Tesla autopilot HW3

[S4WRXTTCS]

Actually, no 2017 cars have been upgraded to AP3 so that would be news. So far, only S & X with AP2.5 and MCU2 (built since March 2018) have been upgraded.

And, some Model 3's have as well which are also HW2.5+AP2.

But, has anyone gone through the HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade without any issues at all?

There seems to be a high percentage of "issues"

Things like the AP SW crashing, and having to take it back to the service center.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

@S4WRXTTCS

I beleive I just did, so I guess I can.

Look. Here’s the point: In theory anything can happen. But in reality @diplomat33 ’s assertion that Tesla is doing things to prioritize HW3 upgrades for older cars is not supported by anything — and definitely not by the SC message pictured in this thread.

In the meanwhile, in reality Tesla started HW3 upgrades from the latest and greatest.

Diplomat is just stating the message from Tesla.

The message from Tesla is the upgrades will happen according to VIN, and that is by definition by data of Mfg.

Reading it in any other manner than how it's exactly written is injecting your own bias into it.

Sure we both know its a lie, but that's our bias.

We're going to be right, but we can't deny people who want to believe.

 

[electronblue]

Diplomat is just stating the message from Tesla.

The message from Tesla is the upgrades will happen according to VIN, and that is by definition by data of Mfg.

Reading it in any other manner than how it's exactly written is injecting your own bias into it.

Sure we both know its a lie, but that's our bias.

We're going to be right, but we can't deny people who want to believe.

No, I’m saying Tesla’s message is not saying what @diplomat33 claims it is saying. Frankly I think I’m actually being more fair on Tesla here than he is...

Tesla did not mention any kind of VIN order. They just mentioned the retrofits are based on VIN, which we know they are already today. Your VIN is your ticket to ride (or not). SCs will do it based on whether their database says your VIN is eligible.

Also the message does not mention any mass retrofits at all. In fact I am not even convinced it refers to anything than simply the current situation. Everything it lists is already true of today’s HW3 retrofit situation.

I think @diplomat33 read wildly too much into it this time. The messge simply does not say those things he claims it does.

 

[diplomat33]

No, I’m saying Tesla’s message is not saying what @diplomat33 claims it is saying. Frankly I think I’m actually being more fair on Tesla here than he is...

Tesla did not mention any kind of VIN order. They just mentioned the retrofits are based on VIN, which we know they are already today. Your VIN is your ticket to ride (or not).

Also the message does not mention any mass retrofits at all. In fact I am not even convinced it refers to anything than simply the current situation. Everything it lists is already true of today’s HW3 retrofit situation.

I think @diplomat33 read wildly too much into it this time. The messge simply does not say those things he claims it does.

I never said that Tesla was doing retrofits in chronological VIN order. And the message is saying exactly what I am saying: upgrades will start on the west coast with Model S/X first and move East.

 

[electronblue]

I never said that Tesla was doing retrofits in chronological VIN order. And the message is saying exactly what I am saying: upgrades will start on the west coast with Model S/X first and move East.

This was the claim I protested:

Looks like Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority.

Where does it say Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority? Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 is newer than Model 3.

 

[electronblue]

Let’s face it: @diplomat33 you ended up making it sound like Tesla was doing a ”right thing” here. There is no proof Tesla is trying to do a right thing here (retrofit old cars first), though, and that is why I disagreed.

All proof so far is quite the opposite: that Tesla is trying to prioritize new cars.

 

[diplomat33]

This was the claim I protested:

Where does it say Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority? Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 is newer than Model 3.

it doesn't. But it does say Model S over Model 3. So older Model S would presumably get priority over Model 3, ie Tesla will upgrade AP2 Model S before AP2.5 Model 3. That's what I meant. I did not mean that Tesla would start with older Model S in general, just before Model 3's.

 

[Daniel in SD]

This argument is absurd. If Tesla says they're going to base upgrade priority on VIN then any reasonable person would interpret that to mean they'll give priority to earlier VINs. Not that they're going to use the VIN to determine whether or not you have AP2.5 or not. If they don't do that then their statement was false not misinterpreted.

 

[electronblue]

it doesn't. But it does say Model S over Model 3. So older Model S would presumably get priority over Model 3, ie Tesla will upgrade AP2 Model S before AP2.5 Model 3. That's what I meant. I did not mean that Tesla would start with older Model S in general, just before Model 3's.

But the Model S so far ugpraded is newer than Model 3 by nine months. There are plenty of old Model 3 FSD buyers missing out when newer Model S/X owners get their retrofits. In the meanwhile, all really old FSD owners are without.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

No, I’m saying Tesla’s message is not saying what @diplomat33 claims it is saying. Frankly I think I’m actually being more fair on Tesla here than he is...

Tesla did not mention any kind of VIN order. They just mentioned the retrofits are based on VIN, which we know they are already today. Your VIN is your ticket to ride (or not). SCs will do it based on whether their database says your VIN is eligible.

Also the message does not mention any mass retrofits at all. In fact I am not even convinced it refers to anything than simply the current situation. Everything it lists is already true of today’s HW3 retrofit situation.

I think @diplomat33 read wildly too much into it this time. The messge simply does not say those things he claims it does.

The disagreement started when he said "Looks like Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority"

That's the same impression I got from the message, and my reaction was "Yeah, right!!"

Why did I get that impression? From the information it provided

A VIN rollout is by date of the vehicle because it's an auto-generated work order. So prioritizes older Model S/X vehicles over newer ones in the same way that it gives west coast people priority over east coast people.

 

[electronblue]

This argument is absurd. If Tesla says they're going to base upgrade priority on VIN then any reasonable person would interpret that to mean they'll give priority to earlier VINs. Not that they're going to use the VIN to determine whether or not you have AP2.5 or not. If they don't do that then their statement was false not misinterpreted.

I’m all for holding Tesla to their word, but this time they did not claim VIN order. This was no ”Level 5 no goefence feature complete” moment. Could the message have been better? For sure, but in the end it is a very vague service message, not even an announcement type of thing that clearly had the purpose of asking the customer to ”come back later” with some sembalance of explanation to go with it.

Trust me, Tesla is not about to start HW3 retrofits according to a chronological VIN order. They may well do some VIN-based batches of configurations/locations, and certainly the VIN determines who gets the upgrade added to the outstanding service list at the SC system and when, but that’s about it.

 

[electronblue]

A VIN rollout is by date of the vehicle because it's an auto-generated work order. So it is an attempt at giving older vehicles some priority.

But it doesn’t claim any such thing.

You guys do realize Tesla already TODAY auto-generates work orders for HW3 retrofits based on VIN? This means nothing in terms of chronological order.

That is how people when they go to SC find them added, just like any recall or that type of work. Based on VIN. All of these so far have been for the latest and greatest in Tesla’s fleet: the HW2.5 MCU2 Model S/X from March 2018 onwards.

Where does this idea come from that Tesla claimed some kind of older vehicle priority in the message?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

But it doesn’t claim any such thing.

You guys do realize Tesla already TODAY auto-generates work orders for HW3 retrofits based on VIN? This means nothing in terms of chronological order.

That is how people when they go to SC find them added, just like any recall or that type of work. Based on VIN. All of these so far have been for the latest and greatest in Tesla’s fleet: the HW2.5 MCU2 Model S/X from March 2018 onwards.

Where does this idea come from that Tesla claimed some kind of older vehicle priority in the message?

In the message it says "first, again by VIN"

So it's an auto-generated work order by VIN, and location.

So a very literal interpretation is that an HW2 Model S owner in Seattle would have an earlier work-order than a HW2.5 owner in Seattle.

Now we know that's unlikely, but that is what the message conveys whether by design or accident.

 

[diplomat33]

Where does this idea come from that Tesla claimed some kind of older vehicle priority in the message?

because it says Model S before Model 3. Last time I checked, an AP2 Model S is older than a Model 3.

 

[electronblue]

because it says Model S before Model 3. Last time I checked, an AP2 Model S is older than a Model 3.

Or the simpler explanation: It just means the Model S/X roll-out starts first (which it already did for Model S cars newer than Model 3) and Model 3 is next, but without any claims to how far along or how widely available Model S/X retrofit is at that stage. Which would, again, fit the exact current situation...

But luckily this one will be easy enough to check: Will retrofits start first on Model 3 or on AP2 Model S...

 

[diplomat33]

Or the simpler explanation: It just means the Model S/X roll-out starts first (which it already did for Model S cars newer than Model 3) and Model 3 is next, but without any claims to how far along or how widely available Model S/X retrofit is at that stage. Which would, again, fit the exact current situation...

But luckily this one will be easy enough to check: Will retrofits start first on Model 3 or on AP2 Model S...

Just a guess but I think Tesla will do Model S AP2.5 first, then Model S AP2 then Model 3.

 

[nepenthe]

@S4WRXTTCS

I beleive I just did, so I guess I can.

Look. Here’s the point: In theory anything can happen. But in reality @diplomat33 ’s assertion that Tesla is doing things to prioritize HW3 upgrades for older cars is not supported by anything — and definitely not by the SC message pictured in this thread.

In the meanwhile, in reality Tesla started HW3 upgrades from the latest and greatest.

Seems you are a bit emotionally invested in this not being a fair or even a logical process - the mass HW3 rollout.

From my perspective, both in relation to what we've heard Elon and or Tesla say, that the mass HW3 rollout program has not yet begun. Indeed, some people have had HW3 upgrades done while in for services otherwise unrelated and now we have this message from a Service Center. From here if a HW3 rollout begins, what seems logical would be to send out X number of HW3 units based off of production quantities, or X % in relation to number of customers within each service center area and then schedule HW3 upgrades; when it does not otherwise interfere with other more pertinent services. Yes, probably some in for other services, might get upgraded at this time. Though otherwise, wouldn't it seem reasonable, that some roll-out plan will exist, or do you really think they'll just pick at random while also just doing the "easiest" first? Seems more likely, they'll schedule in what they can, to fill out their availability, while placing a priority on those who purchased sooner than others. Could that mean one day, they have room in the schedule to do an easy upgrade in lieu of a hard one? Sure, why not? From Tesla's perspective, there's little difference in an easy or hard job right? It's just a matter of time availability for service center techs, since these subset of vehicles will have to be upgraded at some point regardless. This is my hypothesis at least.

 

[electronblue]

In the message it says "first, again by VIN"

So it's an auto-generated work order by VIN, and location.

So a very literal interpretation is that an HW2 Model S owner in Seattle would have an earlier work-order than a HW2.5 owner in Seattle.

Now we know that's unlikely, but that is what the message conveys whether by design or accident.

Well, it doesn’t convey that to me. It talks of ”VIN rollout” which is standard language for recall type of situations that happen by VIN batches, VIN ranges. The message in no way defines what those ranges are.

Maybe I’ve also been following Tesla’s comments on this one too closely but chronological order is not the sentiment I got here. The VIN here is the determining factor on whether or not your car is eligible at the SC. That is what the SC is trying to convey again in my view. VIN rollout, like any recall, means the ”recall” event becomes available to cars based on VIN batches. For example: when parts for that batch become available.

And, look, I’m trying to be fair on Tesla here too. So this is not just me saying ”even if Tesla said that, one shouldn’t read it literally because it rarely if ever is true like that”. I just really don’t think the message claims any old car / old VIN priority at all. The VIN here refers to the fact that the VIN determines when you get the upgrade, but it does not specify any order of priority for VINs.

 

[electronblue]

Seems you are a bit emotionally invested in this not being a fair or even a logical process - the mass HW3 rollout.

From my perspective, both in relation to what we've heard Elon and or Tesla say, that the mass HW3 rollout program has not yet begun. Indeed, some people have had HW3 upgrades done while in for services otherwise unrelated and now we have this message from a Service Center. From here if a HW3 rollout begins, what seems logical would be to send out X number of HW3 units based off of production quantities, or X % in relation to number of customers within each service center area and then schedule HW3 upgrades; when it does not otherwise interfere with other more pertinent services. Yes, probably some in for other services, might get upgraded at this time. Though otherwise, wouldn't it seem reasonable, that some roll-out plan will exist, or do you really think they'll just pick at random while also just doing the "easiest" first? Seems more likely, they'll schedule in what they can, to fill out their availability, while placing a priority on those who purchased sooner than others. Could that mean one day, they have room in the schedule to do an easy upgrade in lieu of a hard one? Sure, why not? From Tesla's perspective, there's little difference in an easy or hard job right? It's just a matter of time availability for service center techs, since these subset of vehicles will have to be upgraded at some point regardless. This is my hypothesis at least.

I’m emotionally invested in one thing: accurate information.

I think @diplomat33 posted a falsehood when he claimed Tesla’s message somehow portrays older Model S/X cars as having retrofit priority. The message simply does no such thing.

 

[Routybouty]

This is a really boring argument, hard to believe its lasted this many messages.