i would think this would require a gateway and charger connected to the generation panel so it could be disconnected by utility....
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Tesla leaks bidirectional charging
- Thread starter CrazyRabbit
- Start date
GenSao
Member
I see there are a couple options depending on how Tesla implements the hardware.
1) The Tesla car (V2G) can be treated like a regular grid tied solar inverter with no gateway required. The V2G application would need to comply with the current 1741 SA standard. Perhaps the V3 wall connector with wifi or the car alone has the needed hardware for this to work and will be UL 1741 SA certified in the future. Just the matter of installing the software and the appropriate tests and certification.
2) The Tesla car is connected with an existing Powerwall and gateway installation for backup power. The car can be used as a second tier battery. The car could soak up excess solar when the Powerewalls are full in a backup (or in a strict self-consumption) mode. Inversely, if the Powerwalls are nearly empty in a backup situation, the car could provide power until the Powerwalls can charge off of solar again.
Note, there already exists a basic relationship between the car and the Powerwalls via Vehicle Charging During Power Outage. I would like this to be expanded to automate charging the car with excess solar when off grid or during off peak rates while grid-tied.
In either case, the car can be used to supplement the grid and can work together with other batteries (Powerwalls) to act as a virtual power plant. This could be used to mitigate peak period energy costs. The home/car owner may choose to opt into such programs if the price is right.
The only technical limitations would be to ensure the circuit breaker for the EV and all other power sources in the electrical panel are compliant with NEC 705.12(B)(2)(3)(b) and the electric meter is bi-directional.
1) The Tesla car (V2G) can be treated like a regular grid tied solar inverter with no gateway required. The V2G application would need to comply with the current 1741 SA standard. Perhaps the V3 wall connector with wifi or the car alone has the needed hardware for this to work and will be UL 1741 SA certified in the future. Just the matter of installing the software and the appropriate tests and certification.
2) The Tesla car is connected with an existing Powerwall and gateway installation for backup power. The car can be used as a second tier battery. The car could soak up excess solar when the Powerewalls are full in a backup (or in a strict self-consumption) mode. Inversely, if the Powerwalls are nearly empty in a backup situation, the car could provide power until the Powerwalls can charge off of solar again.
Note, there already exists a basic relationship between the car and the Powerwalls via Vehicle Charging During Power Outage. I would like this to be expanded to automate charging the car with excess solar when off grid or during off peak rates while grid-tied.
In either case, the car can be used to supplement the grid and can work together with other batteries (Powerwalls) to act as a virtual power plant. This could be used to mitigate peak period energy costs. The home/car owner may choose to opt into such programs if the price is right.
The only technical limitations would be to ensure the circuit breaker for the EV and all other power sources in the electrical panel are compliant with NEC 705.12(B)(2)(3)(b) and the electric meter is bi-directional.
“Leaks” is an interesting choice of words. 
(It wasn’t leaked. An engineer discovered it during a teardown. And, more recently, another engineer has claimed that the first engineer misinterpreted what he found, and that the capability does not in fact exist. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
(It wasn’t leaked. An engineer discovered it during a teardown. And, more recently, another engineer has claimed that the first engineer misinterpreted what he found, and that the capability does not in fact exist. So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
yes, panels need to be sized to code, we are in violent agreement. I think some states/jurisdictions no longer require lockable generation disconnect switches, but mine does. So i think the charger would need to be wired to the generation panel. I think I'm going to request that they reserve "space" in the generation panel bidirectional charger.
That is what I was thinking - definitely pushing a viewpoint. And I am particularly unconvinced by the argument that it is necessary or even advisable to "future-proof now before it's too late" as they put it.
There are certainly some good arguments for the benefits of this technology, though I am overall unconvinced - at least in the US - that the utility/regulatory schemes that develop will end up providing much concrete financial benefit. I expect the rules will tend to prohibit or at least discourage (by establishing very low rates for exported energy) price arbitrage for V2G schemes. There can still be benefits in terms of self sufficiency and backup/outage protection, but I am more doubtful about the financial side.
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