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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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- Tesla Inc.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
The post I am quoting from brings up, in my opinion, one of the most important points made in this thread to date.
During the 691 HP controversy, I pointed out many times that Tesla did nothing to correct what they would later consider to be incorrect information about the P85D producing 691 HP.
Now as bad as this is with respect to the P90DL, and the information Tesla chose not to correct, it is far, FAR more significant as it relates to the P85D launch. Here's why.
There were a few car magazines, and maybe even a little mainstream media writing and talking about the P90DL. But that was nothing--NOTHING compared to how much press the P85D launch received! The news of Tesla's new halo car at the time, with dual motors, all-wheel drive, and "self-driving capabilities" was HUGE news and was covered a great deal in not just the auto magazines, but in the mainstream media. And most of that coverage included the fact that the car was capable of producing 691 horsepower. Not "Motor Horsepower", as if that would have even made a difference to most people's understanding. Just plain horsepower.
Tesla did nothing to correct any of this incorrect information. In my opinion, at that point they took on the responsibility for misleading potential customers.
If this does become a class action, I think it will be easy to demonstrate that the public perception was that the car made 691 HP.
If I were representing the plaintiffs, I'd hire a market research or surveying firm to do the following:
Take one group of 100 or 200 people, show them nothing but Tesla official information, and then ask them how many HP the P85D is capable of. Perhaps ask some other questions too, like is it rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, or all wheel drive, how many motors does it have, etc., to be able to disqualify any respondents who were answering without reading anything. If enough of these people indicate that they think the car makes 691 horsepower...
You could take another similarly sized group, and ask the same questions. With the second group, show them the Tesla information, but also allow them access to all the articles, video stories, etc., that were out at the time. I'm fairly certain this group will be even more likely to answer "691 horsepower."
If you really want to make sure both groups are motivated, add a "bonus" to whatever the participants are getting paid for their time. So if they are being paid, say $50 or $100 to participate in the research, pay them a bonus of $100 or $200 if they get the answer right. Heck--you could make the bonus $500 or $1000 if you're not afraid that will give something away, because none of them are likely to get the answer right. (The right answers would be "We Can't Tell" or "691 Motor Horsepower."
You could take this a step further.
In my examples, the participants in the above two groups would be average people, perhaps with the means to actually purchase a six-figure car, though perhaps that is not necessary. You could add a third group made up of car enthusiasts who were not familiar with Tesla or the P85D, and see how differently they answer. My guess is more of them may pick up on the difference between motor horsepower and horsepower, but not all that many more.
The 691 HP issue and countergate are closely related. I think Tesla is at a critical juncture, and what happens next is really significant. None of this is going away on its own.
Do you have that same opinion when the premium paid vs. the next lower down model was for <= 10% power improvement?
Did you get any clarification as to which models have this "Cut"
If this is true im Wondering if the "wire bonds" in battery are enhanced for P100D.
I was told this applies to all performance models but without any clarification as to when where or why.
Not known definitively. However with new P100DL + disclaimer, you can be sure they are counting.
Old Man Mike
Member
Wow, I take one day to respond and see 5 pages of posts have already been made. Anyway, you are correct about just turning on MB giving an immediate boost. However the amount can vary from almost none to over 20kw. V3 cars will see the most at above 90% charge while a P85D ludicrous upgraded car will see almost none. Here is the latest SOC vs Power chart which shows the effect (dotted line to solid line):
I've added the new Ludicrous Plus which is a Max Batt Pwr On curve since the car has to be in that mode for Plus to show.
As always, additional data points are welcomed in this thread: Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp
SDRick
Active Member
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I am not understanding the chart, but I don't see a P85DL dotted line to represent the P85DL with max power off.
Old Man Mike
Member
That's because no one was able to show a difference if compared at the same temperature. The test would be:
1) Max Battery On and ready
2) Do a launch
3) Max Battery OFF
4) Do a launch
If the power is the same for step 2 and 4 then there is not an overall increase for Max Battery Pwr setting; it just provides a rapid warming of the battery up to temperature.
It should be obvious but all the curves are the BEST data performance reported for the SOC and models/modes. For example, the Max Battery OFF curves are still with the battery near optimum temperature.
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Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Has anyone thought we may just be blowing this out of proportion? And if it happens to you are you seriously going to miss that tenth of a second missed in 1/4 mile or to 60. Probably not unless you are using the car for like kid on tesla racing channel. The customer service rep verbally told me the chances of this happening to me are slim and the average spirited driver would never see these power reductions. Likely, if they did it would be an almost unnoticeable reduction in power. It's the guy that's doing wot runs back to back to back all the time he says will eventually get hit hard. Which I agree would be considered abuse. Remember guys this IS a luxury performance sedan.
Now I agree and forsee a class action lawsuit if MANY tesla owners experience drastic power reductions in excess of .5 Dec off 60 times or something crazy. If more than lets say 5% of P owners that can't be proven to have abused their vehicle are hit like that then there is a design flaw. But again only 1 out of 1000s of P vehicles has been proven to be effected so far right?
Tech Guy, can you please provide your driving habits? How many miles driven and time owned? Try to be realistic and accurate in explanation as possible.
Oh, so it's okay if it only affects "a few of us" in the near future?
So if we hit the trigger in year 3 or 4, that's okay?
Or if they move the trigger point, that's okay too?
How could you possibly not see the slippery slope involved with TAKING SOMETHING AWAY that was already paid for?!?
Wow, just wow.
Perhaps it's because the TRC and DragTimes cars on YouTube are regularly replaced, likely with trade in offers that are very, very generous, so generous that they cannot be refused.
That's not by accident but because it's essential that such high-vis cars not be emasculated in front of such a large audience . . . .
Also ask those same 100 people if they believe the car at some point in the future could be summoned from LA to NY based on this:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk says you can summon your Tesla across country in two years
"Eventually, your Tesla will be able to drive anywhere across the country to meet you, " not "Eventually a Tesla you buy in the future with AP4 will be able to ...."
It's just Tesla's M.O. they overreach expectations and promises to get headlines, then disappoint on delivery.
Sad really, as the cars are very special without the excessive hype.
I don't think that's it. The TRC kid is racing the same v3 car he had last summer (first to go under 11) and Dragtimes is one of us @fiksegts who has been very honest about the performance of his v1. It is possible, that TRC is still on 7.1 though.
I doubt it is to get headlines. It is more likely to motivate employees and to explore the boundaries of what's possible.
Organizations that set mediocre goals and always achieve them, will be left behind by organizations that set aggressive, even outlandish, goals and sometimes miss them.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Setting lofty goals is very different from promising potential customers features that then never get delivered.
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