Rear Facing Child Seats for Hong Kong

[lx3h]

Sorry guys, but the bottom (pun intended) line is that this isn't gonna happen for Hong Kong any time soon.

The law says:



and as MikeC helpfully illustrates, the Tesla Model S third row child seats have a depth of about 28cm:

View attachment 43864

To be clear: this isn't Tesla's fault, but a restriction in the transport legislation for Hong Kong. If we want the seats, the law needs to be changed (and that is a long slow process).

Regards, Mark.

Thank you so much MikeC and Mark for the research. The law kills my (probably our) hope all together.

 

[DITB]

Would it be possible to order the model S to be prepared for future changes to the law, so the day it is (hopefully) changed, it can be installed without too much bodywork?

Sorry guys, but the bottom (pun intended) line is that this isn't gonna happen for Hong Kong any time soon.

The law says:



and as MikeC helpfully illustrates, the Tesla Model S third row child seats have a depth of about 28cm:

View attachment 43864

To be clear: this isn't Tesla's fault, but a restriction in the transport legislation for Hong Kong. If we want the seats, the law needs to be changed (and that is a long slow process).

Regards, Mark.

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Either that, or could Tesla Motors be convinced to extend the seat by 10 cm, just for compliance purposes?

Since there doesn't seem to be any specific requirements as to how that seat is built, any kind of "cushion extension" up to 38 cm would seem to fulfil the typical "tick the boxes, jump the hoops" way of getting by with normal life in Hong Kong.

There is so much space, and the "+2 seats" was found to be the safest place in the car in the US NCAP test. What a shame to lose that option, because of antiquated HK requirements.

UK might have invented bureaucracy, but it's (present and former) colonies surely understood how to take it to the next level!

 

[lx3h]

Would it be possible to order the model S to be prepared for future changes to the law, so the day it is (hopefully) changed, it can be installed without too much bodywork?



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Either that, or could Tesla Motors be convinced to extend the seat by 10 cm, just for compliance purposes?

Since there doesn't seem to be any specific requirements as to how that seat is built, any kind of "cushion extension" up to 38 cm would seem to fulfil the typical "tick the boxes, jump the hoops" way of getting by with normal life in Hong Kong.

There is so much space, and the "+2 seats" was found to be the safest place in the car in the US NCAP test. What a shame to lose that option, because of antiquated HK requirements.

UK might have invented bureaucracy, but it's (present and former) colonies surely understood how to take it to the next level!

I doubt any extension will happen as the Hong Kong Model S RHD market is comparatively tiny to the rest of the world, not worth spending money on reprogramming the robots in the factory for just a percentage of a few hundred Model S.

 

[markwj]

The first cars for HK are about to enter production. They are what they are. Perhaps they can be retro-fitted at a later stage, but that would mean getting the registration document changed - not easy I suspect.

 

[DITB]

The first cars for HK are about to enter production. They are what they are. Perhaps they can be retro-fitted at a later stage, but that would mean getting the registration document changed - not easy I suspect.

Without changing the production line, how hard is it to retrofit a seat extension of 10cm? Will the seats still be able to function and fold, as designed?

It's probably more of a paperwork challenge than a practical one. If there was an option to have the car prepared for legislation changes, I wouldn't hesitate to add that to my order.

 

[lx3h]

Without changing the production line, how hard is it to retrofit a seat extension of 10cm? Will the seats still be able to function and fold, as designed?

It's probably more of a paperwork challenge than a practical one. If there was an option to have the car prepared for legislation changes, I wouldn't hesitate to add that to my order.

I would add them to mine too, but have also heard of the "heat issue" at the third row. Need to add reflecting materials to the glass and provide kids with iPads to keep them quiet during the ride.

 

[markwj]

Without changing the production line, how hard is it to retrofit a seat extension of 10cm? Will the seats still be able to function and fold, as designed?

It's probably more of a paperwork challenge than a practical one. If there was an option to have the car prepared for legislation changes, I wouldn't hesitate to add that to my order.

I think it would definitely affect the folding (talking about adding a third more to the depth of the seat), so would require a redesign of the seat. Then, these seats are tested and certified, so would presumably need to be re-certified. Then, 10cm less of the footwell depth (which is going to make it uncomfortable and probably unsafe for the kids). Overall, it really doesn't seem trivial to me.

Asking for the cars to be made so that third row seats could be added later would probably be doable, but I really don't see the law changing within at the earliest 3 years (even if we had a strong case and lobbying started today). Going back, after 3 years or more, and asking to re-register a vehicle is not going to be simple.

I was involved in the expressway permit issue - and even with an obviously out-dated and unworkable law, it still took 2 years to get it changed. At the time, it was also illegal for an EV to run the battery flat and stop on the expressway (but legal for a petrol car) as electricity was not classified as a fuel. 2 years to change that.

Up until the point that we found the legislation says 38x38cm, and the seats are 28cm, I was pushing and working hard for this. So long as the seats were in compliance with the regulations, and it was purely paperwork / bureaucracy, we had a chance to get this done. Now that we know the seats are not in compliance, it is unfortunately over for the short term.

 

[DITB]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, and thank you for all the Tesla community you have done, and are still doing.

I promise not not to bug you or the forums any more about this subject

(I'm sure I can find other annoying things to bug about in an annoying way!)

I think it would definitely affect the folding (talking about adding a third more to the depth of the seat), so would require a redesign of the seat. Then, these seats are tested and certified, so would presumably need to be re-certified. Then, 10cm less of the footwell depth (which is going to make it uncomfortable and probably unsafe for the kids). Overall, it really doesn't seem trivial to me.

Asking for the cars to be made so that third row seats could be added later would probably be doable, but I really don't see the law changing within at the earliest 3 years (even if we had a strong case and lobbying started today). Going back, after 3 years or more, and asking to re-register a vehicle is not going to be simple.

I was involved in the expressway permit issue - and even with an obviously out-dated and unworkable law, it still took 2 years to get it changed. At the time, it was also illegal for an EV to run the battery flat and stop on the expressway (but legal for a petrol car) as electricity was not classified as a fuel. 2 years to change that.

Up until the point that we found the legislation says 38x38cm, and the seats are 28cm, I was pushing and working hard for this. So long as the seats were in compliance with the regulations, and it was purely paperwork / bureaucracy, we had a chance to get this done. Now that we know the seats are not in compliance, it is unfortunately over for the short term.

 

[markwj]

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the comprehensive answer, and thank you for all the Tesla community you have done, and are still doing.

I promise not not to bug you or the forums any more about this subject

(I'm sure I can find other annoying things to bug about in an annoying way!)

Hey, bugging is good! At least there has finally been some activity on the Hong Kong areas of this site ;-)

 

[DITB]

Hey, bugging is good! At least there has finally been some activity on the Hong Kong areas of this site ;-)

Oh, there was a word "work" missing in my post, thank you Mark for the Tesla Community work.

Its easier to have activity when at least something is finally happening! Go check the AU/NZ forums, in NZ it seems they don't even know if Teslas are coming or not, lest even a timeline of sorts.

 

[lx3h]

I think it would definitely affect the folding (talking about adding a third more to the depth of the seat), so would require a redesign of the seat. Then, these seats are tested and certified, so would presumably need to be re-certified. Then, 10cm less of the footwell depth (which is going to make it uncomfortable and probably unsafe for the kids). Overall, it really doesn't seem trivial to me.

Asking for the cars to be made so that third row seats could be added later would probably be doable, but I really don't see the law changing within at the earliest 3 years (even if we had a strong case and lobbying started today). Going back, after 3 years or more, and asking to re-register a vehicle is not going to be simple.

I was involved in the expressway permit issue - and even with an obviously out-dated and unworkable law, it still took 2 years to get it changed. At the time, it was also illegal for an EV to run the battery flat and stop on the expressway (but legal for a petrol car) as electricity was not classified as a fuel. 2 years to change that.

Up until the point that we found the legislation says 38x38cm, and the seats are 28cm, I was pushing and working hard for this. So long as the seats were in compliance with the regulations, and it was purely paperwork / bureaucracy, we had a chance to get this done. Now that we know the seats are not in compliance, it is unfortunately over for the short term.

You have my deepest and most sincere gratitude, Mark.

 

[DITB]

You have my deepest and most sincere gratitude, Mark.

Totally agree, Mark is the HK Tesla God (and angel)!

 

[markwj]

Hey, thanks, but steady on. I just want EVs to succeed in HK. I also wanted rear facing child seats, but I'll settle for 1,000 Tesla's on the road here this year.

 

[DITB]

Hey, thanks, but steady on. I just want EVs to succeed in HK. I also wanted rear facing child seats, but I'll settle for 1,000 Tesla's on the road here this year.

Good on you, Mark, but your work IS important!

I totally agree with that point of view, and I will definitely expose my Model S to as many colleagues as I can, to make sure they know what they are missing! I even found that at least one other user here is a colleague of mine (haha!), so there you go, two of us so far, to spread the word.

A lot of people are reluctant to buy something they cannot have delivered right away, but as soon as they see it on the roads in Hong Kong, try it for real, hear from others "How does it work for you?", then the big wave is going to come. The only showstopper I can see is a change in FRT.

If something bad happens this week, I will join for sure, to rectify it. But of course, we hope for the best!

 

[kwerkun]

Quick question since I didn't notice anybody raising it - Porsche models have those mini back seats in quite a few 911 models - they do appear to be quite small. How come they meet HK regulations and Tesla's don't? (or are they just within the limit?).

 

[markwj]

Quick question since I didn't notice anybody raising it - Porsche models have those mini back seats in quite a few 911 models - they do appear to be quite small. How come they meet HK regulations and Tesla's don't? (or are they just within the limit?).

Either they are big enough (38x38cm) or perhaps were registered before the 38x38cm law came into effect?

 

[lx3h]

I think it would definitely affect the folding (talking about adding a third more to the depth of the seat), so would require a redesign of the seat. Then, these seats are tested and certified, so would presumably need to be re-certified. Then, 10cm less of the footwell depth (which is going to make it uncomfortable and probably unsafe for the kids). Overall, it really doesn't seem trivial to me.

Asking for the cars to be made so that third row seats could be added later would probably be doable, but I really don't see the law changing within at the earliest 3 years (even if we had a strong case and lobbying started today). Going back, after 3 years or more, and asking to re-register a vehicle is not going to be simple.

I was involved in the expressway permit issue - and even with an obviously out-dated and unworkable law, it still took 2 years to get it changed. At the time, it was also illegal for an EV to run the battery flat and stop on the expressway (but legal for a petrol car) as electricity was not classified as a fuel. 2 years to change that.

Up until the point that we found the legislation says 38x38cm, and the seats are 28cm, I was pushing and working hard for this. So long as the seats were in compliance with the regulations, and it was purely paperwork / bureaucracy, we had a chance to get this done. Now that we know the seats are not in compliance, it is unfortunately over for the short term.

Linda told me that the Transport Department doesn't allow rear facing seats for Model S, so there is no chance we are getting it this time round.

 

[jess_hk]

Also, wanted to add my thanks to Mark for all the work and effort you put in for getting this issue noticed! Grateful the Tesla community has such committed members! Thanks again Mark!

 

[orangem]

FYI, I have a S in Canada with rear facing seats. It is quite warm in the back for the kids during summer even with my 15% rear tints. If HK doesn't allow tinting and with 35C+ weather for 8 months, I doubt the rear seats could see much use.

 

[DITB]

Rear facing seats - I understand well why it's for kids only!

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On the other hand - what seems to be the problem? And the view is great

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