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Patents

Discussion in 'Future Cars' started by jeffreycpacfa, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. jeffreycpacfa

    jeffreycpacfa Member

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    Could anyone point me to a thread (or comment) pertaining to Tesla patents.

    It is my understanding the patents were "open sourced" several months ago. Given the increase in competitive EV activity why isn't there chat about Tesla reclaiming these (if possible)?
     
  2. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    They don't want to reclaim* them. They want the entire EV market to expand. More info here: All Our Patent Are Belong To You | Tesla Motors





    * They didn't "give them up" so there is no "reclaim". Tesla retained all ownership of the patents... they simply stated that anyone, including other auto manufacturers, can use them. Word for word: "Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology."
     
  3. jeffreycpacfa

    jeffreycpacfa Member

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    Ok - since "Tesla retained all ownership of the patents" - why not pre-condition use of these "patents" with other auto manufacturers that benefit Tesla ... specifically requiring them to use the supercharger network (which could defray Tesla costs)?
     
  4. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    How would having other manufacturer's cars use the SC network benefit Tesla Motors? There is no revenue generated, and there is a cost (electricity).
     
  5. jeffreycpacfa

    jeffreycpacfa Member

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    SC network could charge non-Tesla EVs - assuming the EVs charging technology is Tesla compatible. Your comment "they (Tesla) want the entire EV market to expand" is noble, but not a capitalist business plan in the short run. Yes, you could opine this isn't long term thinking ... but with mounting Tesla costs (sc network, warranties, multiple car lines, gigafactory) it will be more difficult to accomplish a future including Tesla without patent tools imo.
     
  6. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    Demonstrably, Elon disagrees:

    Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

    When I started out with my first company, Zip2, I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors. After Zip2, when I realized that receiving a patent really just meant that you bought a lottery ticket to a lawsuit, I avoided them whenever possible.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I had heard that they never want a Tesla customer to be annoyed that a non-Tesla is "slow charging" at a supercharging station, forcing them to wait.
    Many EVs have batteries that could not support 100kW+ supercharging, partly due to their much smaller battery pack, so it could really limit what other vehicles could conceivably be permitted to share SC resources.
     
  8. jeffreycpacfa

    jeffreycpacfa Member

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    What does "good faith" mean?
     
  9. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    It has specific meaning in law, to wit:

    Good faith (Latin: bona fides) is fair and open dealing in human interactions. This is often thought to require sincere, honest intentions or belief, regardless of the outcome of an action. Some Latin phrases lose their literal meaning over centuries, this is not the case with bona fides, it is still widely used and interchangeable with its generally accepted modern day translation of good faith. It is an important concept within law, philosophy, and business. The opposed concepts are bad faith, mala fides (duplicity) and perfidy(pretense). In contemporary English, the usage of bona fides (note the "s") is synonymous with credentials and identity.

    In law, bona fides denotes the mental and moral states of honesty and conviction regarding either the truth or the falsity of a proposition, or of a body of opinion; likewise regarding either the rectitude or the depravity of a line of conduct. As a legal concept bona fidesis especially important in matters of equity (see Contract).[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] In contract law, the implied covenant of good faith is a general presumption that the parties to a contract will deal with each other honestly and fairly, so as not to destroy the right of the other party or parties to receive the benefits of the contract. In insurance law, the insurer's breach of the implied covenant may give rise to a legal liability known as insurance bad faith.
    Most U.S. jurisdictions view breaches of implied covenants of good faith and fair dealing solely as a variant of breach of contract. Linguistically, in the U.S., American English usage of bona fides applies it as synonymous with credentials, professional background, and documents attesting a person's identity, which is not synonymous with bona fide occupational qualifications. More recently, other common law countries have begun to adopt good faith as a general principle. In the UK, the High Court in Yam Seng Pte Ltd v Int Trade Corp Ltd[SUP][6][/SUP] expressed this preference. In Canada, the Supreme Court declared in Bhasin v. Hrynew that good faith was a general organising principle.[SUP][7][/SUP]
     
  10. jeffreycpacfa

    jeffreycpacfa Member

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    A non-Tesla vehicle using a Tesla patent would assumably have similar kW compatibility. Tesla could then charge the non-Tesla EV using the SC facility/services.

    Win/win: #1) EV expansion using Tesla patented technology + #2) co-sharing SC network costs.

    What am I missing?
     

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