SpaceX vs. Everyone - ULA, NG, Boeing, Lockheed, etc.

[aronth5]

With Eutelsat Win, SpaceX has Business with All 5 Top Satellite Fleet Owners

No surprise here:
"SpaceX’s lower-cost commercial offering has been the bête noire of Europe’s launch sector, and of some European politicians, for several years, making any choice of the California company by a European operator a source of controversy"

\http://spacenews.com/with-eutelsat-win-spacex-has-business-with-all-5-top-satellite-fleet-owners/

 

[Grendal]

Congress is now going after the "launch readiness" money that ULA enjoys:

U.S. Air Force evaluating early end for ULAs $800 million in yearly support - SpaceNews.com

Also trying to reinstate the ban on the RD-180 that just got dropped.

 

[chickensevil]

Congress is now going after the "launch readiness" money that ULA enjoys:

U.S. Air Force evaluating early end for ULAs $800 million in yearly support - SpaceNews.com

Also trying to reinstate the ban on the RD-180 that just got dropped.

as they said they would, haha! The lift on the ban was slipped into one bill, and one of them (McCain?) said that even if it gets lifted here, they would turn around and ban it again in a couple months by slipping it back into another bill.

- - - Updated - - -

You know, what I have learned from all this, if you want something passed, just put it in a bill that is so important to the existence of the government that it will pass no matter what. For example the NDAA, which is what determines, primarily, the budget for defense for that fiscal year. It is going to pass, no matter what... so as long as you can get the minimal votes to stick some tiny line in there about whatever then it will ride the bill and get pushed through, mostly without notice. Bonus points if you slip it in on the day of the final vote for the bill.

So many terrible things have gotten through that way...

 

[ohmman]

You know, what I have learned from all this, if you want something passed, just put it in a bill that is so important to the existence of the government that it will pass no matter what.

Or, in many cases, to future votes. That's often the case when you hear that a candidate voted against a bill that did something like "increase VA funding" - there's usually a (bunch of) hidden earmarks that ruin the entire thing. Compromise is so important in politics, but anyone caught admitting that they compromise is considered a failure.

 

[Bgarret]

Couple good summary articles on SpaceX disruption of the market.

SpaceX And Russia Change The Rules Of The Military Launch Market | TechCrunch

Will SpaceX Put Russia Out of the Space Business? -- The Motley Fool

 

[miimura]

The TechCrunch article failed to mention that ULA ordered 20 more RD-180's within a week after the ban was lifted.

 

[Grendal]

Big news on this front:

Brett Tobey, VP of Engineering, says a bunch of inside information.

ULA intends to lower its costs, and raise its cool, to compete with SpaceX - SpaceNews.com

The CEO quickly steps in and says that Brett is not speaking for ULA.

ULA chief disavows his head engineer's take on Vulcan engine competition - SpaceNews.com

Brett Tobey "resigns" following his statements and the "takeback" by the CEO.

ULA VP resigns following remarks on company's competitive position, strategy - SpaceNews.com

The last article goes over some of the major points of his speech and what was inflammatory.

He basically admits that SpaceX is crushing them on price and innovation and without the Air Force, Senator Shelby, the RD-180, and the Block Buy they can't compete.

Senator asks Pentagon to investigate “troubling” launch contracts

McCain has already picked up on this and is coming after ULA with every gun he's got. He will go after the RD-180 and the ELC money.

 

[Sparky]

Fascinating. As if Elon himself shape-shifted into this character for that talk!
Poor fellow. The price of being honest and impolitic.
Here's the link to the quartz news article also.
This rocket executive pissed off everyone in space and lost his job the next day

 

[chickensevil]

Big news on this front:

Brett Tobey, VP of Engineering, says a bunch of inside information.

ULA intends to lower its costs, and raise its cool, to compete with SpaceX - SpaceNews.com

The CEO quickly steps in and says that Brett is not speaking for ULA.

ULA chief disavows his head engineer's take on Vulcan engine competition - SpaceNews.com

Brett Tobey "resigns" following his statements and the "takeback" by the CEO.

ULA VP resigns following remarks on company's competitive position, strategy - SpaceNews.com

The last article goes over some of the major points of his speech and what was inflammatory.

He basically admits that SpaceX is crushing them on price and innovation and without the Air Force, Senator Shelby, the RD-180, and the Block Buy they can't compete.

Senator asks Pentagon to investigate “troubling” launch contracts

McCain has already picked up on this and is coming after ULA with every gun he's got. He will go after the RD-180 and the ELC money.

Wow, lots of great info! Sounds like the only solution is for SpaceX to hire this guy, immediately!

 

[Grendal]

Wow, lots of great info! Sounds like the only solution is for SpaceX to hire this guy, immediately!

Not a chance. If you read the transcript, he said lots of horrible things about SpaceX. And most of it was untrue.... He was just a corporate guy that said the wrong things that had some truth in them at the wrong time.

 

[chickensevil]

Not a chance. If you read the transcript, he said lots of horrible things about SpaceX. And most of it was untrue.... He was just a corporate guy that said the wrong things that had some truth in them at the wrong time.

Well that and if SpaceX hired him it would look like they paid him to make these statements...

But yeah, this is probably the best worst thing to happen to ULA

 

[Grendal]

Well that and if SpaceX hired him it would look like they paid him to make these statements...

But yeah, this is probably the best worst thing to happen to ULA

He just said out loud what SpaceX enthusiasts already knew was true. ULA is not going to succeed at beating SpaceX. ULA needs to focus on their strengths and be happy to be the backup US launch company. They might not be cost competitive but there is something to be said that it is important to have a safety net launch company if needed. We don't want all our eggs in just one basket. If they move forward then they might be able to find a good niche not fully covered by SpaceX.

 

[Doug_G]

Triggered an investigation...

Department of Defense opens investigation into ULA launch contracts

 

[glhs272]

Sort of off topic, but it looks like ULA may have dodged a bullet on their launch of the Cygnus yesterday. Some folks comparing this launch to the previous, almost identical launch noticed that the upper stage Centaur burned for almost 90 seconds longer than planned. When looking at the launch replays it appears the Atlas booster shut down early forcing the Centaur to makeup the shortfall. Also appears the de-orbit burn of the centaur didn't go as planned either. It did not land in it's designated area but it did de-orbit. Fortunately, there was a lot of margin on this flight so Cygnus made it to orbit anyway. I suspect we may hear more about this tomorrow.

However, considering the recent political scrutiny ULA has been under recently this may turn out to still hurt them. It's harder for them to say "we're reliable" and are justified in our higher prices if their rockets are having anomalies.

Spaceflight is hard. Even for ULA.

 

[Grendal]

Also off topic for this thread, but there was an explosion of the Proton carrying the ExoMars. Luckily it happened after it released the craft.

Did ExoMars Narrowly Escape a Launch Disaster?

Spaceflight is hard. Even for the Russian rocket program, especially the Proton rocket which has had a lot of failures.

 

[glhs272]

Sort of off topic, but it looks like ULA may have dodged a bullet on their launch of the Cygnus yesterday. Some folks comparing this launch to the previous, almost identical launch noticed that the upper stage Centaur burned for almost 90 seconds longer than planned. When looking at the launch replays it appears the Atlas booster shut down early forcing the Centaur to makeup the shortfall. Also appears the de-orbit burn of the centaur didn't go as planned either. It did not land in it's designated area but it did de-orbit. Fortunately, there was a lot of margin on this flight so Cygnus made it to orbit anyway. I suspect we may hear more about this tomorrow.

However, considering the recent political scrutiny ULA has been under recently this may turn out to still hurt them. It's harder for them to say "we're reliable" and are justified in our higher prices if their rockets are having anomalies.

Spaceflight is hard. Even for ULA.

Yep. ULA has publicly acknowledged the issue.
Atlas 5 rocket forced to improvise during Tuesday’s climb to orbit – Spaceflight Now

 

[Grendal]

Yep. ULA has publicly acknowledged the issue.
Atlas 5 rocket forced to improvise during Tuesday’s climb to orbit – Spaceflight Now

Nicely done. It's a good thing the Centaur stage had the extra boost to compensate for the shortfall. The comments point out that ULA had their political cronies attack SpaceX over their failure. The same commenter noted that it was unlikely that SpaceX would pull the same shenanigans.

Personally, I'm not against ULA except that they act like a bully when it suits their agenda. Having a secondary launch company available is a good thing for America. I can't help but believe it is good for SpaceX to have another launch company to compete against to keep them on their toes.

 

[ohmman]

I can't help but believe it is good for SpaceX to have another launch company to compete against to keep them on their toes.

I agree, I just wish the competitor was in the same ballpark from a technical and cost perspective. Nobody's breathing down SpaceX's neck once you remove the political bias towards ULA.

 

[chickensevil]

I agree, I just wish the competitor was in the same ballpark from a technical and cost perspective. Nobody's breathing down SpaceX's neck once you remove the political bias towards ULA.

Maybe BlueOrigin in a few years will provide that competition? Cause ULA is likely to die off if they can't keep enough contracts going to sustain their people.

 

[Bgarret]

Gotta say...have a bit of a crush on Ms. Shotwell, CEO...."Basket of flowers - nice"

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/b...-the-future-of-space-launching.html?ana=yahoo