It's certainly the best case scenario if Tesla can submit for you. I just don't know for sure that Tesla can get me in Step 3 like they promised. In the meantime I will try to get myself into step 2. Getting a Developer's Key is relatively easy. The technicals for the most part can be found on the internet. But it is still difficult to submit on your own behalf. I don't blame anyone for not trying it themselves.
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Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives
- Thread starter avesraggiana
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- Powerwall Tesla Energy
I really don't want to promote applying for the rebate yourself. It's a long a tedious process and it is not guaranteed that it will work. However....unless they changed this since I applied a month ago, getting a developers key was super easy. There basically is no requirement for a homeowner. You are not a contractor or manufacturer so you don't need to fill out that part of the developer's application. I think there was a space on there where I specified that I would be hiring a licensed contractor to install a certified solar battery. At the time I applied, I wasn't sure yet if I was going with Tesla, LG Chem or Sonnen. So no special technical information needed to receive a developer's key. Getting the key is the easy part.
I'm having a third party installer apply for the SGIP rebate for me as my "administrator". The SGIP people are fine with it. Tesla has hit its phase 2 cap and the reason it shows they haven't is they have a few cancellations and those are being filled by people in line longer than (me). Other installers have not hit their cap. SGIP people also encouraged me to get my key and offer the service to others. I don't want to do that.
Dealing with TESLA on this topic has been a huge time sink and waste of energy. Their incentive group is isolated from their "concierges" and they do not communicate. Right now my installer is stuck on the application because he needs to know the Discharge Duration (Tesla told me it was 5 hours which is on the face of it false) and he'd like confirmation of the Ah, though that's less necessary.
Anyone who has the paperwork that Tesla filed for them for powerwall 2 would be a hero if he or she posted it. (personal info redacted). But if anyone can get me good numbers for Discharge Duration and Ah, I'd be grateful.
You can file for the SGIP after installation, according to my installer.
On a different topic the same lady who told me the wrong discharge duration also told me that they would be updating their app to support TOU by the end of the year.
Who's your third party installer???? I can't find anyone who will do the install for a reasonable price. I need two batteries, Tesla will charge 15K (including a main panel upgrade that I know I need). Anything more than that is a no deal for me. I can find the discharge duration. I will look to see what I have. I received it from another "self-submitter" but I believe it is standard info found on the internet. But we haven't gotten approval (or denial) so be careful. I don't want to give you this info and it ends up hurting your rebate application.
Discharge Duration hours 2.64. I never did find the Ah. The person that helped me and another self-submitter both said they used the specs Tesla makes public for the application and submitted the Tesla spec sheet in lieu of the requested worksheet. But again, I have to stress, not sure this will work. You would think that the SGIP would just enter into their database all the information from Tesla regarding their batteries so that all we have to do is enter the fact that we are installing a Tesla battery and then all the information would automatically populate the fields. But oh well that would be way to easy and efficient and we can't have that. By the way, I practically begged Tesla for the Amp Hours which they flatly denied. Makes me wonder if they even know.
Solar City is the installer. But I appointed a different installer as my "contract administrator". He will file for SGIP phase 2. I'm hoping this will work. I have some indication from SGIP that it will.
If I had Tesla doing the SGIP app there's no indication that I'd get in on Phase 3. They have no idea. The only guarantee is I won't get Phase 2 with them.
Oh okay. Thank you. Please update this post on your progress regarding SGIP. Good Luck.
Sigh. We will see what Tesla tells me about all this. I might join in with the self apply folks.
I like the idea of banding together to figure out the process. Would help everyone that way.
I like the idea of banding together to figure out the process. Would help everyone that way.
2.64 hours is consistent with what was filed on my behalf. I don't see Ah anywhere on our SGIP RRF, but the rated capacity is given as 13.2 kWh. I believe this comes from the Tesla spec sheet.
Did you get approved through the SGIP process? If so, would you be willing to share more info about what was filed on your behalf?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
I would second what Kren says about getting the Developer Key is the easy thing. Really that's only <1% of the work I have put into this so far. There are quite of bit of risks, I would like to highlight some unknowns, which are:
1. TIME.The total hours of work put in so far is to get RRF into the system, which puts me in the "wait in line" to get approved queue of 1000 applicants. The hours unaccounted for is working the ICF portion which is what happens after installation, which I view as very likely to be less work than the RRF portion. I have no clear forecast of when the paperwork will end.
2. CAPS. Developer caps could be lifted at anytime by SGIP. Then, all this work was for nothing and Tesla could have applied on one's behalf anyway. You don't know if the effort might be overturned by SGIP finally realizing how the developer cap is negatively affecting the program.
3. MONITORING. The performance monitoring (recording data for SGIP & Fed ITC) of the Powerwall is a low risk item. Tesla could be very un-nice and not allow anyone who applied for SGIP on their own to leverage Tesla's performance monitoring. There is nothing in the contract with Tesla that states that Tesla will be providing this 'cloud-type' service to me (for charge or no charge).
4. PRIVACY. Now corrected. There is a chance that your personal home address and contact info will be accidentally posted for the public developer list web page. I have received one inquiry thus far when it was leaked. I rather have folks PM me here that call my cell!
All in all, risk vs. reward... like with most investments.
For discharge:
1. I do not see a required worksheet to be performed. It is just supplied.
2. I simply copied and pasted from application (real time data) that successfully has confirmed reservation of funds.
3. The application just needs a number.
4. Of course, if I am wrong please let me know (ideally via PM to avoid clouding the forum).
For approved applicants:
1. There isn't much out there who has done the following (self-develop, Tesla install, Step 2).
2. Many of the ones who did, are deep in the queue for review. Utilities are having a slow time approving applications. Utility approves 4 then 10 more apply in a 1-2 week span.
I think if one is ALL GOOD with the time commitment then one should apply for a better value.
Last thing: Tesla is not allowed "by verbal agreements" per SGIP to complete applications work (i.e. lift a finger) for developers. You have to be actually put work into it. In other words, you have to "develop" and put that into writing a white paper. This requirement is levied on those who plan to charge the battery system with solar energy. For those who apply with no solar connected to the battery, good for you, saved yourself 25% of the effort towards applying!
I hope this helps.
Just remember, for some reason, Tesla is staunchly against their customers self-submitting. Their information conflicts with the SGIP information. SGIP offers a little more help interpreting the handbook for self-submitters, but they won't/cant help you with information you need to fill out the application.
I am betting they will remove the developer's cap. It just can't work otherwise unless they make it easier for self-submitters. Can you explain ICF? The white paper requirement that you are talking about, is that the Preliminary Data Monitoring plan? Now you have me concerned that after installation, the SGIP will require technical documents that are hard to acquire. Is that what you are saying?
Can you tell me how to initiate a Private Message to someone on this forum?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
Just click the members' name under their profile picture to reveal their profile. There's a link for "start a conversation."
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
The Incentive Claim Form "ICF" is what is filled out after installation to get the rebate payment. You have to prove interconnection, data recording, etc. I can imagine some technical docs may be difficult, but not impossible to acquire. One can backtrack and get interconnect documents from the utility, and one can get permits submitted against your home from the City. If the documents for ICF part of the regular disclosures of an "installer" (Tesla), then it shouldn't be a problem. Of course, there certainly must be some fine detail I am surely missing. I seem to see deliverables such as cost break down, which is one of many question marks. As an aside, those that are attached to solar, are lumped together (categorized) with the large commercial with overlapping requirements. I hope there aren't special ICF requirements levied. I will figure it out when I get there.
Also, I firmly believe that after the RRF confirmation, Tesla will be more able to provide SGIP supporting documentation because the conflict of interest won't pertain. The conflict was that Tesla was reported to violate the spirit of the SGIP rule/handbook by running around the cap by filling out all the forms for SGIP for a self developer. If you troll the developer list vs. real time data, you'll see a 40-50 homeowner developers yet only a handful of them actually apply. I believe many homeowner developers were dissuaded because Tesla was forced to stop filling out paperwork for them. In fact, Tesla directs their concierges to not pass certain types of documents to customers.
The ENTIRE SGIP application is simply not just the application alone. It is made up of the online form which take a few mock applications to figure out. From that you realize you need supporting documentation and research to fill in the cryptic blanks. Often one needs to refer to the handbook and ask around. You must supply documentation in (*) as required and provide others as applicable to your system. Once such documentation "applicable" is a white paper called the Preliminary Monitoring Plan (PMP) (a.k.a Proposed Monitoring Plan). The PMP is the most involved document supplied by the developer, which requires motivation and an upbeat self-starting spirit to do. The second is the "home energy audit" one has to self-assess for your own home, which took hours of "why am I doing this." The most time consuming portion was getting a Tesla contract which requires virtual site visit, and signing the contract. I have agreement with Tesla to not install until I confirm funds (expect it to be a year out at the current pace of my Utility SGIP). Specifications, photos, single-line wire diagrams, and more was included as part of my write-up for the PMP. My PMP describes that I as the developer knows what this home battery is for, how it is integrated, how it offsets or helps the energy grid, how much savings I expect, and ultimately how I plan to monitor and maintain eligibility for SGIP rebate, and Federal ITC. SGIP admits that the requirements for the PMP is general (vague for me), and expects to see varying degrees of quality. I am pretty much a guinea pig, yet SGIP assures me that my progression is proper.
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Thanks so much! I think what you said is exactly what is missing from the whole self-submitting SGIP conversation. I tried to talk to Tesla and SGIP folks to figure out what it actually entails to fill out the application as a homeowner. Tesla says it is basically an impossibility and the SGIP seem to be encouraging me along. Thank you for clearing up the conflict of interest situation with Tesla. That totally makes sense. I even asked someone at Tesla if they had money to loose by me filling out my own rebate since they were so reluctant to supply documents. I also was hoping...counting on...Tesla helping more once the install was finished.
If your application doesn't pass then no homeowner's application will pass. You are very thorough. There is a template for the PMP on-line, I just changed the wording around and submitted that. It's like a college written exam all over again. Just trying write what I think the professor wants to see so I can pass and move on to the other stuff in life. Home energy audit is also on-line (I hope that is accepted). My Tesla contract included a diagram so I used that in my PMP. Aargh. I can see you submitted an "A" paper, mine is a "D+". D+ is passing right?
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