Power "Quality" Protection with Powerwall

[westom]

I'm sorry if I didn't make this clear. I have seen whole house protectors and I have seen your 50,000 amp minimum figure. Here is what I don't know:

Lightning is maybe 20,000 amps. It is same whether the structure is a shack, a house, or an industrial structure. That amperage is about the surge; not about what a facility consumes from a utility. 50,000 is a minimum number. A 1970s IEEE paper put numbers to it. A direct strike to nearby AC wires, in rare cases, might be 100,000 amps. That means 40,000 amps via the primary protection layer. 20,000 amps to other homes, and 40,000 into yours. A 50,000 amps protector is sufficient even for something so rare that you may never see one in your lifetime.

Of course, if any protector fails (as reported by its indicator light), then that protector was doing near zero protection. And it was grossly undersized for that venue. (Grossly undersizing is why so many buy plug-in protectors.) Therefore a 100,000 amps protector is recommended.

Also useful is neighborhood history over decades. How many had surge damage how frequently? If surges occur much more often than every seven years, another reason to consider a 100,000 amps protector - and to upgrade another item that does protection.

Everybody has crappy power (hyped by advertising, spin, lies, and emotion). That is also perfectly ideal power once numbers are included. Best and worst is same when emotions describe anything. Appliances already make 'crappy' power into ideal power. To say anything more always - as in always - requires numbers. A fact most forget because they do not learn how to obtain numbers. Then that is proof that subjective (qualitative) judgements are sufficient. Above demonstrates how to make a preliminary conclusion using layman simple numbers.

If a home has this protection, and still suffers damage, then a human mistake must be identified. Damage created by a surge is due to a human mistake. That starts with the item that does protection - earth ground. Inspection is required. For example, is it single point earth ground? Does every wire in every incoming cable (telephone, coax TV, front security gate, lawn sprinkler, invisible fence, satellite dish) make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to the same earthing electrode before entering? If not, all protection is compromised. Is any connect to a different earth ground, the household appliances can be damaged for the same reason that distant lightning strikes kill cows.

Simplest single point ground is two electrodes that are more than eight feet long. Some electricians will take one eight foot rod, cut it in half, and install both. Then neither are doing much. But he is richer.

Those electrodes must be firm. A loose rod often indicates a previous surge compromised a woefully insufficient installation. Geology is a major factor. For example one home had repeat lightning strikes to one wall. They earth lightning rods with an eight foot rod. Lightning struck that same wall again.

Those rods were only eight foot long in sand. That wall contained plumbing connected to deeper limestone. To connect to earthborne charges maybe four miles away, ligthning was using the better earthed item - plumbing. Longer electrodes were installed into deeper limestone. The lightning never struck that bathroom wall plumbing again.

Geology is another factor that is best learned and considered.

Some get so serious as to install an earthing system that surrounds the house. That has been routinely done even over 100 year ago where people were educated in science and where damage must never happen. So many Tech Notes demonstrates best earthing:

For example:
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Discontinued-Products/SW2512MC-SW4024MC2UserGuide.pdf
Page 29 (Adobe page 37):
Figure 15 is the defective Multiple Point Ground System.
Figure 16 is an essential Single Point Ground System.

The first step in inverter protection is to make sure that all equipment in the system is physically grounded at the same location. This assures that there is no voltage potential between grounds in the system (See Figure 15 and Figure 16). No voltage means no current flow through the system.
Practically speaking, this would mean connecting the generator and battery grounds together, as well as the case or "safety" grounds in the system, and then attaching all to the same earth grounding rod.

Or
Tech Tips - Duke Energy
then select Tech Tip 8.
Demonstrated are good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) earthing solutions.

Another solved this critical earthing problem on a rocky mountaintop:
UFER grounding system

Or Tech Note 2 from: https://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/TNCR002.pdf
Even underground wires must be addressed in an earthing solution. Even underground wires are potential incoming surge conductors.

Any wire between two buildings must connect at both ends to both building's single point ground. Otherwise a lightning strike to one building is a direct strike to appliances inside the other. That first building acts like a lightning rod connected to appliances inside a second building.

No protector does protection. Best protection on a TV cable is a hardwire that connects low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) to that single point earth ground. More in a next post.

 

[westom]

Obviously a best time to plan and install surge protection is before footing are poured. But most are sold overhyped plug-in protectors rather than learn what is required - as well understood over 100 years ago. They are victims of lies, no numbers, wild speculation, hearsay, and advertising.

Best we can do is upgrade earthing. Previous examples demonstrate how to do that. In many cases, two 'long enough' earth ground electrodes are sufficient to create a 'secondary' protection layer (geology is one critical factor). Demonstrated previously were other and better protection. All is about a single point earth ground.

A hardwire connection to earth also must be inspected. Find a bare copper, quarter inch wire that connects the breaker box to earth ground. If only one to a cold water pipe, well, that is no long considered a sufficient and effective earth ground. It must exist. But it also must be supplemented by another earth ground (all defined by the National Electrical Code).

If that hardwire connection goes up over the foundation and down to earth, then it meets code for human protection. And it compromises appliance protection. That hardwire must go through the foundation and down to electrodes. Then it has no sharp bends over the foundation. It is shorter. It is separated from non-grounding wires. It has no splices. And it must not be in metallic conduit. All that means lower impedance. Anything that lowers hardwire impedance increases appliance protection. Then 20,000 amps is more likely to find earth via those electrodes - and not destructively inside a house. Protection is about that current connecting to earth outside.

What is important is little understood even by electricians. That wire must be shorter; not thicker. It must be at least 6 AWG (often is thicker and thick enough). But every foot shorter and no sharp bends, etc significantly increases protection.

If not yet obvious, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Those plug-in protectors have no earth ground; do not even claim effective protection.

That summaries a 'secondary' protection layer. Also critical is the 'primary' protection layer.

Lightning most often strikes most exposed wire - ie a primary 13,000 or 4,000 volt wire highest on a pole. Incoming to a transformer. If an earth ground wire is stolen by a copper thief, then lightning must arc from transformer primary to secondary. That is the surge called lightning. What remains is a plasma path - a direct electrical connection from 13,000 volts to household 120/240 volts. That resulting follow-through current is why some see sparks flying from receptacles. Lightning does not have energy to create greater damage. A follow-through current does. That follow-through current exists because someone stole that utility's ground wire. Inspection is essential.

Some pictures (and definitely not text) about half way down after an expression "more safety hazards" demonstrate what to inspect:
FPL Fraud
That is your 'primary' protection system.

Above introduces what really does surge protection. It costs little money. it requires learning what was first demonstrated in elementary school science: what a Ben Franklin lightning rod does.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Any protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Each layer of protection is defined by what absorbs that energy (earth ground); not a protector. Some protection solutions (ie installed on cable TV, OTA antenna, satellite dish) do not even have protectors. But always have that low impedance connection to single point earth ground.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Westom,

I just wanted to comment on your writing content and style.

1. Change Your Writing Style.

Is English your native language? Are you an immigrant? You appear to write in a style that is very hard to understand and you use phrases that are sometimes too vague to know what you mean. Other times, you simply don't make any sense. If you can, you need to clean up how you write because your writing is at minimum confusing and unclear. Do you realize this?

You also frequently go on long tangents that have nothing to do with what the person was asking. You spout page-long rants that have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You even repeat what the other person might have said, implying that he didn't say it. Finally, stop spouting the same thing over and over again. If you said it once, you don't have to repeat it. In the same thread, you literally will say the same things over and over again up to 10 times.

For example, people have frequently asked you which one is better, series mode protection or MOV protection. You have never answered the question. You proceed to preach about whole house surge protectors for a very long time. That wasn't the question. They were asking about the best point-of-use surge protectors. Yet, you completely ignore it?

You claim that numbers need to be included in people's explanations. Not only do you not follow your own rule, but your claim also is not true. This is not how science works. Rather than numbers, you need credible independent sources and then cite them or footnote them. Further, you should disclose your true background and your stake in these questions so people are aware of any possible bias. (This is the reason why the scientific method is being thrown out right now and a replacement is being devised! It's a huge topic now.)

You also seem to omit certain relevant facts just like the surge protector manufacturers also tend to do. Not to the same extent, but mislead you do. Please stop.

2. Why is So Much at Stake for You? Act like an Adult.

I've noticed that you have never once acknowledged that you were wrong and the other person was correct. It's like your entire identity is at stake here. I assure you it's not. I and I assure you others as well here, already believe you have an above-average knowledge of this field.

Also, you constantly belittle people who are asking legitimate questions or make credible claims. I don't know if you are old enough to know this but the delivery of an answer is just as important as the answer itself. Another way to say this is that it's not just enough to be good on the inside. It's just as important to show that you are good on the outside. This is how people act in the real world.

It's obvious to everyone you love to brag. It's like all your responses are all one mental masturbation. I think it's great that you are helping other people to learn while doing this but there is one big problem. Everyone despises people who brag and it's getting in the way of your message. We learn about bragging in grade school on the playground. You just don't do it.

You also tend to ignore people's questions or sources that you appear not to know the answer to or that contradict your information. Is your ego that fragile that you can't admit that you might not know something or you might be wrong?

Finally, please please be polite. You are too brusque. As such, you are wasting people's time.

Let me say that I don't intend to be malicious here. I just want to help you become a helpful member and have others accept you.

 

[jjrandorin]

Westom,

I just wanted to comment on your writing content and style.

1. Change Your Writing Style.

Is English your native language? Are you an immigrant? You appear to write in a style that is very hard to understand and you use phrases that are sometimes too vague to know what you mean. Other times, you simply don't make any sense. If you can, you need to clean up how you write because your writing is at minimum confusing and unclear. Do you realize this?

You also frequently go on long tangents that have nothing to do with what the person was asking. You spout page-long rants that have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You even repeat what the other person might have said, implying that he didn't say it. Finally, stop spouting the same thing over and over again. If you said it once, you don't have to repeat it. In the same thread, you literally will say the same things over and over again up to 10 times.

For example, people have frequently asked you which one is better, series mode protection or MOV protection. You have never answered the question. You proceed to preach about whole house surge protectors for a very long time. That wasn't the question. They were asking about the best point-of-use surge protectors. Yet, you completely ignore it?

You claim that numbers need to be included in people's explanations. Not only do you not follow your own rule, but your claim also is not true. This is not how science works. Rather than numbers, you need credible independent sources and then cite them or footnote them. Further, you should disclose your true background and your stake in these questions so people are aware of any possible bias. (This is the reason why the scientific method is being thrown out right now and a replacement is being devised! It's a huge topic now.)

You also seem to omit certain relevant facts just like the surge protector manufacturers also tend to do. Not to the same extent, but mislead you do. Please stop.

2. Why is So Much at Stake for You? Act like an Adult.

I've noticed that you have never once acknowledged that you were wrong and the other person was correct. It's like your entire identity is at stake here. I assure you it's not. I and I assure you others as well here, already believe you have an above-average knowledge of this field.

Also, you constantly belittle people who are asking legitimate questions or make credible claims. I don't know if you are old enough to know this but the delivery of an answer is just as important as the answer itself. Another way to say this is that it's not just enough to be good on the inside. It's just as important to show that you are good on the outside. This is how people act in the real world.

It's obvious to everyone you love to brag. It's like all your responses are all one mental masturbation. I think it's great that you are helping other people to learn while doing this but there is one big problem. Everyone despises people who brag and it's getting in the way of your message. We learn about bragging in grade school on the playground. You just don't do it.

You also tend to ignore people's questions or sources that you appear not to know the answer to or that contradict your information. Is your ego that fragile that you can't admit that you might not know something or you might be wrong?

Finally, please please be polite. You are too brusque. As such, you are wasting people's time.

Let me say that I don't intend to be malicious here. I just want to help you become a helpful member and have others accept you.

I dont understand bumping a thread that is over 2 years old to berate a poster in it, regardless of the validity or not of any complaints... ESPECIALLY as someones first post.

 

[JayClark]

I dont understand bumping a thread that is over 2 years old to berate a poster in it, regardless of the validity or not of any complaints... ESPECIALLY as someones first post.

Agreed, quite the little bomb dropped as an opening introduction.