuel cell vehicle and plug in hybrids above a 15kWh capacity are eligible for the full incentive amount up to $5,000 (+ up to $1,000 fuelling for fuel cell vehicles). Plug in hybrids below 15kWh but above 4kWh are eligible for incentives up to $2,500.
With the cap at $77k, Tesla is out of the running. But all the joke PHEV's are eligible for $2,500 to $5,000 (the maximum for any car).
When the Premier shows up at the press conference driving a PHEV with the president of the New Car Dealers Association, it's pretty clear that the fix is in.
Vehicle Incentive Amounts
BC Ministry of Enery and Mines has established incentive amounts based on vehicle type and battery capacity. Battery electric, fuel cell vehicle and plug in hybrids above a 15kWh capacity are eligible for the full incentive amount up to $5,000 (+ up to $1,000 fuelling for fuel cell vehicles). Plug in hybrids below 15kWh but above 4kWh are eligible for incentives up to $2,500.
With the cap at $77k, Tesla is out of the running. But all the joke PHEV's are eligible for $2,500 to $5,000 (the maximum for any car).
When the Premier shows up at the press conference driving a PHEV with the president of the New Car Dealers Association, it's pretty clear that the fix is in.
Im willing to take mine with no auto pilot, no dual charger and if tesla could build it without supercharger access I'd be okay with that just to keep the price low .....(shhhh)
The Volvo XC90 doesn't qualify for the $14000, your point is still valid but just a little less of an injustice at $8460
Ktowntslafan
Member
Wanted to make a video in support of Tesla here in Ontario.. It doesn't make any sense to reduce/limit the rebate for a company that's leading the way in sustainable transportation.
Thanks, at least the playing field is slightly less uneven. I must have been thinking about the fix-it-again Tony minivan that will qualify for $14,000 since its battery is a whopping 16 kWh.
mrElbe
Active Member
Good dissertation. To make it simple and fair: To promote electric vehicles, base the rebate or incentive amount on pure electric range of the vehicle by a multiplier of 30. So, for example:
BMW i8 = $ 840
Nissan Leaf = $ 4050
Kia Soul = $ 4470
Porsche Panamera = $ 780
Tesla Model S = $ 12,780
*above battery ranges are taken from Plug'n Drive 2015 booklet
This would give people and manufacturers incentive to strive for increased electric battery range.[/QUOTE]
I just read the Ontario policy today in detail, and it's very clear that the MSRP is EXCLUSIVE of options, so all Tesla needs to do in Canada is to create a different way of pricing the cars.
Here's a quote from the actual program documentation: "MSRP is the base value of each model and trim level exclusive of options, taxes, PDI and freight."
So why not make a Model S that comes standard with RWD, 70 kWh battery, and strip out a HUGE number of features so that nobody would ever buy this car. Ever.
Then add back all of the options that currently come standard along with supercharging and make the price equivalent to whatever it is today. In a sense, in Canada, just don't call the cars 90D or whatever. Call them all Model S. They can still be branded the same on the trunk, but just don't brand them as different versions of the car on the website. Market OPTIONS, not different models. Same cars, same prices, just repackage the offer so the MSRP of the base car is less than $75k. That would meet the rules as outlined by the Ontario government.
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