Switching circuits from/to PW covered panel

[dotbombjoe]

So, when I had my 2 PWs installed, I ended up putting my entire house on the covered panel...including my AC units and my tesla wall charger. My landscaping will be wrapping up in the next few months and that includes a pool. I don't think I can fit the pool into the PW panel, at least not without removing something else. I'm thinking I would rather keep the pool going over the AC.

Does anyone know how easy/difficult it may be for the electrician to swap the pool & the AC so the pool is covered by the powerful and the AC is only fed by the grid? I wouldn't think it's a big deal but I also don't know what I don't know.

 

[Janus]

Do you have the covered vs. not covered breaker boxes near each other? At minimum, there's a labor+wire cost that'll be based on that distance.

 

[dotbombjoe]

Do you have the covered vs. not covered breaker boxes near each other? At minimum, there's a labor+wire cost that'll be based on that distance.

Yeah, they are basically behind each other...uncovered panel is on the exterior wall of the garage, PW panel is basically the same place but on the interior wall...so the distance is negligible. I just wasn't sure if there was any special complexity to doing it that may not be obvious to someone that isn't terribly familiar with these things but it sounds like it really shouldn't be a big deal. Great, that is good news, thanks!

I'll have to remember to remove the special equipment they have on the AC units to reduce their initial draw too but I can't imagine that is a big deal either.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

@dotbombjoe The PW panel connected to the gateways are very nice, well spec’d units. Initially after my installation I thought my panel was almost full until I learned about “quad” breakers. The 30A double pole breakers can be swapped for quad breakers to allow addition 240V circuits for your pool.

I did get my landscape work done before PW & solar. Likewise the landscape occupies a good number slots in the PW panel. For your application, it may be a good idea to add a sub panel for all the landscape features.

If the conduit to the service panel is two inches or larger or a gutter box, it will be straightforward to not backup your A/C because you should have conduit fill available to relocate the A/C breaker. On the flip side, it is very likely they spliced the A/C wires already to extend to the PW panel... here your electrician can undo what was done. You can guarantee your installer used a splice as it is impractical to replace A/C wires to maintain a continuous wire run.

I’d leave the the equipment intact to reduce current draw. The benefit is the house lights won’t dim when the A/C motors kick on.

I am not sure why you wish to put the pool pump in the PW panel instead of A/C. I believe you are unaware that you can put the pool pump circuit in the service panel and add a CT current transformer connected to the gateway. Here the PW system will detect power draw from the pool and will “offset” its use with stored energy (if rate arbitrage was the goal) when the grid is working. During a power outage the pool won’t operate though.

 

[dotbombjoe]

@dotbombjoe The PW panel connected to the gateways are very nice, well spec’d units. Initially after my installation I thought my panel was almost full until I learned about “quad” breakers. The 30A double pole breakers can be swapped for quad breakers to allow addition 240V circuits for your pool.

I did get my landscape work done before PW & solar. Likewise the landscape occupies a good number slots in the PW panel. For your application, it may be a good idea to add a sub panel for all the landscape features.

Yeah, we are definitely having a sub-panel put in (near the pool equipment), I was just hoping that could be wired into the PW panel.

The PW panel feeds the entire house at the moment and I don't think there is much/any room left in the panel so I've been assuming something would have to be moved out to accommodate the pool sub panel.

If the conduit to the service panel is two inches or larger or a gutter box, it will be straightforward to not backup your A/C because you should have conduit fill available to relocate the A/C breaker. On the flip side, it is very likely they spliced the A/C wires already to extend to the PW panel... here your electrician can undo what was done. You can guarantee your installer used a splice as it is impractical to replace A/C wires to maintain a continuous wire run.

I’d leave the the equipment intact to reduce current draw. The benefit is the house lights won’t dim when the A/C motors kick on.

I'll have to go down to the garage and take some pics of the setup. I'm pretty sure that it should be as easy as it can be given the circumstances. Good to know re: leaving the extra equipment on the AC units -- I was assuming there was a reason they should be removed but sounds like you gave me a reason to keep them in place.

I am not sure why you wish to put the pool pump in the PW panel instead of A/C. I believe you are unaware that you can put the pool pump circuit in the service panel and add a CT current transformer connected to the gateway. Here the PW system will detect power draw from the pool and will “offset” its use with stored energy (if rate arbitrage was the goal) when the grid is working. During a power outage the pool won’t operate though.

Basically, we rarely use the AC and our peak hours, 4-9 aren't big issues for us re: AC. When we do run it, it's primarily because it never cooled down that night so it's more about running it overnight. We can hop in the pool from 4-9 to cool off! ;-)

Plus, in the case of an extended outage, I'd much rather ensure the pool equipment is running and can be used safely vs having the AC. If I could have both of them covered, that'd be ideal.

I guess we'll see what the electrician the landscaper has is capable of...

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I'll have to go down to the garage and take some pics of the setup. I'm pretty sure that it should be as easy as it can be given the circumstances.

I guess we'll see what the electrician the landscaper has is capable of...

@dotbombjoe Please post the picture of PW panel. Here is a link of the quad breakers. Eaton - Quad Breakers - Circuit Breakers - The Home Depot. Keep in mind you would want a common trip version for your pool subpanel. The photos are not accurate on the website between the common/independent trip. Special order item to further discourage the electrician.

 

[dotbombjoe]

Here it is... So you're suggesting we could swap out a few of the current breakers for these quad units and free up some space?

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Here it is... So you're suggesting we could swap out a few of the current breakers for these quad units and free up some space?

@dotbombjoe Wow, your panel is a work of art. Indeed quite full. I am a little surprised you decided to put everything into the panel. I would say your panel is indeed maxed out.

Disregarding the "CAUTION Do not add loads" polyester label. You have few options.

1. Find that security bit, open up the Tesla charger and turn down your Tesla charger to 40A. Replace the 60A breaker with a 50A quadplex. This compromises your EV charging.
2. Add a subpanel for your generation loads. This will free up your panel and allow you to add for solar or PWs in the future. You may have to extend the CTs which have been already cut to length.
3. Consider removing your EV charging off the PW panel. Tesla electrician said EV charging will deplete the PWs. The charge load is 11kW which exceeds 10kW capability for outages. If you are charging your EV during peak periods, then ignore this particular recommendation.

I recommend anyone reading this that has planned remodels or landscape work like yours to add loads prior to having an appointment with Tesla. At minimum, drop in the circuit breaker even though nothing is connected to it, so everything is accounted for upfront to avoid costly changes (similar to change orders). Tesla designs based upon photo evidence and never pads their designs for future loads or generation sources.

I hope this helps.

 

[dotbombjoe]

Ok, so maybe I wasn't crazy after all and this is going to be a mini-project of sorts.

One thing is that I'm pretty certain I will need to add more solar. I'm pretty much breakeven at true-up right now, and that's without everything for the landscaping/pool and I intend to replace the wife's car with a model Y or X within the next 2 years...and she drives a lot more than me. Of course, I could start charging at the supercharger down the street, but that sounds like a PITA. I was going to wait a year and see how much the pool/landscaping adds to the bill and then make a decision on adding solar.

Anyway, if I were end up wanting to add more solar, would I be correct that option #2 is the best route to prep for that while solving my immediate need to free up space in the panel?

 

[Musterion]

Yes I think option 2 is the best choice. That is what Tesla designed for my installation. They installed a new 200 amp generation panel containing 4x 30 amp breakers for the Powerwalls and relocated 80 amp breaker for existing solar. They used an Eaton panel that looks just like yours but with 12 rather than 20 spaces. If you did the same, it looks like such a panel would fit nicely to right of your existing panel and blend in well. You would only need to additionally move the solar CTs with the solar feed to the new panel. Assuming the 2nd set of load terminals in your gateway is empty now, this is where the new generation panel would connect and you can optionally move over the two PW circuits to gen panel to gain more space in your main panel, and still have extra solar space for future in gen panel.