I'm fine with sounds. They're an immeasurably small inconvenience to me that add a possible benefit to the vision impaired. I don't see the issue, so long as it's applied to all motor vehicles.
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Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?
- Thread starter Brent
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- Electric Vehicles
Including scooters and ebikes. I had a guy on a scooter pass me at 30 mph today, run 2 red lights, the first right behind a cop car. And if I hit him, it’s me in jail, right?
I prefer rear cross traffic detection. It works incredibly well with pedestrians. Sometimes I turn on my indicators too, the visual flashing seems to be more effective.
Glad you approve.
Speaker was unplugged on day one.
oh, and I don't wear a mask while driving my car either
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Which is fine if you are not driving for Uber, Lyft, taxi, limo, or otherwise picking up passengers. I drove past about a dozen of those yesterday who had masks down between customers, filling the car with aerosols for next unsuspecting passenger.
that was just before I saw scooter guy... see how I avoided being off topic?
PS I often wear a mask while driving if out for errands because I’m jumping in and out to go into stores, etc. and it’s too much of PITA to keep taking off and putting on (correctly).
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Entire law
49 CFR § 571.141 - Standard No. 141; Minimum Sound Requirements for Hybrid and Electric Vehicles.
I heard a Model Y at a supercharger. I initially didn't realize it was the low speed sound maker and it didn't really sound that bad. Sort of like a low volume version of a UFO sound from an old B movie.
I have a friend who is a traffic attorney. He has easily talked me out of any illegal tint. He says any accident with injury, the tint as it impedes vision, is going to be severely looked at by the judge and in most cases the insurance companies pay zero as the contact is void as soon as the car is illegal.
The fundamental problem here is the "fix" is actually self-defeating. Deaf people (and those who pay little attention) would be best served by ALL cars making less noise so they can hear everything more clearly (cars drown out a lot of OTHER aural cues they need walking along the sidewalk).
Fast-forward 15 years when the majority of cars are EVs. We would be better off without the noisemakers. But we wont be able to get rid of them cause "if SOME of the cars dont make as much noise as the others, you wont be able to hear them over the sound of all the noise makers". Which is stupid.
Fast-forward 15 years when the majority of cars are EVs. We would be better off without the noisemakers. But we wont be able to get rid of them cause "if SOME of the cars dont make as much noise as the others, you wont be able to hear them over the sound of all the noise makers". Which is stupid.
Merrill
Merrill
Interesting you should mention. We honeymooned in Haiti. Crowds parted in front of bus like ballet in port au prince. I asked driver “does anyone ever get hit?” He said “often, but you’d better hope they are dead, because if they are just injured it is a lot more paperwork.”
tragic but true.
Merrill
Merrill
Yes it was an interesting experience, we were in a van on a dirt road and there was a bicyclist on the edge of the road the driver hit the bicyclist with the rear view mirror and knocked him down. I was freaked out and asked the driver if he did not see the person and he said that bicyclist should not be on the road so to bad!
The other point is there is a hidden assumption that EVs are quieter than ICE cars in all cases. Last time a Rolls Royce drove past me the things made almost no noise at all .. so why doesn't it have a noise maker?
I'll be the party pooper here. There are a myriad of other noises out in the world besides ICE. In many cases, the noise is tire and wind noise, not engine noise. Sometimes wildlife can make a lot of noise. Moving objects making a sound are more safe, which is why we have reverse alerts on large trucks, forklifts, etc. We happened to have a natural (and unnatural) sound emitting from ICE cars to date, and we don't anymore. It's not about drowning out other noises, it's about keeping people safe from deadly moving objects.
It costs me literally nothing to have some noise come from my car, and it may save a life or minimize the suffering of someone else. I really don't see the debate.
It costs me literally nothing to have some noise come from my car, and it may save a life or minimize the suffering of someone else. I really don't see the debate.
Candleflame
Active Member
Indeed. If you look at europe where everyone drives tiny 1 and 1.5l engines you can barely hear those. Teslas are much louder imho due to the big tires.
Candleflame
Active Member
Has anyone actually asked visually impaired people about this, or studied the issues scientifically? While not in any way scientific, I asked the three visually impaired people I know, and the consensus was traffic noise *overall* was a problem because it drowned out everything else. The consensus was that either there was already a lot of other traffic noise already, in which case the EV noise generator made no difference, or there wasn't other traffic, in which case it wasn't needed (because they could easily hear an EV without needing the extra noise).
If anyone doubts this, I will share this tale. Years ago, when my parents had a grand piano, the (blind) piano tuner was taking a break, and asked if a building in the town center where we lived was still there. I told them no, it had been recently demolished. They nodded, "yes, I though I could hear the difference," they said. In a town center full of traffic noise. That has stayed with me for years.
If anyone doubts this, I will share this tale. Years ago, when my parents had a grand piano, the (blind) piano tuner was taking a break, and asked if a building in the town center where we lived was still there. I told them no, it had been recently demolished. They nodded, "yes, I though I could hear the difference," they said. In a town center full of traffic noise. That has stayed with me for years.
"Incidence of Pedestrian and Bicyclist Crashes by Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicles"
Finds a doubling of pedestrian/cyclist injuries at slow speeds with parking maneuvers and reversing, for instance. No difference on roadways going straight at speed.
Study funded by the National Federation for the Blind, who was a group strongly behind these rules. Mostly just talks about the reaction time and doesn't do an injury/fatality analysis. But to your first point, the NFB is in favor of noisemakers.
I am sure more study and analysis is warranted. But it appears that both the visually impaired groups and the NHTSA agree that it seems likely these will be helpful at slow speeds and reversing (as we have implemented today).
I don't like noise, of any kind. I oppose any rule that singles out EVs for obligatory noisemakers. I can accept it (reluctantly!) if it applies to all cars.
But while we're at it, lets have serious and vigorous enforcement of laws against overly loud cars! No matter what kind of noisemaker you put on my electric car, a blind person isn't going to hear it if some asshole a block away is driving a car without a muffler.
