Sequestering carbon by land restoration and reforestation in Iceland

[Lessmog]

Haven't heard back from Flóra, so I sent them a followup. I did however stop by the prospective Tesla service centre / store and, for the first time in a month, there's actually significant changes - computers on the desks! Any progress is good progress. Still, I won't be happy until I see a Tesla logo in there

...
Question for you all re: plants. Because of how cheap the trees are at Flóra (assuming I get the offered deal), I'll have quite a large number - all without trays, and possibly overgrown, really needing to get more root space soon. Some of them I'll be putting into the leftover trays from Kjarr, but due to the lower price and the more money available now, they should greatly outnumber the Kjarr trees.

Now, I could just keep the non-tray trees in boxes / bags and make sure that they stay moist until they go in the ground. Another possibility is that some trees, either:

• Those that can't be planted when little (for example, blue spruce) due to hardiness concerns, and need some time to grow
• Broadleafs that would ideally be allowed to get big enough that sheep won't bother them

I have tons of pots. The question is what to do over the winter. I already have at least 4 square meters of pots / trays sitting outside. But if I end up with a dozen or two square meters of pots... what then?

• I could just leave them outside my place in town (there's more shelter than in the countryside, but it'll still freeze the pots solid on and off throughout the winter, and there still will be windstorms).
• I could put them on my land in places that I know will end up underneath snowbanks all winter.
• I could go hardcore with indoor pots this year. The living room floor is cement and it doesn't matter if it gets wet; I was thinking I could make a tall ring of (removable) caulk around it so that I could flood-water a whole room's worth of plants at once I'm not sure the minimum level of artificial light I'd need to provide to keep them alive; they won't hibernate inside.
• I could just simply not up-pot any more seedlings than absolutely necessary.

Thoughts? I was thinking about at least testing the snowbank idea, but I'm not sure whether it's worth risking a large number of plants to something untested. I know that if I leave very small (e.g. first-year sprouted) seedlings outside unprotected at my current place in town, the death rate is high - I don't know how it would be with larger potted seedlings. The indoor death rate should (assuming light is sufficient?) be low (I normally store seedlings by the windows, but they don't get much light in the winter) - although it'd certainly be quite a... curious sight. Indoor winter death rates are nonetheless nonzero, and indoor plants have to be slowly acclimatized to the outside environment in mid to late spring (bringing all of them out and in every day)

(I actually do have a plant room, with grow lights galore, but it's a tropical environment, and it's full)

What do you think?

Well, I think there is much wisdom here: (As in, split your bets)

I think you should triage it. Plant as many that would be able in the field, then the largest potted plants under the snowbank idea, then the next on your patio in town, and then the last (probably the broad leafs, since we want them to grow bigger without sheep infestation) kept indoors for the winter. The semi-extended non-sleep period may be good for them, since they'll have more time to grow sheep free.

Just my thoughts.

Three important factors seem to be: 1) Freezing protection, 2) Sufficient light, and 3) Sufficient water. Maybe in a different order according to each species, especially while hibernating.

Will you be able to commute often to your plot to look after the sprouts? Where can you provide these vital comforts more easily? Maybe some insulation and/or low heating, trickle water feed, timer LEDs (cyan&magenta, since green is reflected; ref. Kimbal) ?

Just spinning wheels here. Good luck!

PS Keep an eye on that budgie too.

 

[KarenRei]

When plants are hibernating, they don't need light (indeed, deciduous trees lose all their leaves, and thus can't use light ). So long as winds aren't strong enough to physically damage them, wind does its harm in the winter through dehydration; plants can't take up water when the ground is frozen. Snow cover is generally good for hibernating plants, as it protects them from the wind, keeps it near 100% humidity around them, insulates the ground (limits how deep it freezes), and if there's a melt, waters them. Plants in pots are more exposed than plants in the ground because pots freeze all the way through (vs. soil which only freezes down to a given depth), and they tend to dehydrate more easily. There's also another risk (in early winter and late spring mainly) of complacency, in that if the soil thaws but there's no precipitation for a long time (and no snow to melt), the soil can dry out; I've lost a number of outdoor plants in pots due to that :Þ . But you don't want to be watering too much when they don't need it, for risk of encouraging the plants to break dormancy too soon.

I could commute to my land regularly in the winter, but I don't see much point. To shovel more snow onto them? For any plants out there, the goal would be to let them sleep. So long as they're under snow, that's about as good as they'd get.

Indoors, though, they won't hibernate. So they will need at least enough light to not burn through their energy stores until they go out for the spring, and they will need to be watered (although not as much as if they were in growth mode... I certainly don't want them pushing new flushes indoors). And as mentioned, any indoor plants will have to be re-adjusted to the outdoors, which means going in and out every day. The main thing is that they don't get nearly as much UV indoors as they do outdoors, and UV in plants trigger the production of chemicals that act as sunscreen (like humans getting a suntan - it's a protective mechanism). If they've been indoors all winter and you just put them straight out all day, they burn badly. I sometimes try to minimize how much I have to move them in and out by putting them in very shady locations and starting the hardening process when cloudy weather is in the forecast.

Thanks! And I think you're right, splitting my bets is probably the best option.

(As for Mal, he might take a nibble or two... but he's no sheep! )

-----
(Oh, and one more note, in case it matters: the sheep "go away" (euphemistically ) in mid to late September, and new ones aren't let out until maybe mid May. So anything on the land during the fall is safe. Of course, due to low temperatures, they won't grow then - they'll only work on roots and energy storage.)

 

[Duffer]

Great work on the last round of fencing.
Special kudos for the solo welding of the bracing inside of your storage conex.

Regarding your fencing over the river. Around 40 years ago, during summer break, I helped my dad fence a small 2 section ranch (1 section is 1 square mile or 260 hectares). We used railroad ties and 5 strands of 4 barb wire to keep the wild horses and both our and the neighbors cattle out of the oats and alfalfa. Unfortunately, most of the fencing was on the other side of the river which meant using a human powered posthole digger vs the PTO (power take off) on the tractor since we had to cross the river via an aluminum skiff.

Now to my suggestion. We used 1 inch thick cable strung across the river just above the high water mark so any winter debris wouldn't hit the cable. Every foot we attached wire "streamers" that hung down to the water so it appeared to be an actual barrier to a swimming horse. You mentioned that sheep don't like to spend too much time in the water. If they think there's a barrier in place hopefully they wouldn't test it. The horses didn't but then again they aren't the spawn of Satan.

 

[KarenRei]

Great work on the last round of fencing.
Special kudos for the solo welding of the bracing inside of your storage conex.

Regarding your fencing over the river. Around 40 years ago, during summer break, I helped my dad fence a small 2 section ranch (1 section is 1 square mile or 260 hectares). We used railroad ties and 5 strands of 4 barb wire to keep the wild horses and both our and the neighbors cattle out of the oats and alfalfa. Unfortunately, most of the fencing was on the other side of the river which meant using a human powered posthole digger vs the PTO (power take off) on the tractor since we had to cross the river via an aluminum skiff.

Now to my suggestion. We used 1 inch thick cable strung across the river just above the high water mark so any winter debris wouldn't hit the cable. Every foot we attached wire "streamers" that hung down to the water so it appeared to be an actual barrier to a swimming horse. You mentioned that sheep don't like to spend too much time in the water. If they think there's a barrier in place hopefully they wouldn't test it. The horses didn't but then again they aren't the spawn of Satan.

Streamers aren't a bad idea, actually. Whenever I'm planting near the river I should remember to bring something to tie to the wires (there's now one at each end of the land).

 

[Duffer]

I agree with @LN_1Casey don't put all of your "eggs" in one basket.

Regarding the outside seedlings at your house. Is it possible to place them on the lee side of your house in a lean-to or at least enclose/insulate around the pots so they don't freeze solid? As far as the inside plants I'm sure that your current tropical plants won't mind giving up a small grow lamp or two.

Streamers aren't a bad idea, actually. Whenever I'm planting near the river I should remember to bring something to tie to the wires (there's now one at each end of the land).

Possibly a separate heavy wire with the lighter wires pre-attached that you can throw across and then secure? If debris does hang up during flooding your fence isn't pulled down and more importantly you don't have to stand in freezing water attaching the "streamers".

 

[KarenRei]

I agree with @LN_1Casey don't put all of your "eggs" in one basket.

Regarding the outside seedlings at your house. Is it possible to place them on the lee side of your house in a lean-to or at least enclose/insulate around the pots so they don't freeze solid? As far as the inside plants I'm sure that your current tropical plants won't mind giving up a small grow lamp or two.


Possibly a separate heavy wire with the lighter wires pre-attached that you can throw across and then secure? If debris does hang up during flooding your fence isn't pulled down and more importantly you don't have to stand in freezing water attaching the "streamers".

I don't think there's a practical way to insulate them outdoors. It'll be hard enough to stop the plants themselves from blowing away, let alone a lean-to or blanket. But yeah, I could probably afford to "borrow" a grow lamp from the plant room . Maybe one less for the coconut tree....

 

[winfield100]

Haven't heard back from Flóra, so I sent them a followup. I did however stop by the prospective Tesla service centre / store and, for the first time in a month, there's actually significant changes - computers on the desks! Any progress is good progress. Still, I won't be happy until I see a Tesla logo in there

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Question for you all re: plants. Because of how cheap the trees are at Flóra (assuming I get the offered deal), I'll have quite a large number - all without trays, and possibly overgrown, really needing to get more root space soon. Some of them I'll be putting into the leftover trays from Kjarr, but due to the lower price and the more money available now, they should greatly outnumber the Kjarr trees.

Now, I could just keep the non-tray trees in boxes / bags and make sure that they stay moist until they go in the ground. Another possibility is that some trees, either:

• Those that can't be planted when little (for example, blue spruce) due to hardiness concerns, and need some time to grow
• Broadleafs that would ideally be allowed to get big enough that sheep won't bother them

I have tons of pots. The question is what to do over the winter. I already have at least 4 square meters of pots / trays sitting outside. But if I end up with a dozen or two square meters of pots... what then?

• I could just leave them outside my place in town (there's more shelter than in the countryside, but it'll still freeze the pots solid on and off throughout the winter, and there still will be windstorms).
• I could put them on my land in places that I know will end up underneath snowbanks all winter.
• I could go hardcore with indoor pots this year. The living room floor is cement and it doesn't matter if it gets wet; I was thinking I could make a tall ring of (removable) caulk around it so that I could flood-water a whole room's worth of plants at once I'm not sure the minimum level of artificial light I'd need to provide to keep them alive; they won't hibernate inside.
• I could just simply not up-pot any more seedlings than absolutely necessary.

Thoughts? I was thinking about at least testing the snowbank idea, but I'm not sure whether it's worth risking a large number of plants to something untested. I know that if I leave very small (e.g. first-year sprouted) seedlings outside unprotected at my current place in town, the death rate is high - I don't know how it would be with larger potted seedlings. The indoor death rate should (assuming light is sufficient?) be low (I normally store seedlings by the windows, but they don't get much light in the winter) - although it'd certainly be quite a... curious sight. Indoor winter death rates are nonetheless nonzero, and indoor plants have to be slowly acclimatized to the outside environment in mid to late spring (bringing all of them out and in every day)

(I actually do have a plant room, with grow lights galore, but it's a tropical environment, and it's full)

What do you think?

I hesitate to comment because your ground is so rocky and hard to dig, but some kind of covered cold frame partially sunk in the ground like a pit greenhouse covered with insulation type materials and maybe an old spare window.....

 

[KarenRei]

Haven't heard back from Flóra I'm going to run some errands that have been building up, and if I don't hear back, maybe I should call.

 

[KarenRei]

Just heard back from Flóra! Hope I get there in time!

- kv, Karen

 

[adiggs]

Just heard back from Flóra! Hope I get there in time!

- kv, Karen

This thread totally delivers Karen. I think it's become my favorite thread on the board to stop in and see what's been going on.

 

[KarenRei]

Stopped by Tesla today during my errand run. Some unknown (but Iceland-registered) Model X and a van from a cleaning company are sitting outside.

The girls in the cleaning company van look unhappy, but they laughed when I sheepishly walked past them to take "spy" pictures inside the room Inside - very hard to see in this picture - there's a guy working on a laptop (facing the wall, between the reflections of the two red cars):

I got back home. At my door I got a package from the county containing the building permit for my house (along with a bill). Who knows when I'll actually be able to do any significant work on the house, but great to have the permit now!

(Note how the frikkin' sheep are even in the official seal of the county! )

So, I then got the aforementioned email about the trees being ready at Flóra. I promptly headed out.... in the wrong direction! :Þ I was distracted and didn't notice until I was out of town to the south (toward the airport) that I was supposed to be going out of town to the east (toward Hveragerði). And it's a case of "you can't get there from here". There are "roads", that head east (e.g. through Heiðmörk or north of Bláfjöll) but they're worse than gravel roads; taking them is slower than diverting back north through town during rush hour.

I get back on track. Conditions are great.

I pass by Hellisheiði and its snaking network of pipes. Inbound pipes take hot water from the individual wells to the turbine house. Outbound pipes head into Reykjavík to heat homes and businesses.

I got to Flóra much later than expected, but thankfully they were still open. I met up with the manager and we walked out to the trees, where he started collecting suitable trays:

He doesn't have as many conifers as I'd like, and the trees aren't in as good of condition or care as those of Kjarr. But at these prices.... you know, I can't help but think of that famous legal case, Beggars v. Choosers.

He fetches six oaks as well (I only get a small discount on them), and he rounds everything off at 75k krónur ($615).

I finish loading up the plants.... literally twice as many trays, plus six times as many large trees... into my car. Um...

Yeah, how bad can it be, right? Sure, looks fine....

Actually, cue the circus music for the clown car

 

[KarenRei]

I clean the dust off the windows to peer inside:

Trays stacked upon trays stacked upon trees stacked upon trays. And... are those trays on the dash, too???

Note that the trays-upon-trays reach nearly to the top of the passenger-side headrest:

For some strange reason, my attempts to take scenery pictures on the way back didn't work that well

I get back and open the trunk... oh, Guð, I'm sorry little trees, I won't do that to you again!

I take them all out and place them on / around my trailer. I swear, my neighbors are going to think I'm starting a garden centre.

 

[KarenRei]

---

It's a bit late to be starting this evening, so tomorrow will be planting day! Oaks get the first go. The Flóra guy really stressed the shelter aspect for them, so that will limit the number of potential spots for them. I still have multiple locations, though; their locations will be diversified.

Frank - I'll take pictures of each oak once it's in the ground, and you can decide which one you want to be the memorial oak. I'll then place a ring of stones around it the next time I'm out. (assuming that it's located in a location near stones and not on a slope too steep to support a ring of stones).

 

[Lessmog]

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It's a bit late to be starting this evening, so tomorrow will be planting day! Oaks get the first go. The Flóra guy really stressed the shelter aspect for them, so that will limit the number of potential spots for them. I still have multiple locations, though; their locations will be diversified.

Frank - I'll take pictures of each oak once it's in the ground, and you can decide which one you want to be the memorial oak. I'll then place a ring of stones around it the next time I'm out. (assuming that it's located in a location near stones and not on a slope too steep to support a ring of stones).

Some trailer! And not afraid to leave the key in the lock ...

 

[Fred42]

So, I then got the aforementioned email about the trees being ready at Flóra. I promptly headed out.... in the wrong direction! :Þ I was distracted and didn't notice until I was out of town to the south (toward the airport) that I was supposed to be going out of town to the east (toward Hveragerði). And it's a case of "you can't get there from here". There are "roads", that head east (e.g. through Heiðmörk or north of Bláfjöll) but they're worse than gravel roads; taking them is slower than diverting back north through town during rush hour.

I get back on track. Conditions are great.

You'll go in the right direction with NOA!

 

[Duffer]

I hesitate to comment because your ground is so rocky and hard to dig, but some kind of covered cold frame partially sunk in the ground like a pit greenhouse covered with insulation type materials and maybe an old spare window.....

Thank you for explaining what I was thinking when I wrote "enclose/insulate around the pots".

Here's the outline of what I was thinking since I botched it so badly yesterday. Yes, I know that it's easy for someone thousands of miles away from the "blister end" of the shovel to come up with great ideas.

If I read the Iceland road study correctly, the frost line is approximately 24 inches (63 cm). Therefore, a covered cold frame of slightly more than that depth should keep the pots from freezing solid. Basically, a 26 inch deep frame sunk into the ground with a hinged insulated lid (hinges towards the prevailing wind) and a pair of hasps on the lee side to secure the lid. The dirt from the excavation placed around the framing to prevent the wind from catching the edge of the lid as well as preventing wind intrusion.

If someone wanted to get fancy, one 60 watt incandescent bulb would actually make it toasty (relatively speaking) in there. Then again, that would also create a watering issue...

 

[KarenRei]

Thank you for explaining what I was thinking when I wrote "enclose/insulate around the pots".

Here's the outline of what I was thinking since I botched it so badly yesterday. Yes, I know that it's easy for someone thousands of miles away from the "blister end" of the shovel to come up with great ideas.

If I read the Iceland road study correctly, the frost line is approximately 24 inches (63 cm). Therefore, a covered cold frame of slightly more than that depth should keep the pots from freezing solid. Basically, a 26 inch deep frame sunk into the ground with a hinged insulated lid (hinges towards the prevailing wind) and a pair of hasps on the lee side to secure the lid. The dirt from the excavation placed around the framing to prevent the wind from catching the edge of the lid as well as preventing wind intrusion.

If someone wanted to get fancy, one 60 watt incandescent bulb would actually make it toasty (relatively speaking) in there. Then again, that would also create a watering issue...

The problem when discussing building any sort of improvised structure out there is the winds. I can't put too fine of a point on that, so instead of trying to describe how strong they are with words; I'll let pictures explain it. Before my shed was surrounded by boulders - but still full of many tonnes of timber, steel, glass, a cast iron stove, and on and on - this happened:

Tossed around like a children's toy. Not the only crate in the valley that happened to. The same storm also ripped down an old concrete stables on the neighbor's land across the river. It was in poor shape (a very old structure), but still, it was made of concrete.

Being near the arctic circle, exposed to Atlantic storms, without forests to interrupt the windflow... that's what you get. One of the reasons why Icelanders have been trying so hard to reestablish forests is to help interrupt the wind! The winds from that storm were clocked at nearly 70 m/s (nearly 157 mph / 252 kph) across the fjörd. Just check out a global map of wind resources:

(The funny thing is we have few wind turbines here because other energy resources are so abundant. It's slowly starting to change, but I wish it'd change faster! )

These storms are almost a purely winter (and to a lesser extent, late fall + spring) phenomenon. As you've probably noticed by the fact that none of my pictures have me flying through the air, summer is pretty calm But in the winter we get wave after wave of what are basically the extratropical equivalent of hurricanes every year. Underneath a snowbank, nothing blows away, but anything exposed....

Basically, there's a reason that every year I have to clean debris from other peoples' property (and sometimes my own) out of my ravine and canyon Remember what I had to do to stop that timber on the construction site (which is itself somewhat sheltered by a bluff) from flying away - it's all bundled up with steel wire, with concrete blocks on top of it, and the steel wire bundles themselves are tied with steel wire to each other and ultimately to fish crates full of rocks and concrete blocks. And it still sometimes sheds some debris.

(This probably also helps clarify why a strong tree like an oak would still need shelter Places like below the lip of the ravine, behind natural obstacles, etc are where they'll be limited to, until other trees get big enough to start sheltering the land)

 

[Duffer]

So you're saying Njǫrd is alive and well? His tossing your storage container around like a toy is pretty impressive.

The cold frame shelter I described would be below grade with the lid at or inches above grade depending on topography. There would be plenty of earth from the excavation to pack around the perimeter ensuring that the framework wouldn't be exposed. Provided the hasps held, it should be impervious to the wind.

Basically, your smaller plants would be placed in their very own bunker that should be safer/warmer/easier to access then burying them in a snow bank.

 

[KarenRei]

I still wouldn't trust it exposed to the full force of the winds And remember how large of a structure is being discussed: the pots for larger trees are maybe 25 per square meter. So if one were overwintering hundreds of trees that have been potted up, it could be a dozen or more square meters. Digging all that out to 2/3rds meters depth with a shovel would be a massive effort. And I'm still not sure that would work, because the airspace in there would just convect heat to the (uninsulated) cover.

That said, maybe some variant would work. The bottom of the ravine is inherently sheltered from the winds, as the sides are about 45 degrees and it goes down up to a dozen meters or so at the deepest. There's also groundwater seeps... liquid groundwater being by definition above the freezing point of water. It could be workable to "timber off" a section of the bottom of the ravine. Snow also tends to collect at the bottom of the ravine, so that would insulate above it (assuming it didn't collapse under the weight...) Though plywood would stop water from getting through (incl. snow melt), so the pots might dry out over time (unless they sucked up water from underneath or could stay moist enough from the humidity).

That said, it'd use up at least a dozen square meters of plywood, plus 2x4s, and still be a lot of work (even hauling all those pots in and out of the ravine would on its own probably be a couple hours of work each time).

There's a bit of a ditch near the shed which could also be covered over, and it also has the shed and boulders as a windbreak (at least from the east). As far as locations go, it's certainly more convenient (a car can pull up right next to it). It's not that big, though, and it doesn't have groundwater seeps.

The shed itself is perfect shelter inside. But it's also completely dry. And access to it is often blocked in the winter by snowdrifts, so I won't be able to get in to water without hours of work after every single snowstorm. The problem is that the dropoff by the doors creates an eddy vortex, and that causes all of the windblown snow to collect there. The drifts get taller than me. Indeed, it's one of the drift locations that I had been thinking of for storing pots

ED: The main pots I'm using when I pot-up are 160mm in diameter (just measured). So that's 6x6 (36) pots per square meter, not 5x5 (25).

 

[Frank Einstein]

Frank - I'll take pictures of each oak once it's in the ground, and you can decide which one you want to be the memorial oak. I'll then place a ring of stones around it the next time I'm out. (assuming that it's located in a location near stones and not on a slope too steep to support a ring of stones).

That sounds perfect Karen - thanks so much!