Hey,
So the website says 259miles, just wondering hat people are getting in the UK on normal motorway/driving/speeds
Thanks
So the website says 259miles, just wondering hat people are getting in the UK on normal motorway/driving/speeds
Thanks
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Real world MX 75D Range
- Thread starter Fellsteruk
- Start date
Tiger
Active Member
Depends much on your driving style, whether you speed/overtake a lot, or whether you piggyback/draft other traffic. @Troy I wonder if there is a real-world collected stats spreadsheet or graph/survey (there is a link to some stats) that shows real range vs kwh spent in different conditions, for example hot/cool/cold climate and driving styles chill/normal/sporty, S/X/3.
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Sadly that's the government / whatever comparison figure, not realistic at all
I put some models into A Better Route Planner at 20C with no wind, 70MPH ... probably close to ideal weather.
I picked a journey that was all motorway and distance to destination was close to max range for the [i.e. shortest range vehicle] MX 75D
My MS P90D came up with 340 Wh/mile Range = 217. I would say that my range was 220 miles, so ABPR was pretty close, and I would expect ABRP to be pretty representative for all models.
Bare in mind that your normally overnight charge would be to 90% and, of that range, you will want to leave some "just in case" in the tank - 20 miles maybe, to calculate your normal daily-range.
Of course if you are going somewhere you can charge to 100% shortly before you set off (IMO: its not something to get concerned about, I aim to only charge over 90% if I will then set off within a few hours, and to not leave the car sitting at > 90%, nor < 10%, for prolonged periods).
Right: the ABRP figures were:
MX75D 386 Wh/mile, Range 169 miles
MX100D 386 Wh/mile, Range 229
MXP100D 402 Wh/mile, Range 220
MS75 324 Wh/mile, Range 203
MS75D 324 Wh/mile, Range 203
MS100D 324 Wh/mile, Range 274
Slightly surprised that the Wh/mile, which ABPR provided, are the same for D/non-D ... and that the 100 is the same as the 75 (100 being heavier), so there may be some wiggle-room in there
MS P100D 340 Wh/mile, Range 260
MS P90D 340 Wh/mile, Range 217
If I go on a trip that is more than 160 miles I charge to 100% (even on the perfect Summer's day). Always the risk that I get asked to detour for some errand or other! and on one occasions I was late and on the way there used up 50%, wasn't worried as I knew I was not in a hurry on the way back, but I drove back through torrential rain and arrived back home with only 1% left
for a total journey of 177 miles (temperature was 10C on return journey, very wet, cruise set to 70MPH, dual carriageway 90% of the journey, 465 Wh/Mile)As a foul weather range test I set ABPR for 5C, 10 MPH wind, and rain:
MX75D Range 132 miles
MX100D Range 179 miles
MSP90D Range 184 miles
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Might was well have the M3 figures too:
M3SR 247 Wh/mile, Range = 190 miles
M3LR 19" 286 Wh/mile, Range = 244
M3LR Aero 247 Wh/mile, Range = 282
M3SR 247 Wh/mile, Range = 190 miles
M3LR 19" 286 Wh/mile, Range = 244
M3LR Aero 247 Wh/mile, Range = 282
That anecdote does point out a key point not often mentioned on these forums: heavy rain is the most troublesome cause of shorter-than-expected range.
People talk a lot about cold weather, but in fact in Model S/X in UK climate that's mainly a 'departure tax' to get the car warmed up (and you can potentially eliminate most of that by pre-heating if you start from a location with charging). Once actually on the road, what we in the UK call cold weather is only a few percent worse than warm weather and easily offset by driving a little slower.
Rain on the other hand is non-linear: light rain makes almost no difference at all, but once there's enough on the road that the tyres are having to pump it out sideways (as spray) that takes a large amount of energy, and it doesn't seem to be much improved by a small reduction in speed. And of course light rain turning into a downpour is something that can easily happen while en-route.
Still, I don't mean to spread doom and gloom about this. Normally you have multiple charging options, and you aren't pushing 100% range anyhow. It is wise to never plan a journey that needs 100% range, but if things are going well on the day you can choose to skip a charging stop and use all the range.
In fact, I think we've been slightly on the wrong track with these discussions about whether the larger battery is worth paying the extra for: it's not really about journeys you can't make in the small battery car, nor about the amount of time saved on a long journey, more that the large battery car means a larger proportion of your journeys fall into the "just don't need to think about it" category rather than needing planning.
People talk a lot about cold weather, but in fact in Model S/X in UK climate that's mainly a 'departure tax' to get the car warmed up (and you can potentially eliminate most of that by pre-heating if you start from a location with charging). Once actually on the road, what we in the UK call cold weather is only a few percent worse than warm weather and easily offset by driving a little slower.
Rain on the other hand is non-linear: light rain makes almost no difference at all, but once there's enough on the road that the tyres are having to pump it out sideways (as spray) that takes a large amount of energy, and it doesn't seem to be much improved by a small reduction in speed. And of course light rain turning into a downpour is something that can easily happen while en-route.
Still, I don't mean to spread doom and gloom about this. Normally you have multiple charging options, and you aren't pushing 100% range anyhow. It is wise to never plan a journey that needs 100% range, but if things are going well on the day you can choose to skip a charging stop and use all the range.
In fact, I think we've been slightly on the wrong track with these discussions about whether the larger battery is worth paying the extra for: it's not really about journeys you can't make in the small battery car, nor about the amount of time saved on a long journey, more that the large battery car means a larger proportion of your journeys fall into the "just don't need to think about it" category rather than needing planning.
Thanks guys. I guess a real world range of 130 to 200 is t too bad I guess.
I know I’m gonna have to train myself to drive better as I’m a bit of a lead foot but as most of my driving is motorway I’m hoping my trust in AP will let me get a good average
Thanks again, I’m still convinced the 75d is for me
I know I’m gonna have to train myself to drive better as I’m a bit of a lead foot but as most of my driving is motorway I’m hoping my trust in AP will let me get a good average
Thanks again, I’m still convinced the 75d is for me
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced its such a big deal with EV, but I have no empirical evidence ... I'm an old codger now, although Spiriting Driving is still something I think I can do
but my Boy Racer days are behind me ... so with that in mind:1. The difference between a Frugal and Sports EV, in terms of Wh/mile, is not very great - maybe 250 - 400 - less than 2x. With an ICE it can easily range from 20 MPG to 70 MPG
2. The time you spend tootling along in traffic, or stopped (and would be engine running in an ICE), is very economical in an EV (i.e. even / particularly in a sporty EV), so sports and non-sports EV are much more similar in such conditions. Dunno about you, but 90% of my driving is either in traffic, or cruising along dual carriageway at 70-80
3. However, that said, "speed costs" with EV. Dropping speed by 10 MPH can make a measurable difference to range. I must admit with AP (or even TACC in ICE for that matter) I tend to select somewhere between 70 and 80 and leave it at that. When driving ICE manually my speed might well have crept up, or I pushed on more, for no particularly good reason other than that I was driving "manually"
4. Regen is a significant thing. With ICE maybe your driving style is to accelerate hard and then brake hard for the next bed, in effect "wasting" the effort you used to accelerate. With Regen you'll get that energy back, although Regen is not as strong as heavy braking, so you may retrain yourself to lift-off earlier in order not to have the use the physical brakes (most of the time). I am sure that flooring-it and using 100% regen only, for the corners, uses more Wh/mile than more gentle acceleration, but nothing like the "cost" of driving like that in an ICE.
5. Aerodynamics are key for EV, whereas with ICE (as I understand it) improvement can be had, more easily, from engine development (because ICE engine is 30-40% efficient, whereas EV motors are already in the high 90%'s). Of course not all EVs have great CD values, but Tesla's do
6. You might well enjoy the challenge of Hypermiling on mundane journeys. "How low can I get my Wh/mile and still get there in a good time" is a game that can be played ... of course, because the total Range of EV is not great, there are times when you are forced to play that game, so you get experience for that reason, if not for any other.
Our new MX 75D has been typically consuming on average between 450 and 500 Wh/mile in the recent cold weather, mainly on short local trips with a mixture of motorway, A and B roads and a little town work, all in very light traffic.
So if charging to 90% and running down to 10%, that's a range of 120-130 miles. If I knew I was going on a long trip I would charge to 100% to give 135-150 miles. I think these figures are just about worst case as short trips starting cold are pretty inefficient. On the few longer trips I've done, the average consumption has definitely fallen more toward 400 Wh/mile and it has been pretty cold weather.
So if charging to 90% and running down to 10%, that's a range of 120-130 miles. If I knew I was going on a long trip I would charge to 100% to give 135-150 miles. I think these figures are just about worst case as short trips starting cold are pretty inefficient. On the few longer trips I've done, the average consumption has definitely fallen more toward 400 Wh/mile and it has been pretty cold weather.
On a single long trip under the same conditions you would expect to do significantly better, having to incur the warm-up costs only once.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
In case helpful these are the figures that TeslaFi has logged (for my MS P90D)
[TR1]
[TD]-10 to 0 C[/TD][TD2]423.76[/TD2][TD2]79.2[/TD2][TD2]845.72[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]0 to 10 C[/TD][TD2]414.61 [/TD2][TD2]80.7 [/TD2][TD2]10832.39[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]10 to 20 C [/TD][TD2]362.91 [/TD2][TD2]90.9 [/TD2][TD2]12476.11[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]20 to 30 C [/TD][TD2]349.85 [/TD2][TD2]93.4 [/TD2][TD2]3627.83[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]30 to 40 C [/TD][TD2]342.87 [/TD2][TD2]94.8 [/TD2][TD2]238.72[/TD2][/TR1]
Drives over ONE mile
[TR1]
[TD]-10 to 0 C [/TD][TD2]390.05 [/TD2][TD2]85.3 [/TD2][TD2]360.57[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]0 to 10 C [/TD][TD2]391.55 [/TD2][TD2] 84.8 [/TD2][TD2]3274.04[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]10 to 20 C [/TD][TD2]358.22 [/TD2][TD2]91.6 [/TD2][TD2]5261.82[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]20 to 30 C [/TD][TD2]338.63 [/TD2][TD2]97.2 [/TD2][TD2]1351.34[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]30 to 40 C [/TD][TD2]321.25 [/TD2][TD2]104.2 [/TD2][TD2]67.3[/TD2][/TR1]
Drives over FIFTY miles
EDIT: Can't figure out how to get rid of the redundant white-space
| Temperature | Wh/Mile | Efficiency % | Miles Recorded |
|---|
[TR1]
[TD]-10 to 0 C[/TD][TD2]423.76[/TD2][TD2]79.2[/TD2][TD2]845.72[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]0 to 10 C[/TD][TD2]414.61 [/TD2][TD2]80.7 [/TD2][TD2]10832.39[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]10 to 20 C [/TD][TD2]362.91 [/TD2][TD2]90.9 [/TD2][TD2]12476.11[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]20 to 30 C [/TD][TD2]349.85 [/TD2][TD2]93.4 [/TD2][TD2]3627.83[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]30 to 40 C [/TD][TD2]342.87 [/TD2][TD2]94.8 [/TD2][TD2]238.72[/TD2][/TR1]
| Temperature | Wh/Mile | Efficiency % | Miles Recorded |
|---|
[TR1]
[TD]-10 to 0 C [/TD][TD2]390.05 [/TD2][TD2]85.3 [/TD2][TD2]360.57[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]0 to 10 C [/TD][TD2]391.55 [/TD2][TD2] 84.8 [/TD2][TD2]3274.04[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]10 to 20 C [/TD][TD2]358.22 [/TD2][TD2]91.6 [/TD2][TD2]5261.82[/TD2][/TR1]
[TR2]
[TD]20 to 30 C [/TD][TD2]338.63 [/TD2][TD2]97.2 [/TD2][TD2]1351.34[/TD2][/TR2]
[TR1]
[TD]30 to 40 C [/TD][TD2]321.25 [/TD2][TD2]104.2 [/TD2][TD2]67.3[/TD2][/TR1]
EDIT: Can't figure out how to get rid of the redundant white-space
Yes, as I said those are worst case figures. On the few longer trips I've done, I averaged around 400 Wh/mile in single digit ambient temperatures. That would give close to a 170 mile range from 100-10% charge. I was also cruising at around 75-80 mph, so could have been more economic by dropping to 70 mph if I had needed a little more range. But there was a Supercharger en-route so no issue there.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I normally find that a stretch of crawling-traffic on the Motorway for 10 minutes or so takes care of any range-anxiety that I might have had ... or, if I had been needing to be conservative, then after the traffic clears I find I have plenty of spare and can get a wiggle on
On my X90D I can get the rated 350Wh/mile. Setting cruise to 65mph and with a bit of motorway traffic that you can draft a little, plus slows your average a little, that 350 is achievable.
As said above, cold weather increased consumption by 50% for the first hour, after that cabin heating can push it to 400 easily, so using seat heaters is one range extending option when worried.
Agree rain seems to have a big impact.
Finally, drafting behind large objects really works, AP2 with distance on 1 can get you down to 250, partly drafting, partly going 55 mph average for the trucks. So you can basically increase battery capacity by 33%. I'm not recommending, just stating the numbers!!
ta
As said above, cold weather increased consumption by 50% for the first hour, after that cabin heating can push it to 400 easily, so using seat heaters is one range extending option when worried.
Agree rain seems to have a big impact.
Finally, drafting behind large objects really works, AP2 with distance on 1 can get you down to 250, partly drafting, partly going 55 mph average for the trucks. So you can basically increase battery capacity by 33%. I'm not recommending, just stating the numbers!!
ta
