Sketchy AF Phanyom Braking

[_yeti]

We've now had numerous sketchy phantom braking issues on our M3 (HW2.5) while under adaptive cruise control.

The super sketchy one that has now happened 10+ times is while travelling on a major 12-lane highway where the speed of traffic is 130km/h.

Occassionally, the car will either momentarily think the car is now on an adjacent service road beside the highway with a speed limit of 50km/hr - so the speed drops from 130 to 50 immediately and the car brakes hard.

Obviously, in busy traffic at 130+ km/hr this is sketchy AF. Luckily I have always been watching close enough to hit the has and override before getting rear ended, but a split second slower reaction and it would have been a very different situation.

How do you report these to Tesla? I've tried to call but they generally just deny it's an issue, give me the line about needing to pay attention, and dismiss it.

We've had the car for a year and a half and it hasn't improved.

 

[afadeev]

We've now had numerous sketchy phantom braking issues on our M3 (HW2.5) while under adaptive cruise control.[...]
We've had the car for a year and a half and it hasn't improved.

Yes, it happens.
A fair amount. To all of us.

Here is how you report bugs to Tesla:
1). Hit RHS steering scroll button and speak verbal command "bug report". This saves a bookmark in the log file.
2). If you care enough, text or email yourself with a reminder of what just happened - this generates the time stamp of the event.
3). Once parked, email or call service with description of the issues, and the exact time stamp. They can then review the logs and note where you marked it.
4). There is a chance they will act on this information. No promises.

More here: Bug Report -- How to?? | Tesla

HTH,
a

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Yes, it happens.
A fair amount. To all of us.

Here is how you report bugs to Tesla:
1). Hit RHS steering scroll button and speak verbal command "bug report". This saves a bookmark in the log file.
2). If you care enough, text or email yourself with a reminder of what just happened - this generates the time stamp of the event.
3). Once parked, email or call service with description of the issues, and the exact time stamp. They can then review the logs and note where you marked it.
4). There is a chance they will act on this information. No promises.

More here: Bug Report -- How to?? | Tesla

HTH,
a

I was all excited to learn about "Bug Report" until I read that thread that says it's the equivalent of pissing in the wind.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

We've now had numerous sketchy phantom braking issues on our M3 (HW2.5) while under adaptive cruise control.

The super sketchy one that has now happened 10+ times is while travelling on a major 12-lane highway where the speed of traffic is 130km/h.

Occassionally, the car will either momentarily think the car is now on an adjacent service road beside the highway with a speed limit of 50km/hr - so the speed drops from 130 to 50 immediately and the car brakes hard.

Obviously, in busy traffic at 130+ km/hr this is sketchy AF. Luckily I have always been watching close enough to hit the has and override before getting rear ended, but a split second slower reaction and it would have been a very different situation.

How do you report these to Tesla? I've tried to call but they generally just deny it's an issue, give me the line about needing to pay attention, and dismiss it.

We've had the car for a year and a half and it hasn't improved.

Yep, basically AP is currently a dangerous waste of money. I will no longer use it after dangerous incidents like yours. But be ready for the fanboys to call you crazy and that there's nothing wrong with AP and it's helped disabled people so you should be shot for saying anything bad about it.

Tesla does not care, and will just berate you for bringing any shortcomings to their attention. Do you want to be this guy?

AP Changing lanes into adjacent vehicle

So bottom line is that you need to realize you paid for, but don't have AP. You may someday have AP, but right now you have MAPHYDD, which is "Monitor AutoPilot and Hope You Don't Die."

 

[Daniel in SD]

The funny thing is I've seen numerous Autopilot "fail" videos here and only one of them was a near rear end accident. Sometimes I wonder if it's really braking as hard as people think or if it's just feels hard because it comes out of nowhere.
The hard braking due to speed limit change is really inexcusable though. Shouldn't they be able to predict the trajectory of the car and brake before the speed limit change? I've never experienced hard phantom braking here, I wonder if the map quality is just worse in some places.

 

[loscosmos]

I just posted a separate thread about this same issue. Twice in two days on the interstate rapid decelleeation with nobody near the car. Regretting paying for FSD a bit but tell myself it's a great normal car nonetheless.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The funny thing is I've seen numerous Autopilot "fail" videos here and only one of them was a near rear end accident. Sometimes I wonder if it's really braking as hard as people think or if it's just feels hard because it comes out of nowhere.
The hard braking due to speed limit change is really inexcusable though. Shouldn't they be able to predict the trajectory of the car and brake before the speed limit change? I've never experienced hard phantom braking here, I wonder if the map quality is just worse in some places.

The first time my car phantom braked on me, I had neck pain for 2 days.

 

[Knightshade]

The funny thing is I've seen numerous Autopilot "fail" videos here and only one of them was a near rear end accident. Sometimes I wonder if it's really braking as hard as people think

It's not... someone actually posted data a while back complaining how SEVERE it was, and provided data, that once folks did the math it was like 0.2g of braking

I've never experienced hard phantom braking here

Ditto. In fact I've never experienced actual "phantom" braking at all with over 15k miles on the car- like 90% of it on AP.... I'm talking the kind where there's NOTHING around you and NO possible reason for the braking.

I HAVE experienced what a human would consider "incorrect" braking- but it was always with an obvious reason nearby (a car it saw coming around a tight curve but not actually in my lane.... or a car ahead of me it thought was cutting me off but was just correcting back from being too far to the other side in an adjacent lane...that kinda stuff)- and even then it never got my anywhere close to an accident, just the occasional weird look from another driver.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

It's not... someone actually posted data a while back complaining how SEVERE it was, and provided data, that once folks did the math it was like 0.2g of braking




Ditto. In fact I've never experienced actual "phantom" braking at all with over 15k miles on the car- like 90% of it on AP.... I'm talking the kind where there's NOTHING around you and NO possible reason for the braking.

I HAVE experienced what a human would consider "incorrect" braking- but it was always with an obvious reason nearby (a car it saw coming around a tight curve but not actually in my lane.... or a car ahead of me it thought was cutting me off but was just correcting back from being too far to the other side in an adjacent lane...that kinda stuff)- and even then it never got my anywhere close to an accident, just the occasional weird look from another driver.

It would be nice to know why your car doesn't have any problem and others do. Is it something wrong with the hardware in our cars so that no number of firmware upgrades will fix it? I posted a video showing that the contrast of my forward camera changed significantly around the time of a phantom braking. I can only wonder if it's related.

 

[cybergates]

HW3 has worse phantom braking than HW 2.5 or 2 from my experience. Keep doing the bug report - I do feel it helps over time esp if the collective group of us keeps reporting the same issue at the same location....

 

[Mktitan]

I’ve had my LR Model 3 for a little over a year and a half. I never bought AP or FSD. I did the trial run of autopilot when they offered it at some point. The car did the phantom braking thing the first day that I had it on and that was enough for me to turn off the AP trial and never consider it again. The car itself is awesome and I am really happy with my purchase and I will definitely buy another Tesla when it comes time but I won’t get AP or FSD until I can go to sleep in the backseat. It’s not ready for prime time.

 

[Joshan]

The first time my car phantom braked on me, I had neck pain for 2 days.

Seriously? video or it never happened. Phantom braking does NOT equal getting rear ended.

Lets stick to facts and stop with the fake hysteria.

 

[linux-works]

again, I'm going to suggest the (sometimes unpopular) idea that level2 cars and above should have a VISUAL INDICATOR that alerts nearby drivers that you are in semiauton mode.

people don't like the idea, but I suspect it will have to happen. people do follow too closely and that won't be fixed unless they are scared of the car in front. I WANT them to be scared of my car, in front of them, so that they give enough space around.

I never see people discuss this, for some reason, and I don't know why.

phantom braking and other things are going to be with us for the next 5 years, at least (WAG). if we don't do something to help with safety, the whole e-car thing could backfire (so to speak!) in a bad way.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Seriously? video or it never happened. Phantom braking does NOT equal getting rear ended.

Lets stick to facts and stop with the fake hysteria.

Do you think I am a YouTuber that films myself all day long? I had just taken delivery and was on the freeway 10 mins after leaving Tesla when it happened. What makes you think I would have video of me driving and my head being thrown forward when I hadn't known about these phantom braking issues??

As far as I know you're fake. You could be Elon posting on here to silence the truth.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

again, I'm going to suggest the (sometimes unpopular) idea that level2 cars and above should have a VISUAL INDICATOR that alerts nearby drivers that you are in semiauton mode.

people don't like the idea, but I suspect it will have to happen. people do follow too closely and that won't be fixed unless they are scared of the car in front. I WANT them to be scared of my car, in front of them, so that they give enough space around.

I never see people discuss this, for some reason, and I don't know why.

phantom braking and other things are going to be with us for the next 5 years, at least (WAG). if we don't do something to help with safety, the whole e-car thing could backfire (so to speak!) in a bad way.

Let's be honest, this is not a threat to EV's. There's absolutely no reason self driving can't be added to ICE cars, and guess what, it is. This is a threat to self driving technology, and one that will keep things like RoboTaxi from ever being approved from a legislation perspective.

 

[linux-works]

assisted or self driving on ice cars? LOL

ICE car development is done and over. all vendors have announced this in one form or another.

you think vendors are going to put such heavy software R/D into ICE cars at this point in time?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

assisted or self driving on ice cars? LOL

ICE car development is done and over. all vendors have announced this in one form or another.

you think vendors are going to put such heavy software R/D into ICE cars at this point in time?

You're not too smart my friend. Why do you think Super Cruise from Cadillac on ICE cars is considered a better and more advanced implementation of AP-type technology??

Super Cruise - Hands Free Driving | Cadillac Ownership

Autonomous driving is mutually exclusive from EV vs ICE.

And if you think ICE vehicles are dead anytime soon, you're living in a dream world. Yes, the major manufacturers need to do EV's to get the government money and balance out the EPA regs, but they will be around for a long time to come.

Please think before you type.

 

[Daniel in SD]

assisted or self driving on ice cars? LOL

ICE car development is done and over. all vendors have announced this in one form or another.

you think vendors are going to put such heavy software R/D into ICE cars at this point in time?

The Model 3 steering rack, brake system, and accelerator pedal are exactly the same as a modern ICE vehicle.

 

[linux-works]

the vendors are halting development on ICE cars. what they are shipping has been developed and is in 'sustaining' mode.

the serious new r/d is being directed toward electric.

this should not be surprising to anyone.

does this mean that no more ICE cars are being sold or produced? of course not! mostly the vendors are not ready to fully switch over, people are not fully convinced yet and the charging infra is not fully there yet to convince everyone.

but the writing is clearly on the wall, and all the software development jobs I see advertised are NOT for ICE cars but for electric.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

the vendors are halting development on ICE cars. what they are shipping has been developed and is in 'sustaining' mode.

the serious new r/d is being directed toward electric.

this should not be surprising to anyone.

Says the guy that knows nothing about what the car manufacturers are doing...