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PW3 Built-In Inverters

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Question - We are getting two PW3s installed both are the full PW3 (each with their own Inverters), will they use the Inverters in the second PW? Seems to me the second PW3 will be acting as an EXPANSION PACK (not currently available, I asked). So if I lose an Inverter in the main PW3 couldn’t they just swap them and get me back on line?

Having a spare set of Inverters on-site is is worth the $1000 extra your paying for two complete PW3s. I can’t wait for the Expansion pack so I agreed to accept two full PW3s.
 
Are you feeding the PWs with Solar? I'm not sure st the moment what the capacity of the PW3 inverter is, but my system (PW2s) needs 2 inverters, each with a 7.6 kw capacity, to take the production.
Edit- a Google search showed me a Tesla web page stating maximum solar input 20 kw.
 
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Are you feeding the PWs with Solar? I'm not sure st the moment what the capacity of the PW3 inverter is, but my system (PW2s) needs 2 inverters, each with a 7.6 kw capacity, to take the production.
Edit- a Google search showed me a Tesla web page stating maximum solar input 20 kw.
Yes, I have a 12.5 kWh Enphase system with 31 IQ8A Inverters. Again given Tesla will soon be offering a dumbed-down PW3 WITHOUT INVERTERS as EXPANSION PACKS to a PW3 with Inverters, it seems that the Inverters are not NEEDED in the downstream PWs. So the Inverters in the second PW are redundant and will not be used. If that's the case why couldn't a Service Tech cannibalize the unused Inverters should it fail in the main PW? The new EXPANSION PACK PW is claimed to be $1000 less than the normal PW. I'd gladly pay the extra $$$ now knowing those unused Inverters could be used in the future if needed.

I hope this makes sense.
 
Yes, I have a 12.5 kWh Enphase system with 31 IQ8A Inverters. Again given Tesla will soon be offering a dumbed-down PW3 WITHOUT INVERTERS as EXPANSION PACKS to a PW3 with Inverters, it seems that the Inverters are not NEEDED in the downstream PWs. So the Inverters in the second PW are redundant and will not be used. If that's the case why couldn't a Service Tech cannibalize the unused Inverters should it fail in the main PW? The new EXPANSION PACK PW is claimed to be $1000 less than the normal PW. I'd gladly pay the extra $$$ now knowing those unused Inverters could be used in the future if needed.

I hope this makes sense.
Can the expansion packs only be added to another PW3 ? or can they be added as a standalone storage system to a solar panel/system.
 
Can the expansion packs only be added to another PW3 ? or can they be added as a standalone storage system to a solar panel/system.
As I understand it, they get added (daisy chain) to one main PW3 with Inverters They say they are $1000 cheaper because there are no Inverters. But as usual, Tesla hasn't released much info other than a Q3/Q4 release. I'm in the design phase of my ESS and know I want at least 2 PW3s but might spring for 3. Even my installer (an authorized Tesla PW installer doesn't have much info). They are trying to get Tesla to respond to their and my questions but so far radio silence. Hence my plea here on the TMC.

So given I want to move now on the installation I suspect all the PW3s will have built-in Inverters. Whether or not I need them.
 
As I understand it, they get added (daisy chain) to one main PW3 with Inverters They say they are $1000 cheaper because there are no Inverters. But as usual, Tesla hasn't released much info other than a Q3/Q4 release. I'm in the design phase of my ESS and know I want at least 2 PW3s but might spring for 3. Even my installer (an authorized Tesla PW installer doesn't have much info). They are trying to get Tesla to respond to their and my questions but so far radio silence. Hence my plea here on the TMC.

So given I want to move now on the installation I suspect all the PW3s will have built-in Inverters. Whether or not I need them.
I would think so, if the DC expansion units are not yet available. You would have plenty of inversion capacity - one on each PW and the micro inverters. Begs the question why not just get PW2 instead of PW3? Especially if there is a price difference.
But my neighbor just had solar panels installed, with micro inverters. His Installer suggested battery addition to his system as PW3 also. I assumed the 3 was discussed due to the ability of one PW3 to provide sufficient output to do whole house backup, and add DC expansion later. If that's the rationale, you could add one PW3 now, backup existing load center to power whole house, and add capacity as DC expansion units are produced.
 
i think if the pw3 has LFP, it makes it worth the upgrade from pw2 ?
I would think so, if the DC expansion units are not yet available. You would have plenty of inversion capacity - one on each PW and the micro inverters. Begs the question why not just get PW2 instead of PW3? Especially if there is a price difference.
But my neighbor just had solar panels installed, with micro inverters. His Installer suggested battery addition to his system as PW3 also. I assumed the 3 was discussed due to the ability of one PW3 to provide sufficient output to do whole house backup, and add DC expansion later. If that's the rationale, you could add one PW3 now, backup existing load center to power whole house, and add capacity as DC expansion units are produced
 
UPDATE: After my installer contacted Tesla they confirmed that as it stands today the PW3 is NOT COMPATIBLE with my Enphase IQ8A Micro-Inverters. They spoke with Tesla and they indicated that option is due in Q4. I have little faith in Tesla's timelines so I can either wait or go with Enphase 5Ps.

He's working up quotes for 5P's.
 
It's been a couple of years.... but I looked fairly heavily into the Enphase battery offerings in 2021. The 5P appears to be quite similar, with perhaps a bit better specs when it comes to output. In comparison to PW, the Enphase did not meet my goals. There was a limit of 25 kwh per installation, and the 5P appears to say 20 kwh. If you want to target more, you might ask your installer about the possibility of installing 5Ps now and adding PWs later. Or, make the decision later - if my 2022-2023 installation experienceis any indication, you'll know if Tesla produces the compliant PW before your system gets into operation anyway.
 
It's been a couple of years.... but I looked fairly heavily into the Enphase battery offerings in 2021. The 5P appears to be quite similar, with perhaps a bit better specs when it comes to output. In comparison to PW, the Enphase did not meet my goals. There was a limit of 25 kwh per installation, and the 5P appears to say 20 kwh. If you want to target more, you might ask your installer about the possibility of installing 5Ps now and adding PWs later. Or, make the decision later - if my 2022-2023 installation experienceis any indication, you'll know if Tesla produces the compliant PW before your system gets into operation anyway.
 
Again given Tesla will soon be offering a dumbed-down PW3 WITHOUT INVERTERS as EXPANSION PACKS to a PW3 with Inverters, it seems that the Inverters are not NEEDED in the downstream PWs. So the Inverters in the second PW are redundant and will not be used.
That isn't the way it works. Each PW3 uses its own inverter to supply power to your home. So, with two PW3s you could run up to 23kW of loads while the power out, where with only one PW3 and the future expansion pack you could only run 11.5kW when the power is out.

If you have an all electric home and/or have large AC units in addition to charging EVs you would likely need at least two full PW3s to be able to run everything when the power is out. (My peak usage is about 28kW, so two full PW3s wouldn't even cover being able to run everything with the grid down.)
 
We are a grid-tied system on NEM and over producing, so my monthly electric bill will always be ZERO but sadly I will gift to AMEREN ILLINOIS 2 or 3K kWh back to them. I have tried USING all the power I make but the wife complains the house is to COLD so Inhad to set the thermostat back to 75F.

So we will hold off and see what the future brings. Plus I was told at the recent Enphase Shareholders Meeting their CEO pulled an Elon and hinted at some great new products in the pipeline.
 
i think if the pw3 has LFP, it makes it worth the upgrade from pw2 ?
Depends on some circumstances. LFP doesn't experience the same rate of capacity reduction due to cold temps, but if your PWs are installed in a controlled temp place (mine are) that isn't a factor. In the case they were not, is a reason I was looking at some LFP battery choices a couple of years ago. Those batteries had other attributes that made then not meet my goals, so I concluded a Tesla system was one of my few feasible choices. There were other reasons along with that... but PW3 was not a consideration then, so I never had a deep dive into that comparison. And I determined that interior basement location was the solution.
PW3 biggest draw with my current understanding is it's output level and integrated inverter, simplifying a system and especially a single PW config. system. Due to the output level, a single PW system can configure as whole house backup, with multiple boxes eliminated - up to 2 inverters, a backup panel, and maybe the Gateway as well if I'm not mistaken. And then DC expansion units can be added later to increase storage capacity to a level the major non Tesla battery systems can't match, to my knowledge.
I know you didn't mention those non Tesla battery systems, but when I was looking at LFP batteries that was the availability. If battery installation is outdoors, and in a colder climate, it's another significant plus I'd say for PW3. If I had to locate them outside, I'd want PW3 due to LFP chemistry.
 
That isn't the way it works. Each PW3 uses its own inverter to supply power to your home. So, with two PW3s you could run up to 23kW of loads while the power out, where with only one PW3 and the future expansion pack you could only run 11.5kW when the power is out.

If you have an all electric home and/or have large AC units in addition to charging EVs you would likely need at least two full PW3s to be able to run everything when the power is out. (My peak usage is about 28kW, so two full PW3s wouldn't even cover being able to run everything with the grid down.)
A house like mine, which is all electric, with one load center, would get across the threshold for whole house backup configuration with a single PW3. I've only seen momentary load demand over 12 kw, (kicking on the heat pump compressor) and a PW3 would do that. I could have done the same with 2 PW2, but getting across the threshold and getting squarely into that space are not quite the same - the reason I went to 3 PW2 initially. My heat pump is a single 2 ton unit, house sq ft about 1200. And I only charge the car on excess solar, or from grid power seasonally when I'm going to be using some grid anyhow.
But with PW2 its AC going to the Gateway via PW inverter as well.
 
It's been a couple of years.... but I looked fairly heavily into the Enphase battery offerings in 2021. The 5P appears to be quite similar, with perhaps a bit better specs when it comes to output. In comparison to PW, the Enphase did not meet my goals. There was a limit of 25 kwh per installation, and the 5P appears to say 20 kwh. If you want to target more, you might ask your installer about the possibility of installing 5Ps now and adding PWs later. Or, make the decision later - if my 2022-2023 installation experienceis any indication, you'll know if Tesla produces the compliant PW before your system gets into operation anyway.

As the resident Enphase battery owner on this Tesla forum, I don't think the 5P even existed back in 2021. The main negative in the past with Enphase was really cost vs. PW and power output was lower if you only had 1 or 2 batteries (like 3.84kW max output for 1x 10 kWh battery). For me, 2x 10s can drive 7.68kW.

Back in 2021, I got their older Encharge 10 batteries (10 kWh), but having originally wanted the Tesla PW2, I did my research and went with Enphase for many reasons. I think the Enphase battery (consumer) solution is actually much better than what Tesla offers.

Back then, I think the Enphase limit was like 60 kWh total batteries, but I've seen videos and I think you can stack up to 80 kWh now of 5P batteries. They also come with a 15 year warranty vs. 10 for Tesla and probably similar to PW3, is air cooled being LFP so no need to worry about pumps or whatever breaking that you read about (or it leaking coolant). There is no coolant w/ Enphase. It's also quieter as there are less/no moving parts like a pump in the PW2. With the Tesla PW3, you are also forced to use string inverters if you don't want to go that route. You may also have utility export limits (I read that here).

The 5P battery is 5 kWh. Also, if you want a generator, that works right now from Enphase to charge up your batteries if no solar and you can use batteries at night, etc...They are working on V2H for 2025 I think. There is a snazzy video on their website.

I've also called Enphase support to resolve cases and you can even take all their university courses and get full installer access to your stuff.

Unless you have to be in the Tesla eco-system since you own all Tesla cars, I think Enphase is simply the better product in the consumer space.

And yes, I am biased.

Last thing I remembered is I read Tesla keeps turning off and on your solar generation (someone else can probably explain this better) since it can't tweak the inverter frequency down to miniscule amounts or something, but Enphase doesn't do this.
 
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UPDATE: I'm confused and frustrated. My installer just called, it seems there was a "failure to communicate" between me, the sales rep, and their engineers. While I asked for PW3, the sales rep quoted me pricing for PW2, because that's what popped up on his computer as compatible with my system then when he submitted it to the engineering team for review, design, and formal pricing, the disconnect was discovered. RAT's

The current PW3 IS NOT COMPATIBLE with my Enphase IQ8A micro-inverters. There is an updated PW3 in the works that will work with AC inverters but it's not slated for release until Q4. Or that's what they were told when they spoke to their Tesla rep.

So I have a few options:

1. Do nothing now and see what's in the pipeline. In the meantime, we are on NEM and our system is OVER PRODUCING and I'm banking credits for future use. So all is not lost.

2. Go with Enphase 5P's (was quoted a price for 3, asking for pricing for 4) but mounting space is getting tight with 4.

3. My installer rep mentioned the PW2 again, saying it IS AC COMPATIBLE, and would come in about $3500 less than FOUR 5Ps netting me 27 kWh vs 20 kWh of power but some of the other numbers are fuzzy like continuous and surge. I added $5K to the original estimate just to give a number to play with. The main reason for the price delta is my utility gives a $300 per kWh CASH REBATE so I'd get $8,100 for two PW2s vs $6,000 for four 5Ps.

My goal is the whole house back including limited use of our 3-ton Lennox AC.

So I'm back to the drawing board.
 
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